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SoZ - win or fail?

How is SoZ?

  • Great!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Meh.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Define "SoZ".

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  • Total voters
    0

Rhalle

Magister
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
2,192
SoZ's pieces are great, and they point towards a really interesting whole.

But as a whole, it's not a big enough whole to be great overall.

Piecemeal, it's very interesting, but the totality of the experience is average at best.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
If I wanted to run across empty maps hacking at monsters all fucking day then I'd play the original Baldur's Gate.

I expect a little more in 2008 from a company that made KOTOR 2 and MOTB.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
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Messages
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Location
Urkanistan
Yeah we like old games certainly not because they were focused on a single thing like running around the map killing things and leaving everything else at a low quality level - and I'm talking not only about writing, but also about combat (it sucks in SoZ) and interesting world (in soz it's just empty and boring)
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
What writing was there in BG? There were hardly any conversations in that game, and hardly any quests. As for 'interesting world', all the areas consisted of reasonably attractive 2d scenery filled with monsters. In that respect, Sacred also had an interesting world.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,956
"What writing was there in BG? There were hardly any conversations in that game, and hardly any quests. As for 'interesting world', all the areas consisted of reasonably attractive 2d scenery filled with monsters. In that respect, Sacred also had an interesting world."

Of course, even the random encounetrs in BG had more creativity to them, and actually added to the game. The widlerness areas - even the empty ones - had more atmosphere than SOZ shit.
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
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Volourn said:
Of course, even the random encounetrs in BG had more creativity to them, and actually added to the game.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. This is just gold.

Meeting random mobs of gibberlings/wolves/kobolds is so creative and adds to the game a real damn fucking lot!
 

Darth Roxor

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skyway said:
Darth Roxor said:
Meeting random mobs of gibberlings/wolves/kobolds is so creative and adds to the game a real damn fucking lot!

I'm glad we have the same problem with SoZ

I'm glad that the encounters can be avoided in SoZ.
 

bat_boro

Arcane
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
1,543
indeed, they can
I don't fucking understand what are you guys bitching about
I have a 11 level ranger with high survival, spot, hide and listen, and I haven't been spotted on the world map since I was 7 or 8th level or something
random encounters in SoZ can be totally avoided, it's entirely your problem if you have low points in skills
then again, if you are spotted, you can pretty much outrun every mob with a high survival skill, like I did the few times I was spotted and didn't want to fight
 

Darth Roxor

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bat_boro said:
indeed, they can
I don't fucking understand what are you guys bitching about
I have a 11 level ranger with high survival, spot, hide and listen, and I haven't been spotted on the world map since I was 7 or 8th level or something
random encounters in SoZ can be totally avoided, it's entirely your problem if you have low points in skills
then again, if you are spotted, you can pretty much outrun every mob with a high survival skill, like I did the few times I was spotted and didn't want to fight

My thoughts exactly. Most of the people who bitch about SoZ are actually people who utterly fail at playing the game.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
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Urkanistan
Darth Roxor said:
skyway said:
Darth Roxor said:
Meeting random mobs of gibberlings/wolves/kobolds is so creative and adds to the game a real damn fucking lot!

I'm glad we have the same problem with SoZ

I'm glad that the encounters can be avoided in SoZ.

Except there are more encounters spammed every second than sequels spammed by EA every year.
But that's not the point. The point is - oh a great choice - either have yourself a boring combat encounter that looks just like all other combat encounters or don't have it at all. What was the point in including them in the first place? Or at least couldn't Obsidian just make the frequency of the encounters much lesser? I don't find any particular joy in being blocked from all sides by ever spawning bunches of monsters while having high ranger skills - just because I've stuck between them.

Darth Roxor said:
My thoughts exactly. Most of the people who bitch about SoZ are actually people who utterly fail at playing the game.

Or haven't played it enough, amirite

SoZ just reminds me of generic mmorpg except this time you control all your party - but the gameplay is the same - pointless, boring, you just grind grind grind and most quests are about running around and grinding some shit.
Even in Diablo 2 I had more reasons to move forward than here.
 

Darth Roxor

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skyway said:
Either have yourself a boring combat encounter that looks just like all other combat encounters or don't have it at all. What was the point in including them in the first place?

Damn, what a stupid game Fallout is. You can choose intelligence as a dump stat and don't have dialogues at all, or get some points in it and experience conversations. What was the point of including them in the first place?

Or at least couldn't Obsidian just make the frequency of the encounters much lesser? I don't find any particular joy in being blocked from all sides by ever spawning bunches of monsters while having high ranger skills - just because I've stuck between them.

Huh? Of course, you do realise, that closing in to the random encounters doesn't do anything, and you can go there and start dancing in front of them, and they won't see you unless you fail a hide check?
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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Urkanistan
Darth Roxor said:
Damn, what a stupid game Fallout is. You can choose intelligence as a dump stat and don't have dialogues at all, or get some points in it and experience conversations. What was the point of including them in the first place?
Because this stuff is actually interesting and provide different results?
And let's see what random encounters in SoZ provide us with - either you avoid them or have a nice cup of the same boring NWN2 combat. Magnificent.

Huh? Of course, you do realise, that closing in to the random encounters doesn't do anything, and you can go there and start dancing in front of them, and they won't see you unless you fail a hide check?

Except I will get hopelessly bored with the game before I will reach the level when ranger will become that uber. Actually this is what happened. Much more grindy Witcher and even bland ME were better than SoZ in the "fun" department. At least I've completed both games.
Seriously SoZ even has crappy claustrophobic "dungeons". It can't be even classified as a dungeon crawler - because there are no dungeons. What is this game anyway?
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
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skyway said:
Because this stuff is actually interesting and provide different results?

Different results? Yeah, sure, a different result that you can't talk yourself out of anything and you have to go guns blazing.

Oh, hey, wait, that's the same like in SoZ. You don't invest in skills, you pay the friggin price.

Except I will get hopelessly bored with the game before I will reach the level when ranger will become that uber.

Which means you didn't even achieve like... level 6 then. Some gud gaming experience you had thar.

Seriously SoZ even has crappy claustrophobic "dungeons". It can't be even classified as a dungeon crawler - because there are no dungeons. What is this game anyway?

And 'claustrophobic' dungeons are something very strange? In your perfect world dungeons don't have ceilings, are all flashy and corridors are 100 metres wide?
Also, the dungeons get a lot better on the Sword Coast, when compared to the minimalistic two-room ruins in Samarach.
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
This is pretty interesting, I don't think I have ever seen the Codex so divided on a game. Then again, most of the codex is divided between "meh" and "pretty damn good", whereas Volourn leads a handful of stalwart "SUXXORS" faction members. I still think I need to czech it out.
 

Erebus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
4,838
Darth Roxor said:
You don't invest in skills, you pay the friggin price.

Okay, but the price should be additional danger, not boredom. Or do you not find the random encounters to be extremely repetitive ? I think less numerous but more dangerous wandering monsters would have been much better.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TOTALLY AVOID COMBAT IN STORM OF ZEHIR
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
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Erebus said:
Or do you not find the random encounters to be extremely repetitive

No, because I avoid them all.

I think less numerous but more dangerous wandering monsters would have been much better.

The monsters stop being dangerous only when you attack every possible random encounter, and leave Samarach at level 13 thanks to that. I left the jungle with a level 9 party, and the encounters on the Sword Coast were more or less challenging.

Two changes would need to be applied to the random encounters:

1. Making less of them (yes, in the current state there *are* too many of them, and I imagine that I'd be pretty frustrated without a ranger)
2. Eliminating the astronomic xp rewards for beating them, or giving small xp for hide/spot checks on the overland while keeping the xp for beating the encounters.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
Darth Roxor said:
Yeah, sure, a different result that you can't talk yourself out of anything and you have to go guns blazing.
Or you can play Fallout 1/2 for once. Because many quest there aren't about killing stuff and omg have different outcomes for your "talking thru" that can affect the whole cities.

Oh, hey, wait, that's the same like in SoZ. You don't invest in skills, you pay the friggin price.
Exactly the same like in SoZ.

Which means you didn't even achieve like... level 6 then. Some gud gaming experience you had thar.
Except I did. Because I hoped that the game will become less boring. But it stays the same. And according to what I read about the latter game - it doesn't change much.

And 'claustrophobic' dungeons are something very strange? In your perfect world dungeons don't have ceilings, are all flashy and corridors are 100 metres wide?
In my perfect world dungeons aren't two rooms so small that your party barely fits in.

Also, the dungeons get a lot better on the Sword Coast, when compared to the minimalistic two-room ruins in Samarach.
Oh you mean they are now having 5 rooms? That's some improvement right there.

The reality is - SoZ has lots of dialogue skills checks but it has crappy dialogues with exactly the same outcomes for different checks, SoZ has improved combat AI but the combat mechanics are still the NWN2-fucking same, SoZ has a dynamic overland map but it is copy-pasta with boring exploration. Every plus gets double ass-stuffed by hordes of minuses.
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
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skyway said:
Or you can play Fallout 1/2 for once. Because many quest there aren't about killing stuff and omg have different outcomes for your "talking thru" that can affect the whole cities.

I would really like to know what you wanted to say here.

Except I did.

Then you must have given your ranger a really shitty set of skills if you get 'constantly attacked'

In my perfect world dungeons aren't two rooms so small that your party barely fits in.

Dungeons are always claustrophobic, unless you remove the ceiling and add 100-metre wide corridors, you dickwad. They are supposed to be goddamn claustrophobic.

And as I said, two rooms mostly disappear on the Sword Coast, which again shows how long was your gaming experience.

Oh you mean they are now having 5 rooms? That's some improvement right there.

Sorry, I'm not counting them, got better things to do, like, you know, killing stuff, looting and enjoying the gameplay.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
Darth Roxor said:
I would really like to know what you wanted to say here.
Ah sorry I pressed "s" key too lightly when I was typing quests. Better?

Then you must have given your ranger a really shitty set of skills if you get 'constantly attacked'
Maybe you're right and SoZ is indeed flawless

Dungeons are always claustrophobic, unless you remove the ceiling and add 100-metre wide corridors, you dickwad. They are supposed to be goddamn claustrophobic.
Way to miss a point.

And as I said, two rooms mostly disappear on the Sword Coast, which again shows how long was your gaming experience.

Oh you mean they are now having 5 rooms? That's some improvement right there.

Sorry, I'm not counting them, got better things to do, like, you know, killing stuff, looting and enjoying the gameplay.

SoZ has gameplay? :shock:
But enjoy looting useless stuff and combat that is nearly always the same.
 

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
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skyway said:
Ah sorry I pressed "s" key too lightly when I was typing quests. Better?

Nope, that fragment still doesn't make any sense to me.

Maybe you're right and SoZ is indeed flawless

Jumping to stupid conclusions much?

Way to miss a point.

And everyone loves selective quoting.

SoZ has gameplay? :shock:
But enjoy looting useless stuff and combat that is nearly always the same.

Ayup, the gameplay is there, but I guess you were too busy looking for flaws around every corner, and getting constantly attacked by haxxing mobs that bypass your ranger's uberskills to find it.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
Darth Roxor said:
Nope, that fragment still doesn't make any sense to me.
Heh no wonder that you haven't find many outcomes in Fallout's dialogues besides "talk through heavy situation and avoid combat/not avoid combat". Oh wait I believe you're talking about that last Fallout sequel.

Jumping to stupid conclusions much?
No just enjoying fanboy defenses with "oh you can totally avoid all boring combat encounters in SoZ - you just can't play"

And everyone loves selective quoting.
I'm simply returning the favour.

Ayup, the gameplay is there, but I guess you were too busy looking for flaws around every corner, and getting constantly attacked by haxxing mobs that bypass your ranger's uberskills to find it.
Or I simply expected a good, well-designed game from Obsidian and got a modder's toolset instead.
 

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