Development Info South Park: The Stick of Truth delayed

[Infinitron]

Fuck Rex. Bottom line, it's pretty obvious that the 18 month delivery time isn't as set in stone with Project Eternity as it is with, say, Wasteland 2 (where Brian Fargo has reiterated again and again that everything is perfectly on schedule)

 

[felipepepe]

PE and W2 are all gonna get delayed, with probably a retorichal pool like "You wanna the bugfest game now, with removed content, or a 100% working one in 3 months?".

 

[Mrowak]

Hopefully, unlike the Alpha Protocol delay, Obsidian won't be forced to stop work and sit on the project for 9 months before release, then take the blame for any development issues that they weren't paid to fix.

Irrelevant. It's not like Sega cut 9 months of development - they merely deleyed the publishing date. The product was supposed to be ready on due date, and Obsidian submitted what they had agreed upon. Publisher was not obliged to provide them with extra funding to "fix" issues that weren't supposed to be there in the first place. That Obsidian failed to negotiate a condingency option and were unwilling to work on "fixing" the damn thing for free is their problem and a signal of bad planning.

You're forgetting that Sega demanded a total rewrite of the game and that all of the work Brian Mitsoda put into it be changed, which meant MCA came on board late to rework the game from the ground up on an extremely tight schedule.

First - source. Second - bad planning, regardless? That and bad communication. Sega did not know what Obsidian was really doing (because Obsidian could not put it on paper), so dissatisfied with the initial run, they ordered Obsidian to scrap everything. Sure, it was heartless, but such things happen when the developer does meet the actual expectations of the ordering party. Of course Sega's policy is braindead, but this is pretty a study case on how careful planning and telling the ordered what you are making is important. Lastly, we cannot rule out that Sega was right and what Mitsoda prepared was really subpar - frankly the bits done that Avallone work quite well.

IMO, this is what happened with AP:

What good is planning when your publisher is as capricious as SEGA? Second example: Aliens RPG cancelled when Feargus thought it was almost ready to go out the door by SEGA.

And how do you know it was a bad thing? Maybe it was a bugged mess?

 

[IDtenT]

More like 18 months.

 

[Mrowak]

PE and W2 are all gonna get delayed, with probably a retorichal pool like "You wanna the bugfest game now, with removed content, or a 100% working one in 3 months?".

The problem is that when they run out of funds (money for salaries, technologies, electricity bills, etc.) it's going to be end of it. So they have to spread that 3.7 million (once we deduced Kickstarter and Paypal cuts) over a definite period of time and do it now. If they fail to meet too many deadlines (which in case of Obsidian is notorious) it's going to be end of the project - they won't have enough resources for the "polish".

 

[Roguey]

(where Brian Fargo has reiterated again and again that everything is perfectly on schedule)

https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/265316020938493952

Designing Synth hierarchies for Wasteland 2. Lot of fun.
8:54 PM - 4 Nov 12

Avellone still working there in November (and on a Sunday night no less)? Weren't they supposed to be finished with pre-production in October?

 

[IDtenT]

They'll get a publisher involved. I'm pretty sure I was saying this way back already.

 

[Infinitron]

8:54 PM - 4 Nov 12

Avellone still working there in November (and on a Sunday night no less)? Weren't they supposed to be finished with pre-production in October?[/quote]

Either the preproduction isn't quite over, or the assumption that Avellone was only going to be around for preproduction was false.

 

[Roguey]

Infinitron in the Kickstarter comments section back in early October Urquhart said Avellone was going to "wrap up" his Wasteland 2 duties "within the next few weeks" so it looks like the former.

 

[Infinitron]

In any case, the assumption that a company with multiple revenue streams will just "run out of money" after 18 months, when they've more than tripled their initial Kickstarter goals, isn't a sound one.

 

[k-t]

Why I'm not surprised?

http://www.twitch.tv/obsidian/b/335806140?t=242m10s

 

[Vault Dweller]

In any case, the assumption that a company with multiple revenue streams will just "run out of money" after 18 months...

It's easier than you think. Remember the layoffs in March?

... when they've more than tripled their initial Kickstarter goals, isn't a sound one.

The KS goal is a meaningless and random number. In a world of 10-20 mil budgets and sky-high costs of running studios like Obsidian (Feargus: "Our burn rate is $1 million a month"), 1 mil goal isn't much. Sure, they got 3.7 mil, but that's on paper. After KS takes their cut and the cost of merchandise is subtracted, they'll probably have 2.6-2.8 mil. A fortune for average Joe, a pittance for a studio.

As for the multiple revenue streams, what are they? Bethesda fucked Obsidian with NV - no royalties there. I doubt they get much from NWN2 sales. Not sure about AP and DS3. South Park's delayed, but I don't think it means more money for Obsidian due to THQ's bad financial state. What else do they have in development?

 

[Infinitron]

After KS takes their cut and the cost of merchandise is subtracted, they'll probably have 2.6-2.8 mil.

That sounds a bit too low to me.

As for the multiple revenue streams, what are they? Bethesda fucked Obsidian with NV - no royalties there. I doubt they get much from NWN2 sales. Not sure about AP and DS3. South Park's delayed, but I don't think it means more money for Obsidian due to THQ's bad financial state. What else do they have in development?

Beats me, but I'm sure they have something or all those people would have been fired already.

My point is, as a company, they don't depend entirely on Project Eternity. Same for inXile and Wasteland 2, btw.

 

[Brayko]

InXile is a smaller studio and they are able to focus more on W2 without too many distractions. Obsidian does have the potential to bite off more than they can chew if they aren't careful.

 

[Vault Dweller]

After KS takes their cut and the cost of merchandise is subtracted, they'll probably have 2.6-2.8 mil.

That sounds a bit too low to me.

This was posted on the Codex (not sure where the info came from, but the numbers look reasonable):

Double Fine: $3,446,371
After fees and failed transactions: $3,099,660.
Money Spent on rewards: $473,231
Documentary budget: $393,964
Final game budget: $2,232,465

 

[Infinitron]

After KS takes their cut and the cost of merchandise is subtracted, they'll probably have 2.6-2.8 mil.

That sounds a bit too low to me.

This was posted on the Codex (not sure where the info came from, but the numbers look reasonable):

Double Fine: $3,446,371
After fees and failed transactions: $3,099,660.
Money Spent on rewards: $473,231
Documentary budget: $393,964
Final game budget: $2,232,465

It's well-known that Double Fine spent way too much on goodies. Obsidian was stingier about those. Also, that documentary.

 

[Brayko]

That's actually a good budget for an Indie-ish type of game. Not sure why they had to do a documentary, I consider that kind of stuff a waste of gameplay resources but Tim does like to be on camera so..

 

[betamin]

In any case, the assumption that a company with multiple revenue streams will just "run out of money" after 18 months...

It's easier than you think. Remember the layoffs in March?

... when they've more than tripled their initial Kickstarter goals, isn't a sound one.

The KS goal is a meaningless and random number. In a world of 10-20 mil budgets and sky-high costs of running studios like Obsidian (Feargus: "Our burn rate is $1 million a month"), 1 mil goal isn't much. Sure, they got 3.7 mil, but that's on paper. After KS takes their cut and the cost of merchandise is subtracted, they'll probably have 2.6-2.8 mil. A fortune for average Joe, a pittance for a studio.

As for the multiple revenue streams, what are they? Bethesda fucked Obsidian with NV - no royalties there. I doubt they get much from NWN2 sales. Not sure about AP and DS3. South Park's delayed, but I don't think it means more money for Obsidian due to THQ's bad financial state. What else do they have in development?

1 million a month? Jesus and they can't even design a proper combat system. And then you have Knights of the Chalice.

Is there any chance that Feargus is using some of that money for himself or something.

 

[Infinitron]

In any case, the assumption that a company with multiple revenue streams will just "run out of money" after 18 months...

It's easier than you think. Remember the layoffs in March?

... when they've more than tripled their initial Kickstarter goals, isn't a sound one.

The KS goal is a meaningless and random number. In a world of 10-20 mil budgets and sky-high costs of running studios like Obsidian (Feargus: "Our burn rate is $1 million a month"), 1 mil goal isn't much. Sure, they got 3.7 mil, but that's on paper. After KS takes their cut and the cost of merchandise is subtracted, they'll probably have 2.6-2.8 mil. A fortune for average Joe, a pittance for a studio.

As for the multiple revenue streams, what are they? Bethesda fucked Obsidian with NV - no royalties there. I doubt they get much from NWN2 sales. Not sure about AP and DS3. South Park's delayed, but I don't think it means more money for Obsidian due to THQ's bad financial state. What else do they have in development?

1 million a month? Jesus and they can't even design a proper combat system. And then you have Knights of the Chalice.

Is there any chance that Feargus is using some of that money for himself or something.

I think the 1 million a month is a figure from when they were developing New Vegas?

 

[Vault Dweller]

The quote is from Nov 2011, long after NV was completed.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/obsidian-on-the-right-way-to-fight-used-game-sales-6343997

Feargus Urquhart: I think it depends on your perspective. I think originally you could be an indie developer and not really have to be a business man. And I wouldn't say that I'm a business man, but I have some of the traits that go along with that. And I have had to learn a lot of things about accounting, and taxes, and other things to a point. I think in the past, it was possible to be effective without being really focused on business because the teams were much smaller. If you were eight guys and you made a bunch of money on your previous product, you can go six months without signing a deal. Our burn rate is $1 million a month, so we have to have games all the time. I am not independently wealthy, so I think a lot of it is harder now if you don't understand that you really have to focus on the business side.

 

[Infinitron]

The quote is from Nov 2011, long after NV was completed.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/obsidian-on-the-right-way-to-fight-used-game-sales-6343997

Feargus Urquhart: I think it depends on your perspective. I think originally you could be an indie developer and not really have to be a business man. And I wouldn't say that I'm a business man, but I have some of the traits that go along with that. And I have had to learn a lot of things about accounting, and taxes, and other things to a point. I think in the past, it was possible to be effective without being really focused on business because the teams were much smaller. If you were eight guys and you made a bunch of money on your previous product, you can go six months without signing a deal. Our burn rate is $1 million a month, so we have to have games all the time. I am not independently wealthy, so I think a lot of it is harder now if you don't understand that you really have to focus on the business side.

I stand corrected. It's still from before the big layoffs though

 

[Tigranes]

Obsidian's overhead is probably still around $1m/mth or slightly lower, given that they've been re-hiring. Combine that with the way publisher contracts work, way metacritic loyalty rewards work, way game development itself works, and you see why so many developers just start bleeding all over the place and falling over when everyone thought things were fine. (Or, you have a frantic MONEY MONEY MONEY period beforehand, like the Amalur guys.)

Whether it's Black Isle, Obsidian, or in fact, just about any other developer except the exceptions like Bethesda, you're always only ever a few steps away from mass layoffs or even shutting your doors / getting bought out, even if your games are doing well. Not the same, but the way Origin was sold to EA you'd think is ridiculous if you consider the status their games have.

Not really caring that much about the South Park game as I think the franchise is boring, but hope it actually gets out the door with no major delays or problems. Whoever's fault it is, you'd think Obsidian would get to release one game without having it burn a few million shooting the shit right before coming on stage.

 

[Rake]

THQ announced South Park: The Stick of Truth has been delayed. The game was originally scheduled for release on March 5, 2013. The game has been pushed to early fiscal 2014. THQ's 2014 fiscal year begins April 2013 and ends March 2014.

[Update: THQ said the title has been delayed 2 months]

From Obsidian forums

 

[Phelot]

Who is even looking forward to this? It's like a decade too late. May as well make a Simpsons RPG.

 

[Rhalle]

Who is even looking forward to this? It's like a decade too late. May as well make a Simpsons RPG.

Phelot, I'd brofist this 100 times if I could.

At least there's Tim Cain-- and as senior programmer no less. He's maybe the only fully-grown adult at Obsidian now; and he's distanced himself from the SP:TSOT, and is working on Eternity. If anyone can whip Obshitian into professionalism and adulthood, it's him.