Starfield Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Butter]

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Morrowind's positive qualities :
+ excellent lore

Positive yes, but not great like say PS:T or Witcha games.

Hope you're just being contrarian
Because otherwise this is just cringe

+ great world design

Hell no.

Yes
The world space design - distinctions between each region, how they compose the world and how they lead the player - was clearly well thought out and it's very enjoyable to discover
The way the lore also integrates with it also helps

Dead world, mostly empty streets in large cities,

Most likely a problem due to a lack of resources during development
Either because Bethsoft didn't have enough time to achieve higher population density or because the hardware just didn't allow it

settlements built unrealistically compared to better games,

Wtf does that even mean?

boring wilderness, too much PoI copy-pasting,

Well, that's just like your opinion bro...
Personally I find TES3 wilderness more interesting and aesthetically appealing than Witcher 3
Also funny you should point out that PoI copy-pasting is a serious game design problem, yet not once have I seen you criticizing BotW for it - despite it being one of the worst things about that game

+ great atmosphere

The dead world feeling above kills the atmosphere to a large degree. As do no voice-overs and wiki-style dialogues. It feels more like perusing a boring encyclopedia rather than being immersed into a living, breathing world.

You're complains are mostly about very superficial details
And those aren't even the details Morrowind's atmosphere draw its appeal - those would be the world, lore, artstyle, music, quests & characters
Also for sandbox rpg's, wiki-style dialogues absolutely are the best way to implement dialogues

+ very good sense of adventure

Terrible combat, copy-paste PoIs, ugly graphics and boring dialogue killed the sense of adventure for me. But perhaps it was different for you.

I can literally say the same for Witcher 3
And I can even defend that argument better since that game does have a real problem with copy-paste PoIs and the combat is boring and terrible, in the sense that it's connection to the RPG mechanics are garbage
Because see, Morrowind's combat is not Action oriented (so it can't really be judged by those standards), Morrowind's combat is very much that of a cRPG

+ very good main quest

It's alright, definitely one of the better things in Morronwind.

It's very good
Much better than KCD, W3 and honestly even PST - because fuck visual novels and the fags that enabled it

+ good character writing

Meh, most NPCs are wikis. The few important ones with actual personal dialogue are ok, but nothing special compared to the better games in the genre.

Characters such as who?

+ good character leveling system

Join every guild, get unbalanced spells to cheese the game,

Oh wow!
If the player has an intimate knowledge of game's systems and world (or if looked up a guide), he can, after some time of busywork, metagame and break the experience!

You know... just like in every fucking cRPG ever made

Do you even play, the genre of games you supposedly know very much about?

walk everywhere to level up walking... Not what I would call great.

You'll have to do better than that if you want to argue that Role-Playing systems that level PC in accordance to their performance of certain actions, is a bad design choice

Oh and didn't KCD do exactly just that?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Morrowind's positive qualities :
+ excellent lore

Positive yes, but not great like say PS:T or Witcha games.

Hope you're just being contrarian
Because otherwise this is just cringe

I am being truthful, fanboy.

+ great world design

Hell no.

Yes
The world space design - distinctions between each region, how they compose the world and how they lead the player - was clearly well thought out and it's very enjoyable to discover
The way the lore also integrates with it also helps

What distinctions? Cliff-racers everywhere, same 4-5 animals repeating with every region, mostly just dead lands peppered with copy-pasted PoIs (same daedra shrines/caves/forts).

Dead world, mostly empty streets in large cities,

Most likely a problem due to a lack of resources during development
Either because Bethsoft didn't have enough time to achieve higher population density or because the hardware just didn't allow it

Yeah, yeah, every game has an excuse, go play the world's smallest violin.

settlements built unrealistically compared to better games,

Wtf does that even mean?

It means in games like Gothic/BotW/Elex/KCD/etc, settlements look like they would in real life, houses are placed organically, so are barns and other peripheral structures, roads are worn down, etc. In Morronwind, ffs, that main city looked like a metal upside down tub, or the interior of a modern ship. The other cities looked like parodies of settlements. Houses placed like legos with computer precision, immaculate unused roads between them, no trash.

boring wilderness, too much PoI copy-pasting,

Well, that's just like your opinion bro...
Personally I find TES3 wilderness more interesting and aesthetically appealing than Witcher 3
Also funny you should point out that PoI copy-pasting is a serious game design problem, yet not once have I seen you criticizing BotW for it - despite it being one of the worst things about that game

W3 wilderness looks much better than anything in any Bethesda game ever, but it doesn't have much in it, that's not the game's strength. BotW doesn't have copy-pasted PoIs, all the actual PoIs are unique, even the shrines are meant to be solved, and the puzzles are unique.

+ great atmosphere

The dead world feeling above kills the atmosphere to a large degree. As do no voice-overs and wiki-style dialogues. It feels more like perusing a boring encyclopedia rather than being immersed into a living, breathing world.

You're complains are mostly about very superficial details
And those aren't even the details Morrowind's atmosphere draw its appeal - those would be the world, lore, artstyle, music, quests & characters

Only a Morronwind fanboy would keep bringing up artstyle and music. They were nothing special in that game at best. And the way the world operates is NOT superficial details.

Also for sandbox rpg's, wiki-style dialogues absolutely are the best way to implement dialogues

Lol, ok.

+ very good sense of adventure

Terrible combat, copy-paste PoIs, ugly graphics and boring dialogue killed the sense of adventure for me. But perhaps it was different for you.

I can literally say the same for Witcher 3
And I can even defend that argument better since that game does have a real problem with copy-paste PoIs and the combat is boring and terrible, in the sense that it's connection to the RPG mechanics are garbage
Because see, Morrowind's combat is not Action oriented (so it can't really be judged by those standards), Morrowind's combat is very much that of a cRPG

You can say it, but you would be just showing that you understand nothing about games. Witcher 3 combat is about a million times better than Morronwind combat (and it's not even that good, which tells you about Morronwind's combat). I don't really give a shit how the combat is tied to RPG mechanics, that's just massive cope, if the combat involves just standing there and spamming the same mouse button.

And again, you keep bringing up W3's weak points to compare to Morronwind, which is funny, becase even against those Morronwind cannot win, since it has nothing of value.

+ very good main quest

It's alright, definitely one of the better things in Morronwind.

It's very good
Much better than KCD, W3 and honestly even PST - because fuck visual novels and the fags that enabled it

Nah, you are just reaching now. It's alright, as in it's not as bad as the rest of the game, but it's nothing special. You are a prisoner who is actually the chosen one, the reincarnation of some blah blah. How unique...

+ good character writing

Meh, most NPCs are wikis. The few important ones with actual personal dialogue are ok, but nothing special compared to the better games in the genre.

Characters such as who?

Such as Cassius Coiades or however you spell his name, Vivec, etc.

+ good character leveling system

Join every guild, get unbalanced spells to cheese the game,

Oh wow!
If the player has an intimate knowledge of game's systems and world (or if looked up a guide), he can, after some time of busywork, metagame and break the experience!

You know... just like in every fucking cRPG ever made

Do you even play, the genre of games you supposedly know very much about?

Nothing to do with that, stop deflecting. I was just pointing out that there is nothing fun in the Morronwind leveling system except cheesing shit. The basic stuff is all boring because the combat is boring.

walk everywhere to level up walking... Not what I would call great.

You'll have to do better than that if you want to argue that Role-Playing systems that level PC in accordance to their performance of certain actions, is a bad design choice

Oh and didn't KCD do exactly just that?

KCD had well designed and interesting gameplay systems, so leveling those was fun. Morronwind has none.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I am being truthful, fanboy.

No, just you're being an idiotic fanboy.

What distinctions?

Play the game
Because despite your claims that you have, your posts say otherwise

Each region has mostly different fauna, flora and cultures/factions
Each region requires distinct logistics to efficiently traverse

It's also amusing you keep lambasting Morrowind for flaw that both W3 and BotW have and it's even many times more severe
And perhaps more importantly, PoIs in Morrowidn actually make sense - they exist in perfect accordance with the worldbuilding and make logical sense
While in W3 and BotW, the dozens of PoIs exist solely to check a list

It means in games like Gothic/BotW/Elex/KCD/etc, settlements look like they would in real life, houses are placed organically, so are barns and other peripheral structures, roads are worn down, etc. In Morronwind, ffs, that main city looked like a metal upside down tub, or the interior of a modern ship. The other cities looked like parodies of settlements. Houses placed like legos with computer precision, immaculate unused roads between them, no trash.

But I won't post comparisons and go into detail, because this thread would get even more austistically derailed and frankly I have some shit I want to quickly finnish before going to bed
So unto the next

BotW doesn't have copy-pasted PoIs

Could you please stop being disingenuous

Only a Morronwind fanboy would keep bringing up artstyle and music.

>music and artstyle aren't significant to a game's atmosphere
Please tell me you're being obtuse just to troll me

You are a prisoner who is actually the chosen one, the reincarnation of some blah blah. How unique...

How reductive and edgy...

Such as Cassius Coiades or however you spell his name, Vivec, etc.

I was asking what characters from other games you consider so special

You can say it, but you would be just showing that you understand nothing about games.

Bitch
You think Sekiro's combat is awesome, while Ninja Gaiden's combat is whack
It's YOU who doesn't understand what makes an action combat system good in the first place

I don't really give a shit how the combat is tied to RPG mechanics, that's just massive cope

I was just pointing out that there is nothing fun in the Morronwind leveling system except cheesing shit.

Says you

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I am being truthful, fanboy.

No, just you're being an idiotic fanboy.

Yes, I am being a fanboy by trashing your game. Logic is not your forte, is it?

What distinctions?

Play the game
Because despite your claims that you have, your posts say otherwise

Each region has mostly different fauna, flora and cultures/factions
Each region requires distinct logistics to efficiently traverse

Patently false. Each region has ... cliff-racers. And the other other 3 animals/mobs.

It's also amusing you keep lambasting Morrowind for flaw that both W3 and BotW have and it's even many times more severe
And perhaps more importantly, PoIs in Morrowidn actually make sense - they exist in perfect accordance with the worldbuilding and make logical sense
While in W3 and BotW, the dozens of PoIs exist solely to check a list

In W3, yes, but nobody besides you brings up W3 as an example of good exploration. It is great for other reasons, unlike Morronwind, which is not good at anything. In BotW, every PoI exists for a reason. Many are unique and hand-placed, and even the shrines present unique puzzles and thus are refreshing, whereas in Morronwind, you literally have 50 of each type of dungeon/PoI with barely any difference besides the exact layout/loot.

It means in games like Gothic/BotW/Elex/KCD/etc, settlements look like they would in real life, houses are placed organically, so are barns and other peripheral structures, roads are worn down, etc. In Morronwind, ffs, that main city looked like a metal upside down tub, or the interior of a modern ship. The other cities looked like parodies of settlements. Houses placed like legos with computer precision, immaculate unused roads between them, no trash.

But I won't post comparisons and go into detail, because this thread would get even more austistically derailed and frankly I have some shit I want to quickly finnish before going to bed
So unto the next

Translation: you've beat me yet again, oh Porky, I will slither into the background now...

BotW doesn't have copy-pasted PoIs

Could you please stop being disingenuous

100% true.

Only a Morronwind fanboy would keep bringing up artstyle and music.

>music and artstyle aren't significant to a game's atmosphere
Please tell me you're being obtuse just to troll me

It only feels like trolling because you are so out of your depth. Morronwind has very mediocre artstyle.

You are a prisoner who is actually the chosen one, the reincarnation of some blah blah. How unique...

How reductive and edgy...

And true...

Such as Cassius Coiades or however you spell his name, Vivec, etc.

I was asking what characters from other games you consider so special

Pretty much every character in PST, Witcha games, etc are written much better.

You can say it, but you would be just showing that you understand nothing about games.

Bitch
You think Sekiro's combat is awesome, while Ninja Gaiden's combat is whack
It's YOU who doesn't understand what makes an action combat system good in the first place

You seem upset.

I don't really give a shit how the combat is tied to RPG mechanics, that's just massive cope

I was just pointing out that there is nothing fun in the Morronwind leveling system except cheesing shit.

Says you

Ok, 2 unrelated non-sequiturs posing as a come-back... Yeah, time for you to go sleep, young man.

 

[Gamezor]

I dunno about all this but I no joke fuckin love oblivion. And I don’t care if you all think I’m a faggot for it.

 

[Late Bloomer]

I dunno about all this but I no joke fuckin love oblivion. And I don’t care if you all think I’m a faggot for it.

 

[Crispy]

I've had enough. Get back to talking about Starfield or I'm ejecting you into deep space.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

how dare you use a thread about an unreleased bethesda game to discuss the merits of the previous games they've made that will influence the design decisions of this game

 

[Crispy]

If what has happened for the last several pages is equivalent to what you just described then I wouldn't have said anything.

Hint: it's not.

 

[Falksi]

The big difference between The Witcher 3 and Morrowind is that The Witcher 3 virtually plays itself, with minimal interaction required from the player. Whereas Morrowind requires WAY more depth of interactivity to progress and complete the game.

It's not so much about which is better/worse good/bad, it's about the levels of retardation which the player is suffering from. If you struggle doing things for yourself, Witcher 3 is obviously the go-to game.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

To shift the focus of this thread back to Starfield, we should hope that Bethesda will reject the abyss of decline and instead return to the broad sunlit uplands of Morrowind, where Popamolers are filtered by being unable to find Caius Cosades.

Then Starfield will truly deserve to be Codex GotY 2023.

 

[NecroLord]

I've had enough. Get back to talking about Starfield or I'm ejecting you into deep space.

Why you gotta spoil our fun?
Leave us the fuck alone.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

You seem upset.

I'm just dumbfounded at the contrarianism and stupidity on display in your posts
Reminds me of that time when anvi told me that Thief was a shit game

 

[NecroLord]

The game allows you to create outrageous spells, like Fortify Acrobatics 1000 cast on Self. You can go even higher than that and jump from one end of Morrowind to another.
This freedom to create and shape your character in almost any way you desire and explore the world at your own pace makes Morrowind so awesome. Arena and Daggerfall did the same(Daggerfall being a personal favorite).
What does the magic in Glitcher do?
And before we talk about combat in Witcher vs the one in Morrowind, keep in mind that combat in Morrowind is based on numbers and formulas, you know, like an actual RPG.

 

[jackofshadows]

Bethestards can suck it.

 

[Sigourn]

I've played enough Morrowind to side with PorkyThePaladin on all of his criticisms of the game.

On replays Morrowind is just too boring and empty to keep my interest. "Exploration" in Morrowind feels unrewarding to me because, for the most part, there's nothing of interest to find. And the common loot you get ain't anywhere near as valuable as, say, finding a single potion in Gothic. It reminds me of the mid to late Fallout gameplay: you start killing enemies left and right and they drop these Leather and Metal Armors, Desert Eagles, 10mm SMGs, but their only use is to be turned into bottlecaps (if you find the merchants) or barter for stuff you don't really need anymore.

Bethesda has a real problem with itemization. They shower you with pointless items, it's exasperating.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

On replays Morrowind is just too boring and empty to keep my interest. "Exploration" in Morrowind feels unrewarding to me because, for the most part, there's nothing of interest to find. And the common loot you get ain't anywhere near as valuable as, say, finding a single potion in Gothic. It reminds me of the mid to late Fallout gameplay: you start killing enemies left and right and they drop these Leather and Metal Armors, Desert Eagles, 10mm SMGs, but their only use is to be turned into bottlecaps (if you find the merchants) or barter for stuff you don't really need anymore.

They're worth less than finding a single potion in gothic because that's almost the entire extent of the game's itemization. It would be like if morrowind just handed you half of the game's items at once.

 

[Sigourn]

On replays Morrowind is just too boring and empty to keep my interest. "Exploration" in Morrowind feels unrewarding to me because, for the most part, there's nothing of interest to find. And the common loot you get ain't anywhere near as valuable as, say, finding a single potion in Gothic. It reminds me of the mid to late Fallout gameplay: you start killing enemies left and right and they drop these Leather and Metal Armors, Desert Eagles, 10mm SMGs, but their only use is to be turned into bottlecaps (if you find the merchants) or barter for stuff you don't really need anymore.

They're worth less than finding a single potion in gothic because that's almost the entire extent of the game's itemization. It would be like if morrowind just handed you half of the game's items at once.

Yeah, but that's the issue here. Since when "more" = "better"? The more items, the more juggling in your inventory. This is fine if the items are worth it, but there's so much shit in Morrowind I never bothered with. Meanwhile in Fallout, I've used every single chem at my disposal in multiple occasions.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

For Starfield to be a worthwhile game it needs to:
1. Not have a voiced protagonist and divergent main/side-quests and factions
2. Expose as many of its systems as it can to modding
3. The Chinese to be interested in modding it
4. Time

 

[Robotigan]

On replays Morrowind is just too boring and empty to keep my interest.

Yeah, it lacks a lot of the improvements later TES titles made.

 

[NecroLord]

On replays Morrowind is just too boring and empty to keep my interest.

Yeah, it lacks a lot of the improvements later TES titles made.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Crispy - Keep this thread about Starfield
Rusty - It is
Crispy - No it isn't
Falski - Anyways lets compare Witcher 3 to Morrowind

 

[Robotigan]

I played Morrowind with the un-modded quest journal. Quest logs/markers are better. Otherwise any quest that you don't immediately start when you get it becomes a massive chore to come back to later. Should have saved this take for the trigger the Codex thread.

 

[NecroLord]

I played Morrowind with the un-modded quest journal. Quest logs/markers are better. Otherwise any quest that you don't immediately start when you get it becomes a massive chore to come back to later. Should have saved this take for the trigger the Codex thread.

Reading and searching through a journal? In an RPG? Blasphemy!!