Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[pjs]

I did check the manuals before asking. It seems that in order to find this information, one would need to be able to check the game files, which is not my realm if expertise or possibly fiddle with levels in GBC. If THACO and Saves truly cap, though HP/level doesn’t, the only other factor in the warrior type comparison would be AT/round. Does that increase cap as well?

Rangers get 2 attacks per round when they reach level 15, the other fighter types at level 13. Levels beyond that do not increase the amount of attacks per round. This specific information is given in the game manuals as well.

I have not checked whether the undead turning capability is level-capped. I suspect so. This might be of very slight relevance to those fighter types that can do it. But yes, generally, in higher levels only the HP is important. It might actually be of some use when you compare for example a Knight at level 20 to a fighter at level 30+.

On the other hand, for mages, the higher levels are extremely important because the DBFs and other spells that depend on the spellcaster have no level caps. And the higher the level the spellcaster has, the chances of going through a monster's magic resistance are likewise higher. This means that, for example, a level 20 magic-user is significantly weaker than a level 30 magic-user.

 

[The Limper]

I did check the manuals before asking. It seems that in order to find this information, one would need to be able to check the game files, which is not my realm if expertise or possibly fiddle with levels in GBC. If THACO and Saves truly cap, though HP/level doesn’t, the only other factor in the warrior type comparison would be AT/round. Does that increase cap as well?

Rangers get 2 attacks per round when they reach level 15, the other fighter types at level 13. Levels beyond that do not increase the amount of attacks per round. This specific information is given in the game manuals as well.

I have not checked whether the undead turning capability is level-capped. I suspect so. This might be of very slight relevance to those fighter types that can do it. But yes, generally, in higher levels only the HP is important. It might actually be of some use when you compare for example a Knight at level 20 to a fighter at level 30+.

No worries, I was questioning if the manuals didn't list late level info. Wouldn't be the 1st or last time a Game Dev missed to show that information in a manual, right?. They did miss calling out the THACO Cap and Save Cap for instance, so the question is valid......

To confirm AT/Round , I was just fiddling with GBC, it seems only HP keeps increasing. At 6 Mil XP, Knight-Rose(L23) with 18 Con has 168 HP max, Dwarf Fighter(L32) with 19 Con has 204 HP max. Saves are the same, THACO is the same, AT/round are the same. All that XP gain for just a few HPs.... kind of disappointing, ya know?

 

[weirwood]

Saves and THAC0 cap at the same levels for the classes, at 17, 19 & 21. Turn Undead is also level capped, which makes Majere clerics a waste in DQK. I'm not sure if Paladins reach the cap at a higher level, or if they're capped at lower effectiveness. DKK has several areas with a penalty to turn undead, but again, I'm not sure if anyone knows the details about this.

Dwarves and Kender get a bonus to saving throws vs poison and spells according to the COK manual. In 2nd edition, this would be based on CON, but I've no idea how it was handled in 1st, and Dragonlance might have its own snowflake rules. Does GBC display saving throws?

Unless you waste a lot of time grinding xp, you should expect to have finished the last game somewhere around 5,5 Mil xp. Pjs' levels sound similar to my last playthrough, but I no longer have the games installed to check.

 

[Joonas]

The GBC homepage has progression tables under "Level progression tables". Direct links to the files:

• Pool of Radiance
• Curse of the Azure Bonds
• Secret of the Silver Blades
• Pools of Darkness
• Champions of Krynn
• Death Knights of Krynn
• The Dark Queen of Krynn
• Gateway to the Savage Frontier
• Treasures of the Savage Frontier
• Unlimited Adventures

The values are fetched from actual character data from game memory. A script was used to automatically level up a character, then the character record data was compared to that of the previous experience level. This was done for all races and classes.
There are several level up related bugs and oddities in the games. Some of these are taken care when GBC level up is used and some left untouched: - Secret of the Silver Blades: - According to the manual and all other games, a paladin needs 2,450,001 xp for level 15. In Secret, you need 2,460,001. - The Dark Queen of Krynn: - When a character reaches level 19 or higher, all saving throws are set to zero! -> GBC level up sets level 18 saving throw values for level 19 and higher. - Paladin does not get more than 1 level 4 cleric spell. -> GBC sets this to 2 at level 19 and to 3 at level 20 and higher. - Krynn-games in general: - Cleric and mage spells per day values in the games differ from what's stated in the manuals. -> Not changed in GBC level up. - Gateway to the Savage Frontier: - Thief skill values are odd (most over 200). Not sure if this a bug or not. -> GBC sets these to those of the other games. - Unlimited Adventures: - Thief saving throws are all zeros for all experience levels. -> GBC level up fixes these (saves are set the same as in Pools of Darkness).

 

[Cael]

Off the internet, you can find for example the following:

This is 2nd edition AD&D, since it's the only version to use terms for groups of classes (warrior, priest, wizard, rogue), and for that matter the term THAC0 wasn't used in a rulebook until the Mentzer BECMI D&D "Black Box" Master Set in 1985. In 1st edition AD&D, as listed on page 74 of the DMG, to-hit rolls stop improving after level 17 for fighters, paladins, and rangers, though the last improvement is at level 19 for clerics, monks, and druids, and at level 21 for magic-users, illusionists, thieves, and assassins. Not certain as to whether this was fully implemented in the Gold Box games.

They are. That is why that link mirrors what you just said.

 

[Ladonna]

I have been playing through Champions of Krynn, and am about half way now. I wandered the map a bit and went to Kernen gates, the part where the guards tell you to get lost. I declined, and tried fighting the usual 50 dragon encounter it unleashes against you. Has anyone won this? If so, what happens afterwards? They just keep the gates shut I guess.

I have been trying to remember the other "go away, this area is out of bounds" battles in the GB games, but only remember the one on Talons ship in Countdown, where Buck Rogers abandons you if you try to take the bridge, and then a huge battle with hordes of pirates, combat bots, and Talon himself kicks off. I was never able to beat that one either. Curious what happens if you win that battle too.

Am I forgetting any?

 

[Cael]

There are two in the Krynn series:

1. The gates at Kernen in COK. You face 3 waves. After the third, the gates is considered secured. You can still then go around and do all the sneaky stuff that would have weakened the gate guards for extra XP.
2. In DKK, there is that ambush thing in Turef. You face 2 waves, and then it is over. Again, you can still do all the stuff you need to bypass the encounter for extra XP.


In the Savage Frontier series, you get one: In Gateway, you face a massive force in that town before Ascore. Can't remember the name. You can kill them all, and then go around killing all the patrols (which would have weakened that force) for extra XP.


On the other hand, there ARE spots where it is literally impossible to win the fight, with endless waves of bad guys coming at you. The flying citadel in COK has one in the north door, and the gates of the southern outpost has unlimited guys once the big fight has been triggered.

 

[Ladonna]

In the Savage Frontier series, you get one: In Gateway, you face a massive force in that town before Ascore. Can't remember the name. You can kill them all, and then go around killing all the patrols (which would have weakened that force) for extra XP.

Yeah, that was on a bridge wasn't it? I think I remember now.

Do you know what happens if you win the Talon battle in Countdown? Buck would sure look like a retard at least. Wouldn't do much for his image back on Earth lol

 

[Cael]

In the Savage Frontier series, you get one: In Gateway, you face a massive force in that town before Ascore. Can't remember the name. You can kill them all, and then go around killing all the patrols (which would have weakened that force) for extra XP.

Yeah, that was on a bridge wasn't it? I think I remember now.

Do you know what happens if you win the Talon battle in Countdown? Buck would sure look like a retard at least. Wouldn't do much for his image back on Earth lol

No. I never played Buck Rogers. Sci-fi is less of a thing for me, although I love (real) Battletech.

EDIT: Just to be clear, when I said gate to Kernen above, I meant the keep gates. Town gates from the outside is unlimited dracs, I think... I never tried it, to be honest.

 

[Ladonna]

Just to be clear, when I said gate to Kernen above, I meant the keep gates. Town gates from the outside is unlimited dracs, I think... I never tried it, to be honest.

Yeah, I meant the end game city, Kernen, not the Ogre base. I have tried the battle a couple of times, but it seemed unwinnable. I am guessing you are right with the unlimited waves, since they use the same in another location.

 

[Cael]

OK. I think I confused you. My bad. Spoiler ahead, by the way:


Kernen has two gates. One is the gates to the city itself. The other is the gate to the keep within the city.

The gates to the city can be reached at any time. Just wander across to the city on the map. This gate has unlimited dracs, I think.

In the end game, you gain access to Kernen city, and you need into the keep. That gate is guarded by a large force of dragons and dracs. you are supposed to do various things around town to weaken it before charging the gates in broad daylight, but it is beatable without do the things. 3 waves of bad guys will come at you, and it RESETS if you flee and come back later. This is probably where people start thinking it is impossible to beat. It isn't. You just cannot flee until all 3 waves are dead.

And I stress: DRAGONS and Draconians (including a shit ton of Bozaks). PER WAVE. IIRC, it is over 5k XP per wave, to give you an idea of the kind of numbers we are talking about.

 

[Ladonna]

The gates to the city can be reached at any time. Just wander across to the city on the map. This gate has unlimited dracs, I think.

This is the one I was talking about. I just decided to wander across the map and try the battle out (I have done it before, years ago). If it just has unlimited battles there is no reason to bother.

 

[Cael]

The gates to the city can be reached at any time. Just wander across to the city on the map. This gate has unlimited dracs, I think.

This is the one I was talking about. I just decided to wander across the map and try the battle out (I have done it before, years ago). If it just has unlimited battles there is no reason to bother.

They are apparently worth quite a bit of XP. So you can grind there if you want.

 

[octavius]

I wonder if anyone ever beat Talon and his merry men in Buck Rogers? I could beat the Mulmaster Beholder Corps in CoAB without using the Dust of Disappearance, but taking advantage of terrain and horrible AI instead, but there seems no way no win the Talon battle due to the open battlefield.

 

[Lt Broccoli]

Question if I may: Is it possible to transfer characters from FRUA to other Gold Box games and/or transfer from other Gold Box games to FRUA?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Only if someone made a custom FRUA module to be like the older GOLDBOX games. I’ve never rated any of those modules or played them. Maybe there is a vid.

The only way to “transfer” would be hacking/trainer I believe.

 

[octavius]

Question if I may: Is it possible to transfer characters from FRUA to other Gold Box games and/or transfer from other Gold Box games to FRUA?

I don't think a direct transfer is possible, but you can always use some editor to modify your characters. I think there are two different ones for the GB games, and IIRC there's also some for FRUA.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

I never played in Buck Rogers games. They are good?

 

[octavius]

First one is good. Didn't care for the second one, with too many random encounters of HP bloated versions of enemies from the first game (at least in the beginning).

 

[La vie sexuelle]

First one is good. Didn't care for the second one, with too many random encounters of HP bloated versions of enemies from the first game (at least in the beginning).

Buck works with map-making mod like FR games?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

There are copies of all assets around to put into FRUA. There are SUPES as well and other genre. It can get complicated. The other engine that needed the FRUA was Dungeon Craft

https://uaf.sourceforge.net/
http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/dungeoncraft/index.shtml

https://web.archive.org/web/20091027231108/http://dungeoncraft.skybakcone.com/

http://two.xthost.info/uatu/dungeoncraft/index.html

Some just fail to work. You can try each sites links to other sites and wayback machine as many as possible. Also, hit up their forums even if no longer in service.

The FR archive I recall:
http://frua.corhub.com/

****below is possibly best sites****
http://frua.rosedragon.org/

https://forums.goldbox.games/index.php

https://forums.goldbox.games/index.php?topic=321.0

https://forums.goldbox.games/index.php?topic=4286.0

https://www.weekendwastemonster.net/crpgs/frua/frua.html


I loved this sites presentation and suggestions. Damn pity it wasn’t fully archived or kept alive. I should screenshot each page to read for my own perusal. It is way backed to check each year if need be as sone gfx might carry over. Links probably fail but you might get lucky.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200321001559/http://therealm.flopsyville.com/Menu.htm

 

[ProphetSword]

There are copies of all assets around to put into FRUA. There are SUPES as well and other genre. It can get complicated. The other engine that needed the FRUA was Dungeon Craft

https://uaf.sourceforge.net/
http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/dungeoncraft/index.shtml

https://web.archive.org/web/20091027231108/http://dungeoncraft.skybakcone.com/

http://two.xthost.info/uatu/dungeoncraft/index.html

Some just fail to work. You can try each sites links to other sites and wayback machine as many as possible. Also, hit up their forums even if no longer in service.

The FR archive I recall:
http://frua.corhub.com/

****below is possibly best sites****
http://frua.rosedragon.org/

https://forums.goldbox.games/index.php

https://forums.goldbox.games/index.php?topic=321.0

https://forums.goldbox.games/index.php?topic=4286.0

https://www.weekendwastemonster.net/crpgs/frua/frua.html


I loved this sites presentation and suggestions. Damn pity it wasn’t fully archived or kept alive. I should screenshot each page to read for my own perusal. It is way backed to check each year if need be as sone gfx might carry over. Links probably fail but you might get lucky.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200321001559/http://therealm.flopsyville.com/Menu.htm

The forums for both FRUA and Dungeon Craft are in the same location:

https://forums.goldbox.games/

This is the best resource for everything related to both of those games. Not only are the communities very active, there are links to every valuable resource you would need, as well as links to many past items of value, like the newsletters that date all the way back to 1994 or so.

 

[Lt Broccoli]

Another question. Is it technically possible to transfer files of characters from either the Pool/Curse/SoSB/Pools or GSF/TSF to the Krynn series without using editors?

I realise if this could work it would only apply to a limited range of races and classes (ie. likely only human and half-elf and not the spellcasting classes)

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Not that I know of unless you are some sort of programmer who creates some third-party program. Again, you could just use UGE or GBC. I’m unaware of anything else atm.

 

[octavius]

I'm thinking of replaying the Gold Box games again, this time using the latest high tech available, in the form of the Gold Box Companion, enabling me to start with a Paladin and a Ranger.

But the tutorial advices that before you start GBC, you need to start the game normally, create the party, begin adventuring, and save the game.
So I assume the procedure is to use the save game editor to change a character's class to Ranger or Paladin?

Also, GBC assumes using the GOG version. What if you already have a different version (and are too cheap to buy the GOG version)?