Some retarded Ultima 5 questions

[Stabwound]

I'm trying to play Ultima 5 again after giving up the first time from burnout as I'd played U4 through to completion and started U5 directly after.

So anyway, I have some questions.

1) Is there some way to not have to adventure in darkness with 1 square of light around you? I find myself almost always stuck in darkness and having to sleep forever so it's light, and then the light lasts about 5 minutes of real life time and it's back to black again. Do you just have to keep using torches/light spell? This seems extremely annoying and made me wonder if there was something wrong with my copy of the game (GOG version) as it seems like I'm spending 75% of the time in darkness..

Edit: I see now that you can take torches from walls and they automatically respawn. But when I take them, they don't get added to my torch count, huh?

2) In Ultima 4 almost all of the quests required you to talk to people and say a certain keyword in order to discover more keywords that you could say to other people and soforth. If you missed a small detail it would be almost impossible to complete the game without backtracking and talking to every person again.

Ultima 5 is much, much more complex with the character schedules meaning they're not always in the same spots, and with much more text and dialogue keywords. Is it as bad as U4 where you will hit a brick wall if you miss a certain dialogue keyword/tree? Do some of the quests allow for multiple solutions?

3) The first time I played U5 I found a Magic Axe about 10 minutes into the game which made the combat trivial. Would anyone recommend intentionally gimping yourself by not using Magic Axes or should I just use them anyway? It seems kind of lame to be able to just stand stationary and hit monsters all over the map; even worse that I found the axe so early in the game.

4) Would anyone recommend skipping U5 and going for the Lazarus remake instead? I know it gets a ton of praise here and elsewhere so I wonder if I'm doing myself a disservice by playing the original instead of the remake. I actually really like the original's graphics and it has that 80's charm. The one thing I could do without is the dialogue system that makes it kind of easy to accidentally miss out on a keyword. I do love having to take notes, though. "Bob says his friend Ted in Moonglow knows about glass weapons" or whatever. But going back to question 2, I'm worried that I'll miss some obscure dialogue keyword and be stuck in the massive world with no idea what I missed.

Excellent game, anyway. Hard to believe it was released in '88 and it's about damn time I played it.

 

[Jaesun]

1. You are probably in a forest. It is very hard to see in a forest.
2. You are taking careful notes right?
3. Play however you want to play.
4. You should play and finish the original and then play Lazarus. You could then see how much a fucking excellent job they did in re-creating (as much as is possible in the DS engine) Ultima V. The expanded dialogues are also fantastic.

 

[Aldebaran]

The magic axe isn't very game breaking since you can only get one or two easily and quite a few maps have walls that you can't fire over. The one thing that I would suggest avoiding is obtaining Lord British's Crown early, as the task is very simple and renders most encounters pointless. Dragons lose their most nerve wracking ability, the Daemons that the dragons could normally summon also lose their most powerful ability, Reapers might as well be inanimate trees, and the insect swarm that appears on a Gazer's death becomes more dangerous than the Gazer itself.

I suppose you could simply grab the crown and then never use it until--but, no. The temptation is too great for mere mortals: inevitably, the Crown seduces all.

 

[SinVraal]

If played without a walkthrough, you should be prepared to take precise notes. Every conversation, every hint, every hint of a hint, every password, keyword, what the person does for a living, maps, mantras, powerwords, etc.

So, that said getting the crown without knowing what how to do so should take quite a while.

Without abuse of the save/load function at the few static treasure chests, getting a magic axe israre enough. There is an equal chance of pulling a Magic Bow or Magic Shield. And again, by the time you find those chests and a way to open the door (without a walkthrough) a magic item is deserved.

If I could save you just a bit of grief: Don't follow in the footsteps of British's expedition into the underworld until you discover the power word of the dungeon closest to the place they entered the Underworld or you have an alternate way out of the Underworld .....

 

[Bruticis]

Another vote for playing Laz when you finish. I avoid fan remakes like the plague but hot damn Lazarus is a great game.

 

[Luzur]

well you can (not sure i remember this correctly) delete a file in the directory somewhere that disables the fog.

 

[MMXI]

1) Is there some way to not have to adventure in darkness with 1 square of light around you? I find myself almost always stuck in darkness and having to sleep forever so it's light, and then the light lasts about 5 minutes of real life time and it's back to black again. Do you just have to keep using torches/light spell? This seems extremely annoying and made me wonder if there was something wrong with my copy of the game (GOG version) as it seems like I'm spending 75% of the time in darkness..

Edit: I see now that you can take torches from walls and they automatically respawn. But when I take them, they don't get added to my torch count, huh?

Nothing is wrong with your game. This is just what night travel is like. You can use a torch or a light spell, or you could even use a great light spell (requires a mandrake root) to increase your visual range even further. Otherwise, don't travel at night. Or travel using moon gates at night. Once you get the magic carpet you shouldn't have much trouble getting from one place to another before the sun sets.

2) In Ultima 4 almost all of the quests required you to talk to people and say a certain keyword in order to discover more keywords that you could say to other people and soforth. If you missed a small detail it would be almost impossible to complete the game without backtracking and talking to every person again.

Ultima 5 is much, much more complex with the character schedules meaning they're not always in the same spots, and with much more text and dialogue keywords. Is it as bad as U4 where you will hit a brick wall if you miss a certain dialogue keyword/tree? Do some of the quests allow for multiple solutions?

Actually, one great thing about Ultima V is that every single character (including every guard) has a bed. To work out whether you've found every single guy in a particular area just map beds to people. If there seems to be a spare bed lying around, chances are you've missed an NPC. Wait at the bed until the owner comes to sleep and talk to him or her then. Due to technical reasons, if an NPC is on another level of a building when it's time for them to sleep, they won't actually enter your level (the level with their bed on). You'll have to re-enter the level, where you'll find them asleep in their bed. Then just wait next to their bed until they wake up before talking to them.

3) The first time I played U5 I found a Magic Axe about 10 minutes into the game which made the combat trivial. Would anyone recommend intentionally gimping yourself by not using Magic Axes or should I just use them anyway? It seems kind of lame to be able to just stand stationary and hit monsters all over the map; even worse that I found the axe so early in the game.

Magic axes still kind of suck against dragons. You'll need spells to get past the most difficult dungeon rooms (like that one with five dragons in).

4) Would anyone recommend skipping U5 and going for the Lazarus remake instead? I know it gets a ton of praise here and elsewhere so I wonder if I'm doing myself a disservice by playing the original instead of the remake. I actually really like the original's graphics and it has that 80's charm. The one thing I could do without is the dialogue system that makes it kind of easy to accidentally miss out on a keyword. I do love having to take notes, though. "Bob says his friend Ted in Moonglow knows about glass weapons" or whatever. But going back to question 2, I'm worried that I'll miss some obscure dialogue keyword and be stuck in the massive world with no idea what I missed.

No. Play and complete the original Ultima V first.

 

[Stabwound]

Alright, thanks for the advice then. The day/night mechanic is cool, but holy fuck the citizens of Britannia seem to sleep for 18 hours a day in pure darkness.

I read elsewhere that you are able to steal torches without any negative penalty, but even if I steal them they just never show up in my inventory at all. The torch disappears off of the map but it doesn't go into my inventory. Is that intended? Seems very weird.

And yeah I have been keeping a notebook full of notes/clues. It's cool that some of the U4 stuff still applies to U5 (mantras, etc) which cuts out a lot of searching around. I haven't been quite aspie enough to right down everyone's job and conversations but maybe I should do that too.

 

[Infinitron]

well you can (not sure i remember this correctly) delete a file in the directory somewhere that disables the fog.

??? Are you perhaps thinking of Ultima Underworld?

 

[Luzur]

well you can (not sure i remember this correctly) delete a file in the directory somewhere that disables the fog.

??? Are you perhaps thinking of Ultima Underworld?

hmmm...i might be, not sure, been years since i tangled with old Ultima files and whatnot, but i do remember there being a SHADOWS.DAT file or something like it that you can delete to get rid of shadows.

 

[Infinitron]

well you can (not sure i remember this correctly) delete a file in the directory somewhere that disables the fog.

??? Are you perhaps thinking of Ultima Underworld?

hmmm...i might be, not sure, been years since i tangled with old Ultima files and whatnot, but i do remember there being a SHADOWS.DAT file or something like it that you can delete to get rid of shadows.

I think it's SHADES.DAT, and yes, it's Underworld you're talking about

 

[Luzur]

well you can (not sure i remember this correctly) delete a file in the directory somewhere that disables the fog.

??? Are you perhaps thinking of Ultima Underworld?

hmmm...i might be, not sure, been years since i tangled with old Ultima files and whatnot, but i do remember there being a SHADOWS.DAT file or something like it that you can delete to get rid of shadows.

I think it's SHADES.DAT, and yes, it's Underworld you're talking about

well fuck me backwards through a barrel of fun, i think i am.

 

[Stabwound]

Haha, well I was seriously considering that "cheat" but too bad, I guess.

Anyway, what's with the torch thing? Even a FAQ I peaked at tells you to "borrow" the torches from Iolo's shack at the beginning, but doing so does nothing except make them disappear from the screen. I don't actually get the torch in my inventory, it just disappears from the screen.

 

[MMXI]

Haha, well I was seriously considering that "cheat" but too bad, I guess.

Anyway, what's with the torch thing? Even a FAQ I peaked at tells you to "borrow" the torches from Iolo's shack at the beginning, but doing so does nothing except make them disappear from the screen. I don't actually get the torch in my inventory, it just disappears from the screen.

When you borrow torches, you borrow them already lit. This is effectively the same as picking up a torch and lighting it straight away. It doesn't add to the number of unlit torches in your inventory. I think some non-DOS versions of Ultima V may be different though.

 

[SinVraal]

Haha, well I was seriously considering that "cheat" but too bad, I guess.

Anyway, what's with the torch thing? Even a FAQ I peaked at tells you to "borrow" the torches from Iolo's shack at the beginning, but doing so does nothing except make them disappear from the screen. I don't actually get the torch in my inventory, it just disappears from the screen.

Also, there are several tool shops that sell torches. Another good place to get some are from troll and orc loot chests. You can usually find tons of orcs in the mountains near Britain at night. The easiest thing to do is pass time on bridges to encoutner trolls.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO BRO BRO

IF YOU ARE REALLY INTO CRPGS ULTIMA 5 IS A MUST PLAY

TALK TO EVERYONE AND THE BRO TALKING ABOUT BEDS IS SPOT ON IF YOU SEE SOMOENE SLEEPING DURING THE DAY YOU GOTTA TRACK THEM DOWN AT NIGHT

TORCHES ARE NON POPAMOLE LIKE THE BRO ABOVE SAID YOU TAKE A LIT TORCH

IF YOU GOT THROUGH ULTIMA 4 ULTIAM 5 IS PURE BLISS

 

[Stabwound]

Alright, well I think the pre-DOS versions of U5 must actually give you torches into your inventory because more than one FAQ has suggested picking up all torches from the walls. But yeah, the game is awesome, much better than U4. It's cool seeing how the locations change and evolve over time, and how most places are roughly in the same area, some of the knowledge from U4 is still relevant (mantras, etc).

Also thanks for the bed tip. It's pretty amazing from a technological standpoint that in a game from 1988 they had NPCs with unique identities, schedules and their own personal beds and sleep/work patterns. Even though in this case it mostly serves to confuse the player, in my opinion, even though it does make the world feel a little more alive and less static.

 

[SinVraal]

Taking torches (borrowing) is always a good idea because it doesn't cause karma loss and saves you torches for dungeons and underworld.

 

[Stabwound]

This game is quickly becoming one of my favorite CRPGs ever. I really can't wait to get into U7 which I know is supposed to be awesome, but I wanted to do all of the Age of Enlightenment games (4-7) straight. U4 was fun but archaic, U5 is more of a vastly-expanded U4. Kind of like Gothic -> Gothic 2 in terms of advancement.

The only thing that's bothering me about U5 is the whole tracking people down and trying to figure out all of their speech trees. Kind of a pain in the ass.

How is U6? Better/worse than U5?

 

[SinVraal]

If you've never played the games before and don't know the story ... U6 is amazing as far as storyfagging goes. Your mind will = blown. Game play is similar but the UI is different. talking includes portraits. Another great thing about U6 is that you can pretty much use everything in the game right down to that decorative sword on the wall.

 

[Jaesun]

I wanted to do all of the Age of Enlightenment games (4-7) straight. U4 was fun but archaic, U5 is more of a vastly-expanded U4. Kind of like Gothic -> Gothic 2 in terms of advancement.

It is SO very satisfying in that you become an Avatar of the Virtues in U4... and then see them all torn and twisted in U5.

 

[octavius]

This game is quickly becoming one of my favorite CRPGs ever. I really can't wait to get into U7 which I know is supposed to be awesome, but I wanted to do all of the Age of Enlightenment games (4-7) straight. U4 was fun but archaic, U5 is more of a vastly-expanded U4.

I agree U5 is overall much better, although the exploration, and virtues/mantras/shrines part naturally was better/more original in U4. I only played U5 quite recently, while I played U4 back in the days, and I still think U5 is the superior game, in large part due to better combat system and much better encounter design.

The only thing that's bothering me about U5 is the whole tracking people down and trying to figure out all of their speech trees. Kind of a pain in the ass.

It's not a big problem, I think. There are fewer NPCs than in U4, so they are not that hard to track. And the towns/castles are not that big.
Magic Candle 2 was much worse in this regard with it it's bigger towns, all the unoccupied buildings and the NPCs only "exisiting" a few hours per day.

How is U6? Better/worse than U5?

I'm a combatfag, not a storyfag, so for me it's worse. I also found the inventory system clunky and the play area too small and claustrophobic. But once one of the remake projects are finished I guess I'll give it another try.

 

[Stabwound]

It is SO very satisfying in that you become an Avatar of the Virtues in U4... and then see them all torn and twisted in U5.

Yeah, I love it. I really love seeing the towns/citadels evolved over U4 to 5 and like you said, the virtues being perverted by Blackthorne. Just now trying to get myself into the resistance, got a boat, saling around the world, picking up on clues and quests, etc. Just a ton of fun. Such a basic open world game compared to something like Skyrim, but so much more fun. I honestly love keeping my own logbook of clues and stuff. I'm not a fan of drawing maps, but keeping a notepad/pen quest journal I fucking love.

It's crazy how U5 is one of the games that's really surprised me at how well they convey certain things. You really feel like the world is being oppressed by the Shadowlords and Blackthorn and you really want to help them. The overall feeling of the game, when considering that it's 24 years old, is on a level that I've personally not experienced in very many other CRPGs; especially compared to modern ones. Only modern game that comes to mind that does it pretty well is Fallout: NV (just my opinion; don't jump down my neck).

I still feel like the NPC "guess the word" game is the biggest downpoint so far. I wish it had the U6 thing where dialogue keywords are highlighted instead of having to guess at everything that looks like it might be something the NPC wants to discuss. It's not a huge deal, but just a pet peeve. Whatever.

I agree U5 is overall much better, although the exploration, and virtues/mantras/shrines part naturally was better/more original in U4. I only played U5 quite recently, while I played U4 back in the days, and I still think U5 is the superior game, in large part due to better combat system and much better encounter design.

Agreed that the combat is so much better. If only because you can attack diagonally this time. And also because equipment is much expanded with rings, more weapons/armor, much better spell mixing, etc.

I actually find the exploration in U5 pretty damn fun and moreso than U4. Although there aren't as many surprises as you're still in the same world, I still love cruising around the world in my boat and exploring places. Good fun.

I
It's not a big problem, I think. There are fewer NPCs than in U4, so they are not that hard to track. And the towns/castles are not that big.
Magic Candle 2 was much worse in this regard with it it's bigger towns, all the unoccupied buildings and the NPCs only "exisiting" a few hours per day.

I've never played MC2 but the NPCs of U5 are getting to me. Not only because of schedules, but when you run into a guy that obviously has something important to say but you can't figure out exactly what keyword will trigger it. You start typing every word he says and sometimes even that doesn't work, because you need to learn the keyword from a different NPC. I mean, it's not a dealbreaker but you do have to keep some detailed notes.

You're doing yourself a huge disservice by not playing these games. I can't believe I put them off for so long. I did love U3/U4 on NES but they're really just bastardized JRPG versions. I'd recommend starting with U4 and continuing on to U5 so you can see the continuity. I've never played U1-3 and don't really ever plan to, but U3 seems like it could be some basic fun.

 

[SinVraal]

I've never played U1-3 and don't really ever plan to, but U3 seems like it could be some basic fun.

U1-3 are basic, level up dungeon romps. I find that fun in a basic way.

But U4-6 and Wasteland are what blew my mind as a youth. I am reading your posts and loving your response to the game. It's the same way I love reading LPs here and watching LPs on youtube ... to see people's initial reactions to games I've loved for decades.

As for mapping, you shouldn't have to get too crazy in U5 because you can View A Gem to get the layouts. There's only like 1 or 2 spots I can recall where I had to get detailed because of the many pits and ladders the dungeon had.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

[Is Ultima V worth playing] Is it? Why?