Starfield Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[NecroLord]

I played Morrowind with the un-modded quest journal. Quest logs/markers are better. Otherwise any quest that you don't immediately start when you get it becomes a massive chore to come back to later. Should have saved this take for the trigger the Codex thread.

Reading and searching through a journal? In an RPG? Blasphemy!!

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I played Morrowind with the un-modded quest journal. Quest logs/markers are better. Otherwise any quest that you don't immediately start when you get it becomes a massive chore to come back to later. Should have saved this take for the trigger the Codex thread.

Reading and searching through a journal? In an RPG? Blasphemy!!

"reading"
people who worship morrowind's directions are people who never actually played the game

prompted a change in the way Bethesda provided information to the player, relative to Morrowind in 2002,

they began providing quest markers because their directions sucked

Go ahead, read the directions and see how long it takes you to find the location:

It's not just something that happens a few times, and you frequently get directions that are flat out wrong:


quest markers exist because their designers couldn't give directions worth shit, not because of players

 

[Caim]

"Why yes, I do give my players wrong directions on purpose."

 

[NecroLord]

Why do you worship Todd and Skyrim so much rusty_shackleford ?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Important response from Todd Howard

 

[Robotigan]

people who worship morrowind's directions are people who never actually played the game

I think they're a similar segment to the IKEA husbands who get into arguments with their spouse over their refusal to read the instruction manual. Some people have a pathological hatred for feeling helped. I don't think quest markers are good or bad, they're just a tool you can use to get players to experience the game the way you want them to. It's not even that Morrowind's instructions are sometimes frustratingly vague. Most games have occasional frustrations I'm willing to work past if I think the core idea is solid. Why I dislike the journal is because even when the instructions are straightforward and easy to follow, it feels like you're constantly interrupting your game to alt-tab into a guide. That's not engaging gameplay. Staring at a menu can be engaging when you're trying to figure something out--such as build math or quest riddles--but no one wants to root around in a menu just to check their MapQuest directions. I have the same hang-up with survival systems. Fuck you for making me go into my inventory every 5 minutes to click on an apple. If you must have hunger meters, do something like a foodstack. All food pickups automatically go into the stack, food is automatically consumed from the stack as your meter depletes. No freaking menus for something so trivially automatic.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Part of the appeal of "survival" games is efficiently managing your resources
Automated systems take control away from the player
Therefore eliminating the appeal

snip

The better solution would be to simply write more accurate directions and even perhaps to better label the map (giving names to roads and biomes)
Quest markers are a lazy "fix", that ironically create a worse problem than the one it solves

 

[Late Bloomer]

This NPC represents not only a relatable character but a character that represents the target audience for a Bethesda game set in outer space. The picture hanging up in the background is a famous engineer, doctor, scientist, who helped usher in humanities ability to explore the cosmos. It also happens to be her father. This is the type of character I want talking down to me, explaining how insignificant I am in the face of infinite space, and how she knows whats best not only for my character but for humanity as a whole. Thank you.

 

[NecroLord]

This NPC represents not only a relatable character but a character that represents the target audience for a Bethesda game set in outer space. The picture hanging up in the background is a famous engineer, doctor, scientist, who helped usher in humanities ability to explore the cosmos. It also happens to be her father. This is the type of character I want talking down to me, explaining how insignificant I am in the face of infinite space, and how she knows whats best not only for my character but for humanity as a whole. Thank you.

 

[Utgard-Loki]

This NPC represents not only a relatable character but a character that represents the target audience for a Bethesda game set in outer space. The picture hanging up in the background is a famous engineer, doctor, scientist, who helped usher in humanities ability to explore the cosmos. It also happens to be her father. This is the type of character I want talking down to me, explaining how insignificant I am in the face of infinite space, and how she knows whats best not only for my character but for humanity as a whole. Thank you.

rated simply shit because i don't have the sheeeeeeit button.

 

[Robotigan]

Part of the appeal of "survival" games is efficiently managing your resources

Sure, but don't force the player to do things if there are no interesting decisions to be made. And if you are going to focus on a system enough to facilitate engaging gameplay, you need an interface that isn't annoying to use. It's all about figuring out a satisfying game flow. Paradox games are all menus but have a good flow because the game is all about system management. You're not being interrupted from an action game.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The big difference between The Witcher 3 and Morrowind is that The Witcher 3 virtually plays itself, with minimal interaction required from the player. Whereas Morrowind requires WAY more depth of interactivity to progress and complete the game.

It's not so much about which is better/worse good/bad, it's about the levels of retardation which the player is suffering from. If you struggle doing things for yourself, Witcher 3 is obviously the go-to game.

Morronwind has less shit like quest markers, quest compasses, cookie trails, etc, because it was produced in an era before that, unlike W3, but with that said, more active gameplay is only a plus IF it's good gameplay, Which in Morronwind's case it's obviously not.

You seem upset.

I'm just dumbfounded at the contrarianism and stupidity on display of your post
Reminds me of that time when anvi told me that Thief was a shit game

Thus spake Fanboythustra.

I've played enough Morrowind to side with PorkyThePaladin on all of his criticisms of the game.

On replays Morrowind is just too boring and empty to keep my interest. "Exploration" in Morrowind feels unrewarding to me because, for the most part, there's nothing of interest to find. And the common loot you get ain't anywhere near as valuable as, say, finding a single potion in Gothic. It reminds me of the mid to late Fallout gameplay: you start killing enemies left and right and they drop these Leather and Metal Armors, Desert Eagles, 10mm SMGs, but their only use is to be turned into bottlecaps (if you find the merchants) or barter for stuff you don't really need anymore.

Bethesda has a real problem with itemization. They shower you with pointless items, it's exasperating.

It's more than just bad itemization, though that's definitely a thing in Morronwind. Good exploration games have unique, hand-placed content. So when you stumble across something, you go, wow, that's pretty cool. In Morronwind, and in Bethesda games in general, they copy paste PoIs all the time because they can't produce that many unique things with such size/scope. So they come up with say 5 types of locations (e.g. vampire tomb, fort, daedra shrine, bandit cave, etc), and then they have some kind of procedural software that randomizes the basic layout, the mobs populating it, the loot, etc within some basic constraints (e.g. vampire tomb must have only vampires and skeletons in it), and then populate the world with like 50 of each. So obviosuly after you explore a few of those type, you've seen it all and it just becomes pointless busywork.

 

[Sigourn]

It's more than just bad itemization, though that's definitely a thing in Morronwind. Good exploration games have unique, hand-placed content. So when you stumble across something, you go, wow, that's pretty cool. In Morronwind, and in Bethesda games in general, they copy paste PoIs all the time because they can't produce that many unique things with such size/scope. So they come up with say 5 types of locations (e.g. vampire tomb, fort, daedra shrine, bandit cave, etc), and then they have some kind of procedural software that randomizes the basic layout, the mobs populating it, the loot, etc within some basic constraints (e.g. vampire tomb must have only vampires and skeletons in it), and then populate the world with like 50 of each. So obviosuly after you explore a few of those type, you've seen it all and it just becomes pointless busywork.

Agree.
The thing Skyrim has going for it is that its dungeons tend to have more unique looks to them even if they still follow the basic nordic tomb/bandit lair/dwemer ruin templates. There's usually something about each one of them that makes them distinct from the rest, visually speaking. Morrowind's arr rook same, unfortunately. People always come up with the same 10 Morrowind dungeons when you ask them about "memorable" dungeons.

 

[Caim]

This NPC represents not only a relatable character but a character that represents the target audience for a Bethesda game set in outer space. The picture hanging up in the background is a famous engineer, doctor, scientist, who helped usher in humanities ability to explore the cosmos. It also happens to be her father. This is the type of character I want talking down to me, explaining how insignificant I am in the face of infinite space, and how she knows whats best not only for my character but for humanity as a whole. Thank you.

If her black dad stuck around to help raise and provide for her as a child he's definitely worthy of a painting.

 

[Alienman]

Just redguards in space.

 

[The Wall]

Microsoft is probably in TOP5 WOKE tech companies. Bethesda, Skyrim as home of Nords is 55% Nords, will be so WOKE in Starfield it will make Bill, Western Billioner's Cute Ginger Daughter sucks Pajeet dick, Gates blush. Now that being WOKE is not something done by individual employees, as part of their little secret agenda, but literally MANDATED by Company's ESG you can expect biggest WOKE Circus in Space. All of that doesn't matter to no-lifer gamers, who are addicted to Bethesda's digital cocaine

 

[logrus]

I do not have high expectations, but I'd just happily take Skyrim in space or Mass Effect in Bethesda flavour, as that would be maximum what we can realistically get. There won't be ever another Morrowind-like game from Bethesda, that train has already left. Just don't give us Fallout 4/76 in space level of shit. High-budget SF cRPGs is such a rare thing nowadays that I'm open for compromise, but event that has it's limits.
I watched some "gameplay trailer" after I wrote and I can tell that I really and honestly dig the art style, they really nailed it.
Combat looks like shit though, some generic shooter with XP numbers popping out, original Mass Effect looks like an eilte RPG in comparison. Remnants of an RPG system looks like bonuses unlocked by achievements, if that's so than modern Assassin Creed games are more of the RPG than this. Crafting with the research tree might be fun.
Don't fuck it up Bethesda (not totally at least)

 

[gerey]

I watched some "gameplay trailer" after I wrote and I can tell that I really and honestly dig the art style, they really nailed it.

Yeah, I really like the "Nasapunk" vibe or whatever they're calling it. You don't see that kind of pseudo-realism much in sci-fi. Reminds me of Interstellar, which is where they got the inspiration from I imagine.

Combat looks like shit though, some generic shooter with XP numbers popping out, original Mass Effect looks like an eilte RPG in comparison.

That's not much of an issue. Sad as it is to say, Bethesda modders have gotten pretty good at fixing (ranged) combat. Better animations, better sound, better particle effects and rebalancing the damage should go a long way towards transforming it into a mediocre shooter.

Don't fuck it up Bethesda (not totally at least)

By far the biggest faultline is going to be the writing, but from what others have said the guy behind Far Harbour is the lead writer. Far Harbour is the best written anything Bethesda has done since the release of Morrowind, so maybe there's hope?

Other areas of jank are going to be space combat and the procedurally generated planets. Then again, it's the first time in decades that Bethesda is at least trying something novel and ambitious (for them), so I can't exactly fault them for trying.

Hopefully American Krogan makes a bleaching mod for Starfield like he's doing for Fallout 4, removing all the space monkeys and ugly women in favor of something more realistic.

 

[Late Bloomer]

By far the biggest faultline is going to be the writing, but from what others have said the guy behind Far Harbour is the lead writer. Far Harbour is the best written anything Bethesda has done since the release of Morrowind

I have heard that a lot. I have never really gotten a satisfactory answer as to why. Might you be able to give examples of why you feel that way?

 

[EvilWolf]

By far the biggest faultline is going to be the writing, but from what others have said the guy behind Far Harbour is the lead writer. Far Harbour is the best written anything Bethesda has done since the release of Morrowind

I have heard that a lot. I have never really gotten a satisfactory answer as to why. Might you be able to give examples of why you feel that way?

It's been five years, but; basically philosophical ghost in the shell-esque "are we human or robot? Does it even matter?" with pseudo-branching choices throughout the story culminating in, what I remember, as a three way choice in what to do. I killed everybody in the end so I assume I missed a lot of the nuance with the choices near the end.

 

[likash]

The game looks like a combo between ME Andromeda and The Outer World. Combat is retarded and looks worse than the ME combat. Just fold this fucking cancer of a studio already. The've not made a decent game since Skyrim.

 

[Naraya]

The game looks like a combo between ME Andromeda and The Outer World. Combat is retarded and looks worse than the ME combat. Just fold this fucking cancer of a studio already. The've not made a decent game since Skyrim.

Why? It will still sell like hot cakes and they will rake in millions, you know that as well as I.

 

[NecroLord]

It will still sell like hot cakes and they will rake in millions, you know that as well as I.

Unfortunately, yeah. Consoomers who have not played the early Elder Scrolls games don't give a damn and you can't trust them to stand up and demand of Bethesda to make an actual RPG like in the good old days. Starfield does look like it is set to be "Skyrim in Space".

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Anyone else excited?

 

[Caim]

Anyone else excited?

Yes, but not for the game itself. I'm here to see what Bethesda's got to show and the ensuing...



fallout.