Starfield Thread - now with Shattered Space horror expansion

[Cryomancer]

The list of everything bad about this game :

• Pronouns
• Railroaded tutorial
• Empty planets with nothing
• Invisible barriers
• No land or low orbit vehicles
• No attributes
• Very shallow rpg elements
• Extremely ugly NPC's
• Zero interesting factions, from the same company which made house Telvanni
• Braindead AI
• Every single named NPC is essential and you can't kill them
• Ridiculous limitations on ship building - eg - only 3 weapons and the lowest engine velocity
• Filters
• Bad optimization
• Lack of good content
• Too much focus on quantity over quality.
• Zero to no verticality in most places
• Firearms looks like toys
• No intelligent aliens
• No droids, drones and other interesting tech
• Space alien magic is just a dumbed down version of skyrim shouts
• Took more time to develop than FL3/Oblivion/Skyrim combined
• And the game is much worse than this 3
• No cool transhumanist stuff like Cyberpunk has
• Gunplay is shit
• The weapons that don't look like toys makes no sense, like double barrel shotguns in the extreme far faraway future.
• Awful soundtrack.
• Melee combat sucks way more than other first person sci fi games like CP77
• (...)

Can mods fix everything? I don't think so.

This is what comes to my mind when I think in everything that sucks about this game.

Tainted Grail : The fall of Avalon is the best "bugthesdaesque" rpg since 2002(Morrowind) and was made by 13 Polish dudes. No ESG woke bs there.

tl;dr - This game is so shit that cyberbug 2077 looks great in comparison.

 

[Vic]

Took more time to develop than FL3/Oblivion/Skyrim combined

why do you keep saying that? Skyrim was in development for 5+ years.

 

[Zeriel]

For that matter, the "basic design" of Morrowind is the one that established the 3D Open World CRPG subgenre, which has proven quite popular, even among Codexers.

Arena and Daggerfall had the same basic design. And other games had a semiopenworld format before Morrowind. Morrowind just took Arena and Daggerfall's design and put it into a smaller theme park format. That's why it's called a walking simulator.

For that matter, the "basic design" of Morrowind is the one that established the 3D Open World CRPG subgenre, which has proven quite popular, even among Codexers.

There are Codexers with poor taste. News at 11.

edit: Zed Duke of Banville no, not just a cool story. Gothic came out in 2001, for example.

The irony is I think Starfield represents the destruction of that design. Everything that is remotely good about the Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim model is obliterated by Starfield's attempt to shove a bunch of randomly created but boring content into the game. It's like if you were actually incentivized and misled into thinking you're supposed to do those Radiant quests in Skyrim nonstop, and it constituted 50-75% of the game.

They really need to rethink this shit for TES6. Oh who am I kidding, they'll double down, because muh marketing.

 

[Silverfish]

Melee combat sucks way more than other first person sci fi games like CP77

Add to that, Beth still haven't reinstated fatigue damage for unarmed combat.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

It's like if you were actually incentivized and misled into thinking you're supposed to do those Radiant quests in Skyrim nonstop, and it constituted 50-75% of the game.

Skyrim's writing is so bad that I would rather this than most of the quests in the game.

But yes, late-game Skyrim, once all the areas are explored, I could see the gameplay being similar. Fast travel from point A to point B, repeat.

They really need to rethink this shit for TES6. Oh who am I kidding, they'll double down, because muh marketing.

I don't see why it'd be too different from Skyrim. No real need to hack together a fast travel system.

But TES6 is in Redguard, so expect 90% googly-eyed black people with the occasional Argonian, Khajit or Elf.

Part of me is convinced that all of this kowtowing is just to trick black people into being semi-patriotic so that they'll be willing to die in WW3.

 

[Vic]

It's like if you were actually incentivized and misled into thinking you're supposed to do those Radiant quests in Skyrim nonstop, and it constituted 50-75% of the game.

?????

There is a shit ton of Bethesda-quality sidequests in the cities that will keep you engaged for hours. The radiant quests are fun to do for some combat xp/loot but they are only tangential to the actual hand-crafted content in the game.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

In fairness, a lot of space games have similar fast travel mechanics. The difference is, there's usually more space between the fast travel point and the destination:

Exit atmosphere > fly past space stations etc. to edge of system (jump point/gate/edge of gravity well) > next system starts at the edge of the system > fly past stations etc. and down to planet, or land at a space station.

But Starfield's pipeline seems to usually be just:

Fast travel to space > fast travel to next system > fast travel to the surface.

 

[Vic]

Fast travel to space > fast travel to next system > fast travel to the surface.

no, you can fast travel from anywhere to anywhere if you've already been in that solar system. If you haven't, you can only fast travel into orbit first, and then you can fast travel to any ground location in that solar system from then on onward from anywhere else in the game. If you've explored a good chunk, it's basically: accept quest, fast travel to the destination, do quest, fast travel back to turn it in. There's really not much spacesim stuff imo, so it should be compared to games like Fallout 3/4 and Elder Scrolls and not to No Man's Sky imo.

 

[Zeriel]

It's like if you were actually incentivized and misled into thinking you're supposed to do those Radiant quests in Skyrim nonstop, and it constituted 50-75% of the game.

?????

There is a shit ton of Bethesda-quality sidequests in the cities that will keep you engaged for hours. The radiant quests are fun to do for some combat xp/loot but they are only tangential to the actual hand-crafted content in the game.

Yes, but there is nothing that communicates you to this in the game, and plenty that implies you should be doing the procgen content. Like surveying/planet exploration as a mechanic in general.

It's like saying it's perfectly acceptable to have to root around in a trash bin to get the meal you paid for at a restaurant.

More to the point, the main appeal of Bethesda games post Daggerfall is exploring handcrafted environments, and the sense of world they impart. The gameworld being filled with lots of unimportant, not-designed places already detracts from this sense of world. Then you add on top the UI fails that make exploration even in the hand-crafted places almost impossible, and you've got a big problem. There is no magical moment like in Skyrim where you accidentally stumble into that huge underground Dwemer city through a series of interconnected caverns. Starfield takes "everything has a marker" and menu-itis to an extreme that we couldn't even imagine back in Skyrim days, which is funny since people complained about it there too.

Decline is infinite in breadth, I suppose. What's truly amazing here is Bethesda bragging about their design strengths... then completely abandoning them here.

 

[Vic]

Yes, but there is nothing that communicates you to this in the game, and plenty that implies you should be doing the procgen content. Like surveying/planet exploration as a mechanic in general.

agreed, they failed with the hand holding in this game

It's like saying it's perfectly acceptable to have to root around in a trash bin to get the meal you paid for at a restaurant.

you won't find a good meal in the trash, overwhelming majority of the hand-crafted content is in the cities (new atlantis, akila, neon) and outposts (cydonia, gagarin, etc.)

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

no, you can fast travel from anywhere to anywhere if you've already been in that solar system. If you haven't, you can only fast travel into orbit first, and then you can fast travel to any ground location in that solar system from then on onward from anywhere else in the game. If you've explored a good chunk, it's basically: accept quest, fast travel to the destination, do quest, fast travel back to turn it in. There's really not much spacesim stuff imo, so it should be compared to games like Fallout 3/4 and Elder Scrolls and not to No Man's Sky imo.

Wow. Worse than I thought.

But are there space stations you can land at and take on cargo, trade etc.?

Are there viable trade routes to learn or any sort of economy?

 

[Vic]

But are there space stations you can land at and take on cargo, trade etc.?

yes there are locations in space like space stations and abandoned ships. there is one particular quest that starts in gagarin that sends you to recover an alcohol shipment from an abandoned ship drifting in space. their gravity reactor is busted so it constantly alternates between normal gravity and zero-G, which you can use to progress through the ship/dungeon as the elevator is not working and other parts are busted.

Are there viable trade routes to learn or any sort of economy?

trade routes? I think you are comparing it to spacesim games again. You can fast travel between merchants and buy out all their stock, which restocks every 48 UT hours, like in their previous games. Make no mistake, it's still a Bethesda game.

 

[Zeriel]

no, you can fast travel from anywhere to anywhere if you've already been in that solar system. If you haven't, you can only fast travel into orbit first, and then you can fast travel to any ground location in that solar system from then on onward from anywhere else in the game. If you've explored a good chunk, it's basically: accept quest, fast travel to the destination, do quest, fast travel back to turn it in. There's really not much spacesim stuff imo, so it should be compared to games like Fallout 3/4 and Elder Scrolls and not to No Man's Sky imo.

Wow. Worse than I thought.

But are there space stations you can land at and take on cargo, trade etc.?

Are there viable trade routes to learn or any sort of economy?

There's no economy. There are cargo-hauling "quests" (radiant tasks from mission terminals), but they are just, accept mission, cargo is automatically loaded to ship, go to planet, cargo is automatically offloaded and credits/XP generated, no flavor or even dialogue associated.

 

[Vic]

no, you can fast travel from anywhere to anywhere if you've already been in that solar system. If you haven't, you can only fast travel into orbit first, and then you can fast travel to any ground location in that solar system from then on onward from anywhere else in the game. If you've explored a good chunk, it's basically: accept quest, fast travel to the destination, do quest, fast travel back to turn it in. There's really not much spacesim stuff imo, so it should be compared to games like Fallout 3/4 and Elder Scrolls and not to No Man's Sky imo.

Wow. Worse than I thought.

But are there space stations you can land at and take on cargo, trade etc.?

Are there viable trade routes to learn or any sort of economy?

There's no economy. There are cargo-hauling "quests" (radiant tasks from mission terminals), but they are just, accept mission, cargo is automatically loaded to ship, go to planet, cargo is automatically offloaded and credits/XP generated, no flavor or even dialogue associated.

correct but there are also larger cargo delivery quests you can accept for the major shipyards, which do have some dialogue, more or less.

 

[Narax]

I think i finished about 70% of the content so far. The main questline sucks except for two missions, most faction quests have an interesting premise but they either have nonsensical outcomes or end prematurely (Strikers, Vanguard, and Rangers). The best questlines are Ryujin, Crimson Fleet/Sysdef, and the colony ship.

Companions suck big time, probably the worst i've seen in any game, they all have the same goody two shoes personality, so good luck trying to play a morally grey or evil character without hearing them bitch and whine every ten minutes (space karen will even bitch at you when you ask certain types of questions or make sarcastic comments). There are quite a few interesting characters that could have worked well as morally grey or evil companions, like some characters from sysdef, ryujin, and the strikers, but instead we ended up with the most boring characters in the game, thanks Todd.

Worldbuilding and lore are nonexistent, many of the factions make no sense, especially the space cowboys who live in a bunch of mud huts and somehow ended up defeating the most advanced faction in the galaxy. Creature design is forgettable and uninspired, I don't even remember a single one of them. Don't waste your time exploring planets, there is literally nothing to see.

Overall the game makes me want to play Mass Effect or the Technomancer for the proper sci fi experience.

 

[Vic]

especially the space cowboys who live in a bunch of mud huts and somehow ended up defeating the most advanced faction in the galaxy.

that's not fair, Akila is kind of a dump, but Neon, HopeTown and The Clinic are also part of the Freestar Collective. Neon is rich as fuck being Starfield's Sin City and also has advanced cybertech due to Ryujin, HopeTown has a lot of industrial construction going on and the Clinic is the most advanced hospital in the Settled Systems.

 

[Zeriel]

I think i finished about 70% of the content so far. The main questline sucks except for two missions, most faction quests have an interesting premise but they either have nonsensical outcomes or end prematurely (Strikers, Vanguard, and Rangers). The best questlines are Ryujin, Crimson Fleet/Sysdef, and the colony ship.

Companions suck big time, probably the worst i've seen in any game, they all have the same goody two shoes personality, so good luck trying to play a morally grey or evil character without hearing them bitch and whine every ten minutes (space karen will even bitch at you when you ask certain types of questions or make sarcastic comments). There are quite a few interesting characters that could have worked well as morally grey or evil companions, like some characters from sysdef, ryujin, and the strikers, but instead we ended up with the most boring characters in the game, thanks Todd.

Worldbuilding and lore are nonexistent, many of the factions make no sense, especially the space cowboys who live in a bunch of mud huts and somehow ended up defeating the most advanced faction in the galaxy. Creature design is forgettable and uninspired, I don't even remember a single one of them. Don't waste your time exploring planets, there is literally nothing to see.

Overall the game makes me want to play Mass Effect or the Technomancer for the proper sci fi experience.

I think the worst part about the companions is that there are dialogues where you have no choice in responses whatsoever. It's all positive. There's not even a rude reply in some of them. It's amazing to see Fallout 4 look good in comparison, it's like they just keep getting lazier. Strange because even in some of their dumbest games they showed a facility for a lot better than this (i.e Fallout 3 dialogues).

 

[Vic]

Starfield's companions can get angry at you, which is funny. Sarah was angry at me for stealing a baguette or something, and when I would talk to her she would say "I want to be alone right now", "Go away already", etc. Kind of funny, but I could still talk to her like normal, just some flavor text I think.

 

[Narax]

especially the space cowboys who live in a bunch of mud huts and somehow ended up defeating the most advanced faction in the galaxy.

that's not fair, Akila is kind of a dump, but Neon, HopeTown and The Clinic are also part of the Freestar Collective. Neon is rich as fuck being Starfield's Sin City and also has advanced cybertech due to Ryujin, HopeTown has a lot of industrial construction going on and the Clinic is the most advanced hospital in the Settled Systems.

It still doesnt make sense that the oldest settlement and the seat of the government looks like a shithole in comparison, we're talking about a spacefaring civilization here, not a post-apocalyptic chiefdom, I guess they just really like the cowboy aesthetics. However, now that you mention it, the FC does indeed have an edge since they have the Clinic and Neon.

I think the worst part about the companions is that there are dialogues where you have no choice in responses whatsoever. It's all positive. There's not even a rude reply in some of them. It's amazing to see Fallout 4 look good in comparison, it's like they just keep getting lazier. Strange because even in some of their dumbest games they showed a facility for a lot better than this (i.e Fallout 3 dialogues).

It's especially annoying you can't tell them to stfu when they make a snide comment while you're in the middle of a conversation with another character.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

trade routes? I think you are comparing it to spacesim games again.

Of course I am. People have been since it was announced.

For non-Bugthesda fans, the only draw to the game is that it's a space game.

For Bugthesda fans, they already tolerate 90% of the jank and just want Fallout 3 in space.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

no, you can fast travel from anywhere to anywhere if you've already been in that solar system. If you haven't, you can only fast travel into orbit first, and then you can fast travel to any ground location in that solar system from then on onward from anywhere else in the game. If you've explored a good chunk, it's basically: accept quest, fast travel to the destination, do quest, fast travel back to turn it in. There's really not much spacesim stuff imo, so it should be compared to games like Fallout 3/4 and Elder Scrolls and not to No Man's Sky imo.

Starfield abandoned the Open World RPG subgenre that Bethesda Softworks established in Morrowind and continued with Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim, and Fallout 4. There are procedurally-generated environments that the player can run around, but nothing resembling the hand-crafted overworld which dominated that series of games. Arguably, Starfield is closer to Daggerfall and Arena, but those games offered vast, complex dungeons to roam around, which are also lacking in Starfield. There is a void when it comes to Starfield's fundamental gameplay loop.

 

[Vic]

Of course I am. People have been since it was announced.

and that was their mistake

For non-Bugthesda fans, the only draw to the game is that it's a space game.

space game as in its set in space? Because that's the only thing it is, it's not a space sim. So people who didn't like Fallout 4 and Skyrim, there might not be much to like here either.

There is a void when it comes to Starfield's fundamental gameplay loop.

a void as in space, right.

Seriously tho, that's a big issue with the game which is the lack of interesting locations to explore. I can imagine a few things which they could've added, but didn't. Like space cultist shrines, more smaller settlements with quests, etc. Will they still add it with DLCs? Or will modders add them? Who knows, but right now game is severely lacking in exploration outside of the few cities and outposts. Still, you can actually spend many hours exploring these. Reminds me of playing Planescape: Torment where most of your exploration happens within Sigil. Kind of similar, but a weird design decision for a game of this type.

 

[Shaki]

trade routes? I think you are comparing it to spacesim games again.

Of course I am. People have been since it was announced.

For non-Bugthesda fans, the only draw to the game is that it's a space game.

For Bugthesda fans, they already tolerate 90% of the jank and just want Fallout 3 in space.

Not even Bugthesda fans probably like it that much, even compared to FO3, the game is just so souless. It's such a PG13 theme park, FO at least had interesting setting that Bethesda couldn't COMPLETELY screw up, TES games had some charm and ocassional decent side quest, but Starfield just sucks. It's the worst, most nonsensical and uninteresting setting Bethesda ever did, and it's so sanitized that even woke crowd bitches about it. Shit has absolutely no redeeming qualities, I was hating on BG3 quite a lot, but compared to this dogshit, BG3 looks like an absolute masterpiece.

 

[Vic]

Not even Bugthesda fans probably like it that much, even compared to FO3, the game is just so souless. It's such a PG13 theme park, FO at least had interesting setting that Bethesda couldn't COMPLETELY screw up, TES games had some charm and ocassional decent side quest, but Starfield just sucks. It's the worst, most nonsensical and uninteresting setting Bethesda ever did, and it's so sanitized that even woke crowd bitches about it. Shit has absolutely no redeeming qualities, I was hating on BG3 quite a lot, but compared to this dogshit, BG3 looks like an absolute masterpiece.

Agreed 100%

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

and that was their mistake

No, because every Freelancer-like space game for the past few decades has had some basic features like trading, pirating, freelancing etc.

If you're going to make a space game and then leave out a feature people are used to, that's going to be a pretty big deal, and you should probably prepare them for it - like they tried to do with the lack of seemless planet landing, something that several recent space games have had, but they failed to do with the way "exploring" planets works.

PR fail.

That's why you had people here comparing Starfield to Starcitizen and Elite: Dangerous for months.

space game as in its set in space? Because that's the only thing it is, it's not a space sim. So people who didn't like Fallout 4 and Skyrim, there might not be much to like here either.

Again:

For Bugthesda fans, they already tolerate 90% of the jank and just want Fallout 3 in space.

All you were looking for as a Bethesda fan was Fallout 3 in space. But I don't care about Fallout 3. I just want a space game with the barebones features that every other free-roaming space game seems to have.

What's the point of adding cargo pods to your ship if the only cargo you can carry is random loot? What's the point of outposts if they don't mine resources for you to sell to the highest bidder? They copied asteroid mining from other space sims, along with a lot of other features, but left out trade. Oof.

I bet it will take some modder a month or two after the toolkit is released next year to slap together a serviceable trading system that will give players at least something to do besides fight the same slow dogfights over and over, or explore randomly generated filler content.