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Starfield Thread - now with Shattered Space horror expansion

Zlaja

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
6,117
Location
Swedex
if they don't like starfield they will look to other games to make their sub worth it and might get hooked on those instead, these people know how to make money.

Well, Microsoft doesn't know how to make the Xbox brand profitable. And they've been trying for 4 console generations. Only made it for a few measly years with the 360.

I am surprised to see the reviewers reviewing a Bethesda game more realistically though.
F5XSweqXcAArpEk

I've heard of maybe five of those. Starting to think Starfield procedurally generates review outlets.

How dare you imply that a 5/5 from AFTONBLADET or a 96/100 from IMTEST is not worthy of celebration!

Aftonbladet is a Swedish newspaper, and you'd have to be a mega normie to give two shits about their amateur reviews.
 

GaelicVigil

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
412
I'm having a hard time even calling this an RPG. Compare the amount of "role-play" choices in this game versus something like Star Wars KOTOR. In KOTOR you have a plethora of ways to customize your character, from a scoundrel, hacker, sniper, thief, to pilot, conversationalist.

I feel like every class in Starfield is just "First Person Shooter". These perks don't change anything really, they're just fluff.

And the more I compare this to something like Skyrim, I realize how many of the "little" things are gone. Things we used to take for granted. For example, in all prior Bethesda RPGs when you loot a body, their individual clothing or armor comes off of them. That doesn't happen here.

Also, what happened to the amazing NPC schedules and behaviors of past games. NPCs would go to sleep, work at their jobs, travel the countryside. Every single NPC in a Skyrim town had a real place there. Remember when you held your weapon up to an NPC in Skyrim, they would get mad? They don't do that here at all. They pretend you don't exist no matter how you behave. The NPCs are just generated drones here.

What happened to kill-cams? The list goes on and on. The world is just a series of instanced boxes. Nothing is connected at all. It's like a designer loading a "set piece" in 3D Studio. Nothing is real here. You press a key and you teleport to another box instance. This game has no SOUL. It is flat and boring and plain. Mechanically speaking, the game feels like something made from 30 years ago. Technically, Starfield's world is no more advanced than King's Quest. A series of soulless, independent rooms.

This isn't an RPG like Skyrim or Oblivion. It's a FPS with some customization. I'm not being hyperbolic. This is Call of Duty with some more options.
 

Zlaja

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
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I'm currently watching a stream of the game and the guy playing it was just in a firefight inside a ship with that Sarah character. After the gunfight he looked down and noticed Sarah was lying stiff on the floor. He then initiated a conversation with a character he was supposed to save, and in the middle of the talk, Sarah started talking to the NPC while the camera zoomed in on her STILL lying on the floor.

I laughed so hard, I started tearing up.
 

darkpatriot

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
6,310
Despite what people say the walkable gameworld has total connectivity, even if it isn't seemless.

You start at location A -> Move into your ship -> Your ship moves to location B -> You get off your ship and move into location B. So people are really only complaining about fast travel, which is nothing new for Bethesda games. But you can completely walk everywhere you need to walk logically to get from any point A to any point B in the game just like in previous Bethesda games.

:smug:

Space travel doesn't have connectivity, though, but I think there is good reason for that. Empty space between dozens (more than 100?) of star systems and 1,000 planets doesn't need to exist in the game.
 

Non-Edgy Gamer

Grand Dragon
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Strap Yourselves In
And the more I compare this to something like Skyrim, I realize how many of the "little" things are gone. Things we used to take for granted. For example, in all prior Bethesda RPGs when you loot a body, their individual clothing or armor comes off of them. That doesn't happen here.
>release similar game on same engine
>streamline the design to lower development costs
>repeat
Every generation of Bethesda fans has gotten a chance to be disappointed by dumbed-down gameplay.

I remember when people were mad that axes became blunt weapons in Oblivion.
 

Non-Edgy Gamer

Grand Dragon
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Strap Yourselves In
Despite what people say the walkable gameworld has total connectivity, even if it isn't seemless.
You're just generating a new area with the same seed when "exploring" a cell next to whatever cell you started in. I think that's the main complaint.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
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Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
Compare the amount of "role-play" choices
This is a bugbear of mine but hyperfocusing on the term 'roleplaying' is myopic and nonsensical, and never applied to other genres such as 'SHMUPs'. It's a term that caught on through popularity, not accuracy.

Like it or not (c)RPG means games where you kill stuff, loot, and level up, and Starfield counts.
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Tomorrow:

Join us for an evening of music as the London Symphony Orchestra performs selections from Starfield's soundtrack at LSO St. Luke’s, composed by the legendary Inon Zur.

 

GaelicVigil

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
412
Compare the amount of "role-play" choices
This is a bugbear of mine but hyperfocusing on the term 'roleplaying' is myopic and nonsensical, and never applied to other genres such as 'SHMUPs'. It's a term that caught on through popularity, not accuracy.

Like it or not (c)RPG means games where you kill stuff, loot, and level up, and Starfield counts.
True, and I'd say Starfield is as much a role-playing game as modern Madden or an NBA sports games. You create a career character, load into different screens to train your skills, buy perks, and play games (missions). Real-time Immersion and interconnectivity is not present in any of these games. You're just moving from one instanced "event" to the next to gain skills and complete career goals.
 

GaelicVigil

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
412
I will also add that whatever "concurrent players" Steam or Xbox states you must cut that number by 30% because that's approximately how much time all those players are sitting in loading screens or running across an empty planet, or listening to some bullshit dialog, not "playing" at all
 

Wasteland

Educated
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Messages
139
I'm currently watching a stream of the game and the guy playing it was just in a firefight inside a ship with that Sarah character. After the gunfight he looked down and noticed Sarah was lying stiff on the floor. He then initiated a conversation with a character he was supposed to save, and in the middle of the talk, Sarah started talking to the NPC while the camera zoomed in on her STILL lying on the floor.

I laughed so hard, I started tearing up.

 

Robotigan

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Messages
420
Compare the amount of "role-play" choices
This is a bugbear of mine but hyperfocusing on the term 'roleplaying' is myopic and nonsensical, and never applied to other genres such as 'SHMUPs'. It's a term that caught on through popularity, not accuracy.

Like it or not (c)RPG means games where you kill stuff, loot, and level up, and Starfield counts.
True, and I'd say Starfield is as much a role-playing game as modern Madden or an NBA sports games. You create a career character, load into different screens to train your skills, buy perks, and play games (missions). Real-time Immersion and interconnectivity is not present in any of these games. You're just moving from one instanced "event" to the next to gain skills and complete career goals.
What the hell are you talking about? Minus the inclusion of fast travel, there is no structural difference between the way games like Fallout and Pathfinder handle their overworld and the way Starfield handles its overworld. Its weird for Bethesda, but very common in RPGs as a whole. And I'ma keep it real wit you, dawg. The primary reason Madden Career Mode isn't considered and RPG is because nerds hate sportsball. Which is a shame because sports are some of the most battle-tested game concepts out there.
 

Ben Zyklon

Educated
Joined
Aug 30, 2023
Messages
116
I think people liking the game is fine but blatantly lying or using gaslighting to people with criticism of the game is a mental disorder (fanboyism aka narcissism).
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
13,140
It wasn't the same in previous Bethesda games; there was a sense of continuity. You had expansive landscapes around you, and when you opened a dungeon door, it felt like entering the dungeons even if theres a one min load time. Here, it's completely disjointed and feels extremely artificial moving from instances to instances , with walls everywhere.
I'm having a hard time even calling this an RPG.
Compare the amount of "role-play" choices
This is a bugbear of mine but hyperfocusing on the term 'roleplaying' is myopic and nonsensical, and never applied to other genres such as 'SHMUPs'. It's a term that caught on through popularity, not accuracy.

Like it or not (c)RPG means games where you kill stuff, loot, and level up, and Starfield counts.
Starfield is the Open World space RPG that isn't Open World, isn't (much of) an RPG, and isn't even really a space game. :M

The reliance on procedural generation and fast travel between disconnected areas means that Starfield, even if it were otherwise closer to Bethesda's previous games, would be more similar to Arena and Daggerfall rather than the Open World RPG subgenre established by Morrowind and continued, with repeated dumbing down "streamlining", in Oblivion, Fallout 3 (and Obsidian's Fallout: New Vegas), Skyrim, and Fallout 4. Starfield does not contain the type of overworld exploration that was the focus of Morrowind and its successors, since the most you can do is run around a procedurally-generated area without anything interesting in terms of the landscape or elements found on that landscape. Moreover, it does not even contain the sort of vast, sprawling dungeons found in Bethesda's first two RPGs, but instead has bases that are procedurally-generated but much smaller and yet more repetitive than those found in Daggerfall.

Bethesda had already eliminated attributes in Skyrim and similarly skimped on the character-related RPG elements of Fallout 4 (which I've never played), but Starfield is even worse than Skyrim in this regard since each skill has just five levels (counting an initial zero level) and no perks besides those associated with each skill level past the initial zero. Equipment is now the typical sort found in a "looter-shooter" game rather than an RPG. Exploration, as noted above, is quite lacking, since Starfield lacks both the hand-crafted overworld of Morrowind and its successors but doesn't have much in the way of dungeons either. Combat is more or less that found in Fallout 3 or Fallout: New Vegas, except without VATS so it is even closer to that of an FPS.

Moreover, the only time spent is space is that spent during the spaceship combat, which is similar to, but probably worse than, the spaceship combat of the game Spacebourne, which was created by a single Turk. Otherwise, the player simply fast travels to the next planet, attempting to minimize the number of loading screens, which means avoiding being in space itself whenever possible.
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Starfield is the Open World space RPG that isn't Open World, isn't (much of) an RPG, and isn't even really a space game.
This is so damning, I started smiling.

I so wanted this to be good, I swear. I think my mind is set: I'll either wait for a freebie, or sail the high seas once I'm bored with BG III and/or any current fascinations I may have.



Also, not replying to the above poster, but Akila is an Indian name. Are things making sense, yet?
 

Non-Edgy Gamer

Grand Dragon
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Glory to Ukraine
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Messages
17,656
Strap Yourselves In
Starfield, even if it were otherwise closer to Bethesda's previous games, would be more similar to Arena and Daggerfall
Except you can actually walk or ride from area to area in Daggerfall if you want. The only thing fast-travel-only was sailing, which was basically just a larp.

You could actually explore areas in DF, it just wasn't necessary or really intended that you should. It reminds me of Arcanum in that way.

The gameplay may feel similar, but the design is completely different.
 

Agame

Arcane
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Joined
Mar 29, 2015
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I cum from a land down under
Insert Title Here
The reliance on procedural generation and fast travel between disconnected areas means that Starfield, even if it were otherwise closer to Bethesda's previous games, would be more similar to Arena and Daggerfall rather than the Open World RPG subgenre established by Morrowind and continued, with repeated dumbing down "streamlining", in Oblivion, Fallout 3 (and Obsidian's Fallout: New Vegas), Skyrim, and Fallout 4. Starfield does not contain the type of overworld exploration that was the focus of Morrowind and its successors, since the most you can do is run around a procedurally-generated area without anything interesting in terms of the landscape or elements found on that landscape. Moreover, it does not even contain the sort of vast, sprawling dungeons found in Bethesda's first two RPGs, but instead has bases that are procedurally-generated but much smaller and yet more repetitive than those found in Daggerfall.

This is quite shocking as its about the only good thing Beth had going since Morrowind, designing an open world that was hand crafted and not proc gen. In fact something you would see over and over in reviews for the Fallouts/Skyrim etc is people praising Bethesdas 'environmental storytelling'. Regardless of wether you actually think it was of value it was something they were known for and to completely abandon it in favour of a 'No Mans Sky Lite' style of world is baffling to me.

And regarding NMS I am shocked that no one is complaining how shamelessly they have ripped off that game for the planet design and gameplay, even the main quest 'temples' are just a version of those blob sphere anomaly 'temples' in NMS.
 

Aphex81

Scholar
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Messages
162
Ok so here are my thoughts on the game:
It's shit.

There is a major shift with Starfield compared to older Bethesda titles towards a focus on "story". Todd bragged about 8.000.000 words no?
The problem is that if you focus on story you have to make every archetype work within that story if you try to be a role playing game.
If you now say play as pirate archetype what do you get? You get 5 hours of content and that's it. You can't then go on and play the main story as a "pirate".
You get 5 hours of story and then you can jump from system to system trying to find some ships to mug. How long is that fun?
Todd is a fucking retard.
He saw Cyberpunk and said...i want some of that ! A corpo espionage story was born in the city of "neon" *wink wink*
He saw Minecraft and said...i want some of that ! A terrible base building and resource gathering mechanic was born.
He saw Starship troopers and thought...i can do that with my deathclaw spin on it ! Terrors were born.
And so on.
This enitre game is cobbled toghether shit someone thought was cool with zero coherrence.
It's a themepark, a medley of scifi themes and game genres.

It's just shit.
Ship building is cool though.
 

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