Star Wars: The Old Republic will kill WoW - outsourced to Broadsword

[Menckenstein]

My 2012 gaming prediction: Romance specific expansion pack incoming for TOR

 

[Drakron]

Also are there completely separate storylines for the sith and the jedi?

Each class have its own storyline.
Republic and Sith have their separated zones so there are separated non-storyline Republic Quests and Sith Quets.

But that is were I am going to say this is were the subscription model makes little sense, there are few cases were you actually need a party (only Flashpoints and Heroic quests) as it looks the majority of the game can be accomplished solo, its reminds me of Guild Wars were you rarely needed to Group and it looks to me the "need to Group" only comes after you finished the Storyline (lv50) with Raids.

 

[Reject_666_6]

SWTOR has indeed a good story and good writing

You're praising a Bioware MMO for its story and writing? That's like praising a Bethesda roguelike for its animations.

 

[Art Vandelay]

WoW has been doing really good job killing itself lately and i suspect not only it will kill itself, but the death of WoW might also be the end of Blizzard.I can't see them delivering game such as WoW anymore,as it was mostly an accidental success.

 

[Mangoose]

You're praising a Bioware MMO for its story and writing? That's like praising a Bethesda roguelike for its animations.

Most of the quests are not written by your "typical" Bioware writer, as there are so many quests in a themepark MMO they had to spread out the workload.

 

[Crispy]

Might as well put my impressions up.

I like it. But, it's disappointing in a few significant ways.

First off, the game plays pretty poorly considering its extremely simplistic graphics engine. It's so woefully unoptimized there have been three 150+ page threads (actually all separated my the mods due to thread length) of all the kids bawwwing about it. I can get it to run nicely on my rig, but sometimes inexplicably the game starts to stutter like crazy.

It's a mindless game. All BioWare games are now. But, it's got "something" to it. Is it just the old Star Wars appeal? Is there a little bit of the WoW-addictive factor I mentioned earlier injected by the former WoW designers? Is it an actual small amount of depth that piques my interest just slightly? Probably all three.

I like the fact it's slow-paced. I really don't give a fuck how far and fast other players are progressing. I never really did before in any other MMO, but this one really scales that down because of its player storyline progression and the illusion created that everyone's an NPC in a single-player game but that you can interact with should you choose. The companions go a long way towards that end, keeping you "company" as you run around, making comments of their own, being customizable themselves, and summoning memories of KotOR games of past. It's amusing and somewhat cute.

All stats have been homogenized or rather made intangible, however, and that I don't like. Level up and your stats just raise on their own, the only things you have any effect on yourself through your choices and luck in finding better equipment being armor and weapons effectiveness. I'm still early in the game, having only reached level 7 so far, but I can see this as being a problem soon. I don't like feeling disconnected from my character like that.

Other than the performance issues, quality control seems okay. Supposed to have been one of the smoother launches for an MMO in history, from what I've heard. Client crashes a bit here and there, but overall I can run for hours without any major hiccups. The voice acting is top notch to this point, but I'm detecting some re-use already. Sounds are as any Lucas-backed production excellent, and the very cartooney graphics, just like I imagine it is with WoW, really do grow on you. It's satisfying getting a new set of boots or a new blaster or whatever and seeing the change on your character. Dress up all over again, but meh. That's always been part of all CRPG's.

So again, I am enjoying it. We'll see if I up after the 30 day deal. Recommended to anyone here if you can deal with the overpopulation and the choking game engine.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

What you posted just doesn't make any sense. 500k susbribers a year at about 100$ each (being gentle) is quite a lot of money.

Two dollars is a lot of money for a cup of coffee, what matters is context.

If you're gentle and assume 100 bucks from 500k people that would be the equivalent of 1 million retail game sales, those are the kind of numbers TW2 did on the pc in the span of 1 year and as far as I can tell CDprojekt is not doing too well for it.

The implication of those numbers(500k customers for 1 year with 100$ revenue per customer) would be that the upper ceiling for the game would be 50 million, but in reality when you take away wholesalers' and other distribution/support costs the publisher ends with less than half that, so it would be less than 25 millions to develop and market/advertise the game according to that EA statement.

If you don't find that cheap for a 2011 mmorpg based on the star wars license set to compete against world of warcraft(whether it succeeds at measuring up or not is irrelevant) then we don't have anything to discuss on this matter.

But let's not be gentle, let's be greedy and assume he meant 500k people paying 50 bucks for the game and 15 bucks per month for 12 months(ignoring the free month and cheaper subscription plans), that gives us about 115 million bucks spent on the game by gamers, which would be the equivalent of about 2 million retail game sales.

It's a lot of money for sure, but given the context...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16244994

it's one of the most expensive games ever made

I've seen the 130+ million budget propaganda, and the 500k subscribers one too, here's the thing, if you're gonna take their pr people/marketers's word for it then you can either believe that the game cost over 130 millions to make OR you can believe that they'll break even with 500k subscribers for a year, you can't believe both.

Of those 115 million bucks that 500k subscribers would ideally spend in a year not even half would go to the publisher (it's usually 16 bucks on the 50 dollar game), but let's be greedy and assume they'd get half, that'd set it at less than 60 million, an impressive sum for sure, more than 2-3 times the cost of your average popular xbox/pc/ps3 game...

But a far cry from being the most expensive game ever(100mil for GTA4) by costing over 130 millions, isn't it?

Now what I don't understand is, why take their word for any of it?

When they say that it's the most expensive game ever with a budget of over 130 million, whether truthful or not(could they be held accountable to that statement? who would call them out on it?), it's an obvious attempt at hyping the game among potential buyers and gaming media.
When some EA suit claims that the game only needs half a million subs for just one year to get out of the red he's similarly trying to hype EA stock by pretending they can't lose, it's not something meant for gamers to care about which is why they even contradict each other, they tell different groups whatever they wanna hear.
Gamers hear that they get a big huge expensive to make game, investors hear that they can't lose money. Why do you believe/care about their marketing junkspeak?

I found it funny how what they've been telling gamers(it's expensive) is essentially the opposite of what they're telling investors(it's cheap).

 

[Grunker]

i dont know shit about mmo or game revenue i was commenting on the game being cheap which is a pretty obvious lie to anyone who can do basic math and has a basic understanding of the game

or maybe those ten trillions lines of dialogue were free because all the voiceactors are poles and were paid in potato i dunno my point is this game is pretty epic in scope compared to anything ive seen in terms of content so i felt like calling out an asshat statement excuse me for upsetting your rage

you wanna hate on ea and bioware im right there with you but calling them out using dubious fucktard statements isnt they way to go theres plenty legitimate shit to get riled up about

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

i dont know shit

Honesty.

 

[Grunker]

Honesty.

 

[felipepepe]

I'm still early in the game, having only reached level 7 so far, but I can see this as being a problem soon. I don't like feeling disconnected from my character like that.

BRO Tip, the game dies after Level 10, especially if you play Empire, where your hometown is that shitty space station.

 

[Drakron]

Grunker, you seem butthurt ...

I mean, sure TOR have a lot of quests but what happens when a server population migrates to the end areas and you are in Coruscant and have a Heroic 4 quest and nobody is responding to your LFG in general chat?

It seems they expect people to go over the same content areas at least 4 times but even if that happens then there is still the fact some players will be de-scync from the main population area migrations and it will just get worst the longer the game is running.

Also what happens after you get to the end? you could do it again but after 8 times you really dont have a incentive to create new toons ... heck from comments it seems you are being fucked if dont play it like Mass Effect and go to one of the extremes because of Relics having Light Side or Dark Side requirements, incredible stupid for classes that are not Force users (Trooper-Smuggler-Bounty Hunter-Imperial Agent), here is a example ... Arena Champion's Boots : level 25: Bounty Hunter: Light II (and I even picked a non Relic item).

 

[Grunker]

i am often trolled but i am never butthurt

Seriously though, in my opinion most MMOs suck ass in their basic design. I don't think TOR is any different (though I do enjoy the story-thing BioWare's crafted). I have no reason to defend TOR and I won't. But saying the game was cheap is bullshit, and with so many things to rage on EA and BioWare for it shouldn't be necessary for us to fabricate stuff.

Also what happens after you get to the end? you could do it again but after 8 times you really dont have a incentive to create new toons ... heck from comments it seems you are being fucked if dont play it like Mass Effect and go to one of the extremes because of Relics having Light Side or Dark Side requirements, incredible stupid for classes that are not Force users (Trooper-Smuggler-Bounty Hunter-Imperial Agent), here is a example ... Arena Champion's Boots : level 25: Bounty Hunter: Light II (and I even picked a non Relic item).

I believe they said they would add neutral items soon. But yeah, their lightside/darkside system kindda sucks. They seem to have implemented it as a LARPing tool, but then they tie all these gameplay-mechanics to it without giving the player a clear picture.

 

[Redshirt #42]

I'm pretty sure SWTOR will flop, just like the last Star Wars themed Mumorpuger.

 

[Valvar]

I'm pretty sure SWTOR will flop, just like the last Star Wars themed Mumorpuger.

It already did.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

I wouldn't call mmo that lasted 8 years "a flop" but whatever. Bioware's and SW's fanbase will bring in enough people to make it last a few years at least. I never expected Age of Conan to survive and it's doing ok nowadays with one of the worst mmo launches in history.

 

[Black]

Looks like a WoW killer alright.
www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=109515

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Well, that's a bit retarded. If he got the loot only by being in the area I don't see a reason even for a warning.

 

[bot]

Looks like a WoW killer alright.
www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=109515

This is despicable. At one time in the history of MMOs the cunning, smart powergamers were actually allowed to reap the benefits of their ingenuity. Now you get banned for standing out of the mindless crowd. What's the message? Back to grinding you sheeple and let the subscription money flow.

 

[Black]

If you want to do something, first you'll have to get past them!
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=112159

 

[Fens]

Looks like a WoW killer alright.
www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=109515

and here i was, thinking that oblivion's level scaling was the antithesis to good open world gameplay... seems bioware/ea managed to find another low

[edit]read a bit of the thread and it seems like he was banned for using an exploit for infinite credits and not for going to that planet with a low lvl toon... not that clear from the mail, though

still... the TOS does contain this bit:

You may not engage in any conduct or practice that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, i.e., "item loading,".

-> http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/roc

 

[Drakron]

Its not what the Email says, besides looking at a item database it seems most items have level requirements, there are some without level requirements so I would say the problem is chest loot tables and those items that lack a requirement if they are being spawned in chests and are not Flashpoint or Heroic quests rewards/drops.

If they left chests unguarded so a low level player can camp to farm it, who's fault is that? in a MMO you should never penalize exploration by making "mandatory fun zone from level 20 to 35", in WoW (pre-Lich King since I quit before it come out) at one point I managed to get into a area that was 20 levels above my level, I did it by running pass mobs and I suppose getting luckly.

This is a non-issue unless they really fucked up and are letting non-level requirement items to be spawning on chests and we have a lv 20 character running around in lv 50 gear.

In fact if they did not wanted for players to get there they only need to lock planets to levels (of course that opens another can on worms because of vendors, great idea putting the companion you get at lv 35 customization kit on a vender that is on a lv 50 area), the problem is not much of the "exploit" but the fact the message they are sending across is "if you are in a planet that is above your level you will get banned", also they are hiding behind their Privacy Policy to not say why exactly people were banned for ... the only "Privacy" they are protecting is of their GM.

Would be sinking $80 on a game that does that? TOS are always worded in a way that pretty much says "we can ban you for whatever reasons we can come up at any time".

 

[Terpsichore]

Amazing.

 

[Shannow]

and here i was, thinking that oblivion's level scaling was the antithesis to good open world gameplay... seems bioware/ea managed to find another low

[edit]read a bit of the thread and it seems like he was banned for using an exploit for infinite credits and not for going to that planet with a low lvl toon... not that clear from the mail, though

still... the TOS does contain this bit:

You may not engage in any conduct or practice that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, i.e., "item loading,".

-> http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/roc

First of all: This is shit, Tal. Bring back fucking nested quotes.
That said:
This is shit. My interest went from "Will play trial or if it goes F2P." to "Fuck this level scaling shit. If you can't make a game that rewards creative play I won't play it."
Not surprizing, really.

 

[Fens]

heh... seems bioware / EA has been on a banning spree lately, threatening perma ban for cursing in private conversations (see best thread ever:
http://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/best-thread-ever-part-3.57009/page-202#post-1913586 )

My interest went from "Will play trial or if it goes F2P." to "Fuck this level scaling shit. If you can't make a game that rewards creative play I won't play it."

mine went from "this looks bland... might give it a go once it's F2P" to "this has more lulz and butthurt potential than expected... never going to play, but will keep reading"