Review Stealth Game Codex Review: Mark of the Ninja

[Murk]

Oh god leave off of it. We have a general gaming section for a reason. Gamers like to game, and if people are willing to review non-RPGs in a manner that is informative and well-done then I welcome it.

 

[mondblut]

Oh god leave off of it. We have a general gaming section for a reason. Gamers like to game, and if people are willing to review non-RPGs in a manner that is informative and well-done then I welcome it.

We have GD for a reason, too. Now I fully expect Nomask to be tasked to pen an official Codex editorial on why jews are to blame for all ills of the earth.

 

[Murk]

GD, in and of itself, is fine. The fuckwits that infest it are a different story. Likewise, if we reviewed non-RPGs I would expect them to be games of some note, not the next Mario or Call of Duty. Logic, and all that.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Square Enix is about to release their new take on Hitman franchise, which by all accounts holds great promise

Ah yes, there is a lag between the review being submitted and published. Let me correct that.

The "holds great promise" part also needs to be corrected.

 

[Mrowak]

mondblut

First of all: come the fuck on! It was a review of a quite interesting, novel game I think any Codexer should get familiar with other than. What is wrong with that?

Secondly: what is an RPG? I know you long enough mondblut - your definition applies to tactical combat games, plus maybe some sandboxes. They are fine and all, but even in PnP terms they constitute a subgenre of a larger whole. My point is there are many ways to stray away from the classic model, and not all of them is pure derp-decline.

Thirdly: although the RPG-like character progression in MotN is simplistic, I find it is better realised than in most actual RPGs in recent years. Enemies remain deadly throughout the game and every skill you acquire, every item you use, every armour you wear can have a profound impacy on gameplay that doesn't just come down to random stats. It actually affects what player is doing, as opposed to dice rolls, which invaraibly results in all kinds of nonsense.

Ability-based character progression >>>>>>>> Stat-based character progression, even if the former is in a simple stealth platformer game.

 

[mondblut]

First of all: come the fuck on! It was a review of a quite interesting, novel game I think any Codexer should get familiar with other than. What is wrong with that?

Last time I checked, RPG Codex was devoted to RPGs, not "interesting novel games". I am not interested in "novel games", I come to an RPG site for information on, duh, RPGs.

Secondly: what is an RPG? I know you long enough mondblut - your definition applies to tactical combat games, plus maybe some sandboxes. They are fine and all, but even in PnP terms they constitute a subgenre of a larger whole. My point is there are many ways to stray away from the classic model, and not all of them is pure derp-decline.

An RPG that fails at combat or freedom may still be an RPG, if shitty one. A platformer, strategy, action-adventure or someshit with "RPG elements" tacked onto it is not, irrelevant of "my" definition.

It pissed me to no end to see all kinds of RTS and FPS crap being covered on sites like RPGdot back in the day just because they happened to have "levels", even though that could be understood since RPGs themselves (as opposed to "someshits with 'RPG elements'") hardly produced 3 news items worth posting per year. Thankfully, the Codex was free of that shit and remained a hardcore RPG site. Yet now, just when RPGs experience a massive resurgence in news output (if not in final products), the Codex decides being an RPG-exclusive site is so 2000-s and we need to open our eyes to JRPGs, action-adventures and platformers?

FUCK YOU.

Enemies remain deadly throughout the game and every skill you acquire, every item you use, every armour you wear can have a profound impacy on gameplay that doesn't just come down to random stats.

Cool, just like in Doom?

It actually affects what player is doing, as opposed to dice rolls, which invaraibly results in all kinds of nonsense.

Ability-based character progression >>>>>>>> Stat-based character progression.

What the fuck are you doing on this site, again?

 

[Marsal]

mondblut Why are you being so difficult, bro? Can't we all just get along? There is room for all of us here. Different games just enrich the site.

Anyway, if you don't like it, no one is stopping you writing reviews of games you like. Not everyone has the same taste in games as you do, you know? Check your privilege, bro!

 

[mondblut]

Why are you being so difficult, bro? Can't we all just get along? There is room for all of us here. Different games just enrich the site.

 

[Marsal]

mondblut Chill out, bro. No one is forcing you to read it. It's not like it's on the front page or something. Just ignore it. If you can tolerate GD you can let one innocent review slide.

God, some people are so entitled! Who can even tell what an RPG is anymore? It's ROLE playing, not ROLL playing, bro. Get with the times!

 

[mondblut]

It's not like it's on the front page or something.

It's ROLE playing, not ROLL playing, bro. Get with the times!

 

[Marsal]

It's not like it's on the front page or something.

It's ROLE playing, not ROLL playing, bro. Get with the times!

Come on, bro! That's worth at least 2 trolls!

Mrowak Do Sengoku Rance review next! I see some people listing it in their top 25 RPGs, so I guess that makes it worthy of a review. That will surely incline the site and bring us an influx of new members.

 

[Murk]

Haha, despite my stance that it doesn't bother me, I can't help but appreciate the rancor.

 

[Mrowak]

First of all: come the fuck on! It was a review of a quite interesting, novel game I think any Codexer should get familiar with other than. What is wrong with that?

Last time I checked, RPG Codex was devoted to RPGs, not "interesting novel games". I am not interested in "novel games", I come to an RPG site for information on, duh, RPGs.

How is MotN not an RPG?

Secondly: what is an RPG? I know you long enough mondblut - your definition applies to tactical combat games, plus maybe some sandboxes. They are fine and all, but even in PnP terms they constitute a subgenre of a larger whole. My point is there are many ways to stray away from the classic model, and not all of them is pure derp-decline.

An RPG that fails at combat or freedom may still be an RPG, if shitty one. A platformer, strategy, action-adventure or someshit with "RPG elements" tacked onto it is not, irrelevant of "my" definition.

MotN does not fail at (stealth) combat and has greater freedom than most so called RPGs in recent years. That it chooses to focus on a 2D platformer framework is a design choice not very different from e.g. FPP RPGs (Daggerfall) or top-down view (Dark Sun). The question stands: what is an RPG?

It pissed me to no end to see all kinds of RTS and FPS crap being covered on sites like RPGdot back in the day just because they happened to have "levels", even though that could be understood since RPGs themselves (as opposed to "someshits with 'RPG elements'") hardly produced 3 news items worth posting per year. Thankfully, the Codex was free of that shit and remained a hardcore RPG site. Yet now, just when RPGs experience a massive resurgence in news output (if not in final products), the Codex decides being an RPG-exclusive site is so 2000-s and we need to open our eyes to JRPGs, action-adventures and platformers?

Well that beats whining about how things declined. At least MotN is some incline. Personally I am sick and tired of the old formula of impotence mixed with nostalgia that prevents us from enjoying any progress there is.

Also, quite frankly I do not want older games to come back as they were. From my RPGs I want:

a) for them to be much more sophisticated versions of their noble antecedents;
b) for them to create completely new subbgenres of games and play around with all formulas and adding tonnes of new solutions.

The second point is something you won't agree with. To clarify: I feel that many games of the old were basically quite fresh, innovative inventions and much of the reason Codex enjoys them is because of how varied they were in the way they approached gameplay back in the day. As soon as things went stale and devs started to actually simplify old solutions instead of coming up with new ones we landed in the shit we are in. Example: Daggerfal vs. Skyrim - the decline in the number of features couldn't be more obvious. Mass Effect series is just a poor combination of a shooter and RPG, which fails to even deliver the best of the two worlds, not to mention add anything new. NWN2 is a broken mess that gameplaywise is even worse then Infinity Engine games. That's "innovashun" for you.

And here we have MotN, which although simple like hell at least tries something - tries, succeeds and delivers 100% incline. I genuinely believe it is a good RPG(-like) game, and if we kept receiving only products of this amount of polish and attention to detail, I couldn't care less about the "pure-breed RPGs" nonsense because that's a childish play with labels, we have never been able to agree on to begin with.

It actually affects what player is doing, as opposed to dice rolls, which invaraibly results in all kinds of nonsense.

Ability-based character progression >>>>>>>> Stat-based character progression.

What the fuck are you doing on this site, again?

Bringing And what have you been doing on this site over all those years? Crying your tears over a "dead" genre, and little else.

You know what? How about writing an editorial, a retrospective or your own review for the 'Dex? I am not being sarcastic here. It's not FUCK YOU I send in your general direction. You are one of the most knowledgeable members, you know square fucktonnes of older titles. You can easily highlight for us - younger members - what was so amazing about those games, and which of their elements you consider to be a must in modern RPGs. If you yourself cannot be arsed to do anything about the then it only means you too - just like Bio and Bethdrones - believe that your favourite take on RPGs deserves nothing but slow, quiet death.

And coming back to the general comment I do believe using abilities are far more important to have in an RPG than stats - which to my mind can only serve a descriptive, auxiliary role. After all whereas using abilities your PC acquired in the game is gameplay, rolling dice in a spastic fashion to see what happens is not.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

It's not like it's on the front page or something.

It's ROLE playing, not ROLL playing, bro. Get with the times!

Come on, bro! That's worth at least 2 trolls!

Mrowak Do Sengoku Rance review next! I see some people listing it in their top 25 RPGs, so I guess that makes it worthy of a review. That will surely incline the site and bring us an influx of new members.

It's okay my brother, no one is going to judge you for liking Sengoku Rance.

 

[SCO]

We wont?

 

[Jasede]

Maybe if there were any RPGs worth talking about we wouldn't have this discussion.

 

[Murk]

Kickstarter 543234 was announced. Mayhapse you can bring your total pledge amount to 1,000. Support the genre, love of games, etc.

 

[Jasede]

I don't talk about imaginary games.

 

[mondblut]

How is MotN not an RPG?

If it looks like a "2D stealth platformer" (your description, not mine), swims like a 2D stealth platformer, and quacks like a 2D stealth platformer, then it probably is a 2D stealth platformer.

Well that beats whining about how things declined. At least MotN is some incline. Personally I am sick and tired of the old formula of impotence mixed with nostalgia that prevents us from enjoying any progress there is.

Also, quite frankly I do not want older games to come back as they were. From my RPGs I want:

a) for them to be much more sophisticated versions of their noble antecedents;
b) for them to create completely new subbgenres of games and play around with all formulas and adding tonnes of new solutions.

The second point is something you won't agree with.

You should embrace biothesda, then. "creating completely new subbgenres of games and playing around with all formulas and adding tonnes of new solutions" is what they specialize in. I'd even commend them for that, were they not hijacking and subversing established genres and their existing target auditory in process.

That's "innovashun" for you.

Fuck innovashun. Of any kind.

And here we have MotN, which although simple like hell at least tries something - tries, succeeds and delivers 100% incline. I genuinely believe it is a good RPG(-like) game, and if we kept receiving only products of this amount of polish and attention to detail, I couldn't care less about the "pure-breed RPGs" nonsense because that's a childish play with labels, we have never been able to agree on to begin with.

You think this platformer is an incline of polish and detail, someone else thinks Ass Effect is an incline of polish and detail. Good for both of you. Can we please have one pure-breed RPG website for a change, though?

You know what? How about writing an editorial, a retrospective or your own review for the 'Dex? I am not being sarcastic here. It's not FUCK YOU I send in your general direction. You are one of the most knowledgeable members, you know square fucktonnes of older titles. You can easily highlight for us - younger members - what was so amazing about those games, and which of their elements you consider to be a must in modern RPGs.

Why should I bother? What would I gain from that?

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

I can't believe the amount of butthurt this generated.

This site got a nicely written review of a quite fun game with more character customization than some of the recent "RPGs" and people are complaining about it? Just don't read it. It wasn't mislabeled as "RPGOTY 2012" or anything.

Personally, I come to RPG Codex not only for stuff related to role-playing games. I like the LPs, I like the adventure gaming session, I like quality reviews of games that are fun. I like some of the codex personalities. I even like the rocket propelled grenades of drama - but the quality ones, not the shit mondblut is providing now.

mondblut, go to Site Feedback and request DU implement filters so that you can only see RPG content. Maybe your ass will be less sore then.

 

[ghostdog]

The Codex sustains itself by drinking from the chalice of butthurt... so nothing new here.

 

[Infinitron]

Wait, what? Mrowak actually thinks this is an RPG? With innovashun, even??

I thought this was just an example of a poster who has good connections with the staff being allowed to put up some unrelated content about a game he's personally invested in. Decline of Mrowak

 

[Mrowak]

Wait, what? Mrowak actually thinks this is an RPG? With innovashun, even??

I thought this was just an example of a poster who has good connections with the staff being allowed to put up some unrelated content about a game he's personally invested in. Decline of Mrowak

No, I don't really think so. It was a mild case of trolling on my part. Although MotN does provoke the question: what is an RPG? Which prompted me to write this review. I find this pretty much relevant to Codex's interest and apparently the staff agrees with me.

To be honest when I discovered Codex in 2007 many now highly regarded RPGs were shunned at, the chief example being Infinity Engine games. People actually claimed they were not RPGs at all or very poor RPGs. Time flies, it appears. If decline continues I bet that in 5 year time MotN wiil be a great RPG classic.

 

[Infinitron]

Although MotN does provoke the question: what is an RPG?

Yes, that's surely a question we haven't asked enough.

 

[Mrowak]

Although MotN does provoke the question: what is an RPG?

Yes, that's surely a question we haven't asked enough.

Yeah, but no one attempted to shoehorn a stealth platformer under this label. So far I have not seen any convincing defence of the genre. As it is MotN fulfills all the requirements.