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Solium Infernum remake

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,606
Seriously, what the fuck. Anything that reduces the paranoia factor of this game is antithetical to its most basic principles. Imagine knowing from the get-go that one of these assholes started with 3 deceit.

What's wrong with just leaving the option for full customisation open????
Indeed. I do get they want to have presets for new players, who won't have any knowledge how to make their own Archfiends, but there is no reason whatsoever not to have the kind of free-form avatar creation from the original, including special powers they mention.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,230
Seriously, what the fuck. Anything that reduces the paranoia factor of this game is antithetical to its most basic principles. Imagine knowing from the get-go that one of these assholes started with 3 deceit.
What's wrong with 3 deceit? The real fun begins with ritual masking.

BTW they are right that CHA is OP.
I wonder if this would be improved by increasing number of basic order slot to 3. Or perhaps there should be a free autodraw of tribute cards, and order slots would be used only for getting extra cards.
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,225
Location
Poland
Seriously, what the fuck. Anything that reduces the paranoia factor of this game is antithetical to its most basic principles. Imagine knowing from the get-go that one of these assholes started with 3 deceit.
What's wrong with 3 deceit? The real fun begins with ritual masking.

BTW they are right that CHA is OP.
I wonder if this would be improved by increasing number of basic order slot to 3. Or perhaps there should be a free autodraw of tribute cards, and order slots would be used only for getting extra cards.

Charisma nerf/remake was obvious but pre gen leaders are a bad idea.

Maybe they will let us pick stat blocks and any avatar, that makes actual sense.
 

chuft

Augur
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
496
Hope they strengthen the AI. I used to play quite a bit of this single player.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,714
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Seriously, what the fuck. Anything that reduces the paranoia factor of this game is antithetical to its most basic principles. Imagine knowing from the get-go that one of these assholes started with 3 deceit.
What's wrong with 3 deceit? The real fun begins with ritual masking.

BTW they are right that CHA is OP.
I wonder if this would be improved by increasing number of basic order slot to 3. Or perhaps there should be a free autodraw of tribute cards, and order slots would be used only for getting extra cards.

Charisma nerf/remake was obvious but pre gen leaders are a bad idea.

Maybe they will let us pick stat blocks and any avatar, that makes actual sense.
Have any of you played Armello? You should, first because it's a great game and second because it shows part of the rationale they seem to be aiming for here. In Armello you have pre-defined characters but aside from some fixed characteristics, they can be pretty heavily customized. Knowing who you're going against does not necessarily inform what their main strat will be.
 
Last edited:

chuft

Augur
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
496
LOL hated that game. Was happy when I sold it. Semi-co-ops are inherently flawed, whoever is losing tends to throw the game because everyone losing is better than them losing and someone else winning. The assassination and mortality chit mechanics ensured randomness played a huge hand in the outcome.

The history was great, the gameplay deeply flawed.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,343
Location
Copenhagen
You had to play it like a pseudo roleplaying game, basically. If everyone just sat there trying to game the mechanics, I agree, it wasn't a great game. But as a setup for Roman Senator Simulator, it was incredibly fun.
 

chuft

Augur
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
496
Yes I can see it being fun with the right people. But all I ever found were the "for those who thought Diplomacy was too tame" cut-throat players. So it goes.
 

chuft

Augur
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
496
I don't think Solium Infernum is semi-co-op, but it's been a long time since I played.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,330
Location
Djibouti
oh you were talking about some shitty game nobody heard about i thought you were referring to si

i absolve you of your sins
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,606
Have any of you played Armello? You should, first because it's a great game and second because it shows part of the rationale they seem to be aiming for here. In Armello you have pre-defined characters but aside from some fixed characteristics, they can be pretty heavily customized. Knowing who you're going against does not necessarily inform what their main strat will be.
It still means giving out information you shouldn't have (in a game where information is king) and indirectly weakening the Prophecy path as a result, even if you can tilt your build at later stages of the game.

I get they want to make presets for new players and that's fine, but there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to not allow full customization also (including special powers and whatever else they meant).
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
657
Wow, there is absolutely nothing left of the beautifully strange aesthetic of the original game. Everything looks so generic and uninspired. The art of the original game oozed sinister atmosphere. Especially the portraits of this remake look ridiculous, comicesque and plastic-like. Nothing like the menacing and uncanny dark imagery of the original game.
 

Beowulf

Arcane
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
1,957
The 2D illustrations are really good. It's the 3D models everywhere else that sucks.
Original Solium Infernum, while unique, was inconsistent in its art; here all of the 2D drawings were made by the same artists, so it is more coherent.
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
657
For me the remake looks like a standard WOW-version of hell. Here everything is presented blatantly and directly, as if these abominations were just your typical army, maybe of a different biological order and of diffent colors, but still quite usual. The atmosphere of the original game on the other hand lived through its depictions that were mere analogies. Absolute evil cannot be displayed directly, only in ways of metaphor and parable. That made the whole imagery quite powerful, and the overall experience almost mythic.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,606
Wow, there is absolutely nothing left of the beautifully strange aesthetic of the original game. Everything looks so generic and uninspired. The art of the original game oozed sinister atmosphere. Especially the portraits of this remake look ridiculous, comicesque and plastic-like. Nothing like the menacing and uncanny dark imagery of the original game.
No surprise there? It would be strange to have the aesthetic similar to the original without having the original artist(s) onboard. But I don't agree that all art in the remake is bad. There are some good pieces in there (mainly 2D art). It looks competent at the very least. My main complaint is that ash looks too much like snow for my taste (althought I do like snow as such), but I guess it is difficult to fine-tune this.

The atmosphere of the original game on the other hand lived through its depictions that were mere analogies. Absolute evil cannot be displayed directly, only in ways of metaphor and parable. That made the whole imagery quite powerful, and the overall experience almost mythic.
Like "Planar Lock"? Yeah, nothing was displayed directly, it was all a metaphor and parable:

solium-infernum-screenshot-3_1_2019-6_02_21-pm_cropped.png


A literal fucking lock.


Let's be real here - it wasn't all sunshine and roses.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
9,755
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
I think some of the new art looks pretty good. I think the old artstyle was better, but the new isn't terrible. It is a bit on the generic side though. Especially the ui and 3d graphics look very boring.

I haven't looked at the video closely (I don't like the youtuber), only mechanical difference I instantly noticed was that they seem to have removed the random +1d3 during combat.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,606
Apparently the demo of Solium Infernum is up on Steam. No idea how long it will be up, so if any of you wants to see it, it would be best to do so now.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Apparently the demo of Solium Infernum is up on Steam. No idea how long it will be up, so if any of you wants to see it, it would be best to do so now.
Decided to brave it a little bit:
You no longer get to create an archfiend. There are 7 premades, each of which has a fixed statline, a unique ritual/diplomacy action, fixed hq and starting legion stats. You can customize them a little bit, as you get 3 relic slots, which can be filled with artifacts (strongest ones take all 3 slots, weakest take 1 slot). You also see your opponents choice of relics it seems, so there's no confusion or information asymmetry as the game begins. Also makes things like taking pbtt strange, it's never going to happen if you can't bluff you don't have it.
Charisma seems to no longer scale resources gained, and all stats give +1 order at 4. You also can increase your rank as the game goes on, by spending prestige.

Didn't look too deeply, but combat seems unchanged except no random chance, bazaar seems the same, diplomacy seems the same, same regent system with turn order. I don't really like the new ui, but possibly it would grow on me.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,606
You no longer get to create an archfiend. There are 7 premades, each of which has a fixed statline, a unique ritual/diplomacy action, fixed hq and starting legion stats.
On the plus side:

1) The stats are pretty low (1 is the lowest, 2 is the highest), so there might be a possibility to change your stats over time.
2) You get at least two archfiends of each "class" (Conqueror, Sorcerer and Manipulator. Only one Duellist at the moment).

You also see your opponents choice of relics it seems, so there's no confusion or information asymmetry as the game begins. Also makes things like taking pbtt strange, it's never going to happen if you can't bluff you don't have it.
I don't think this is true. Praetors, artifacts, manuscripts, vault, ritual table and stats are all hidden in-game. The things that are fixed are the starting stats, unique abilities (related to diplomacy and rituals), legions and strongholds. So it is not that bad, all things considered.

Charisma seems to no longer scale resources gained, and all stats give +1 order at 4. You also can increase your rank as the game goes on, by spending prestige.
I think this is a good change.

Didn't look too deeply, but combat seems unchanged except no random chance
On one hand I understand they want to make combat predictable stats-wise (there are other unknown factors that are going impact it), but a bit of luck breaking the potential stalemate (or turning victory into defeat) is something I would like to have so you'd be required to hedge your bets just in case the worst case scenario happens.

I don't really like the new ui, but possibly it would grow on me.
The UI could use some refinement (I was a bit lost when trying to look for certain functions). In particular I dislike how the flavour text is white on black. I think having a stylized white parchment against the current black background would help to bring text to attention and make it look nicer at the same time.

To sum it all up - looks like a decent approach. Even with the changes.

Oh, a word of warning: the game is slightly woke. Some Archfiends identify as male (Astaroth, Mammon, Belial), some as female (Lilith, Erzsebet) and some as "they" (Andromalius, Murmur). The easiest way to spot is by checking the titles (baron, baroness and baronex). I thought "Baronex" was some sort of ancient-stylized word, but after looking at the Steam forums I accidentally learned it is just "gender neutral" shit and some idiot was already complaining there are not enough women Archfiends.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
12,531
Location
Eastern block
Wow, there is absolutely nothing left of the beautifully strange aesthetic of the original game. Everything looks so generic and uninspired. The art of the original game oozed sinister atmosphere. Especially the portraits of this remake look ridiculous, comicesque and plastic-like. Nothing like the menacing and uncanny dark imagery of the original game.

Yes

I never played the original, but I had the same impression like you

These times are the death of style. Everything must be plastic and soulless
 

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