Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin - dark fantasy reimagining of FF1 from Team Ninja

[Wunderbar]

Jinn are there any performance issues, like in Wo Long?

 

[Jinn]

@Jinn are there any performance issues, like in Wo Long?

This runs great for me. No ridiculous stuttering and it looks really nice.

 

[Wunderbar]

Anyone tried keyboard and mouse controls? Yeah I know such games are always better played with a controller, but still.

Nioh 1 and 2 had decent KBM controls, but then Team Ninja stopped caring and Wo Long ended up with a fucked up mouse acceleration making the game almost unplayable.

 

[Jinn]

Anyone tried keyboard and mouse controls? Yeah I know such games are always better played with a controller, but still.

Nioh 1 and 2 had decent KBM controls, but then Team Ninja stopped caring and Wo Long ended up with a fucked up mouse acceleration making the game almost unplayable.

Actually just did a quick test. Nothing extensive, but movement feels great and even the default controls seem competently done.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Making me wanna play this again. Last time I played as a Dragoon / Sage. Maybe this time Paladin / Dark Knight, or something with the Ninja.

 

[Jinn]

I've been going down the Pugilist/Monk and Mage route so far while experimenting with a few others down the way. Just like with Nioh 2, I really love what they achieved with the feeling of their fist-based combat in this. I think the magic system is done very smartly too, in how you need to balance your ranged casting with close-range MP accruement.

The amount of playstyle combinations you can come up with is pretty impressive. Lends itself very well to experimentation and replayability. It's one of those games I can tell I'm going to get almost a physical urge to return to from time to time.

 

[Frank Capicoli]

I've only played for a couple hours at this point but this is a very satisfying arpg so far. A little overwhelming at the start when they bombard you with dozens of tutorials and options all at once instead of easing into it. Performance has been fine so far but the game is a little on the uglier side aesthetically, not that I'm complaining since the gameplay that matters hits the target.

 

[d1r]

Is there any reason to talk with the NPC's at town? Really annoying that the game has to load in the environment just to listen to some useless one-liners. Also, Jack is the most autistic main character I have ever seen in a video game. And feels like the story and character interactions were written by someone nearly as autistic as him too.

Spoiler

great game nontheless so far

 

[Zariusz]

Is there any reason to talk with the NPC's at town? Really annoying that the game has to load in the environment just to listen to some useless one-liners. Also, Jack is the most autistic main character I have ever seen in a video game. And feels like the story and character interactions were written by someone nearly as autistic as him too.

Spoiler

great game nontheless so far

Probably they planned for NPCs to be in some kind of a hub area and since that wasnt finished they just implemented them in menu, i guess maybe they didnt want to waste voice acting?

 

[Puukko]

The game really started clicking for me a few missions in, I think the fight with Tiamat was the highlight and the first real test of skill. Also the mission where I first spent shards(?) to upgrade jobs, went from not having touched a magic job to Sage instantly. Buff juggling is my jam.

 

[d1r]

I really hate the itemization in the game so far. You are getting FLOODED with all kinds of items that have no valuable stats than just their LVL.

% and + bonuses are miniscule, and nothing I have found so far was even kinda interesting. You just press "Optimize Equipment" every time you finish a mission and move on. Truly a splended achievement to make finding items boring in a game which is all about loot. Big yikes.

 

[Frank Capicoli]

I made the mistake of starting this right after going through Grim Dawn again which also throws tons of garbage loot at you. It's really fatiguing. I don't know how true it is as I haven't reached it yet but I've heard it becomes more involved than just pressing optimize equipment at the next NG+ cycle. Guess that's just how Team Ninja handles this kind of design now even though I can't imagine many people actually like it this way.

 

[Frank Capicoli]

Alright beat the main story and now the dlc missions have unlocked and the grind has begun. There are so many classes I'm feeling very indecisive, guess I'll go with breaker and an axe for now backed up with a sage secondary. Progression feels much more noticeable reaching chaos/bahama difficulty loot stats actually start to matter. There are a few odd performance problems I had in a few places like fairly big frame drops loading into the jobs tree and then a few places where using the games finisher ability after stamina breaking enemies had very noticeable massive frame drops but not frequent enough to be off putting.

Game is very good over all. Shame it didn't get more attention here compared to Nioh and even Wo Long. Guess the Epic! temp exclusivity didn't help it out much.

 

[Jinn]

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Team Ninja needs to drop this Diablo loot bullshit in favor of more meaningful equipment progression tied to exploration. I know it's ingrained in their DNA now, but there's so many better ways to make loot acquisition more interesting even in NG+, IE with all unique equipment, equipment drops tied to specific enemies, new loot locations and new unique equipment through each difficulty level. No one enjoys sifting through literal hundreds of pieces of equipment and dismantling them. And the constant vomit of equipment on the player saps so much fun out of getting anything new. Absolutely degenerate game design.

Says a lot that I still have a ton of fun with their games despite this most detested of practices being present in all of them post-Nioh. Stranger of Paradise continues to be a blast through the first playthrough. I feel they could have gone further with the level design, but they still did a decent job with some of the environmental manipulation and challenging "dead-end" battles. The missions just need to be more complex and dungeon-like. Take it further Team Ninja, for christ sake you're almost there!

Progression feels much more noticeable reaching chaos/bahama difficulty loot stats actually start to matter.

Wish there was a bit more of this in the Hard playthrough, but I guess it'll have me excited for NG+s when the time is right.

Shame it didn't get more attention here compared to Nioh and even Wo Long. Guess the Epic! temp exclusivity didn't help it out much.

Only reason I haven't played it until now.

 

[d1r]

Finished the game on HARD and I gotta say that the story became kinda interesting at the end. Friend of mine and me are now trying to tackle every mission on CHAOS before we do the DLC, which apparently continues the story. Itemization got a little bit better in CHAOS because of more interesting stats, though I still can't stand how the game DOES loot. Gameplay-wise, this game is just a blast. From the beginning to the end. There are so many classes to choose from, there are so many things to learn (we just kept and kept unlocking new classes which was a huge motivation boost), magic feels so fucking good, and the boss fights are incredible fun. Heard great things about the DLC, so I am still hungry for more.

Would have been a masterpiece with more common enemy variety and better itemization (whole loot management really). Great game!

 

[v1rus]

Team Ninja games keep not clicking with me. Tried Nioh multiple times, and it just doesnt click with me. What I've seen of Wo Long and Stranger of Paradise bring me up the same ruminations in me, I see those numbers flying and the whole thing just seems off. Cant put my finger on why. And I'm a big From junkie, and I even loved, not liked, loved Fallen Order, so I obviously dont have a problem with shaking up the formula. Hell, The Surge (which I gave up on for different reasons) sat batter with me on my first try.

What would you blokes say, would this, Wo Long or Nioh be the best starting point?

 

[Suicidal]

Team Ninja games keep not clicking with me. Tried Nioh multiple times, and it just doesnt click with me. What I've seen of Wo Long and Stranger of Paradise bring me up the same ruminations in me, I see those numbers flying and the whole thing just seems off. Cant put my finger on why. And I'm a big From junkie, and I even loved, not liked, loved Fallen Order, so I obviously dont have a problem with shaking up the formula. Hell, The Surge (which I gave up on for different reasons) sat batter with me on my first try.

What would you blokes say, would this, Wo Long or Nioh be the best starting point?

It's hard to say because based on your own admission, you are not sure why you don't like the games, but maybe you prefer games that have one world map you can explore (since this is the case in Souls games and Fallen Order and Surge) as opposed to the game being segmented into individual levels that you complete and then move on to the next?

Anyway, I think Nioh 2 is the best out of all the ones Team Ninja made recently and it has become one of my favorite action games of all time. Some people prefer Nioh 1, but I don't see it - 2 does nearly everything better. Stranger of Paradise seems like B-team contractual obligation sort of thing and Wo Long I was looking forward to but decided to skip it for now, because the game is not only very dumbed down compared to Nioh but also seemed very undercooked on release, so I decided to wait for the complete edition.

Have you played any of the Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden games? If not, you could try playing one of them and then asking yourself if you would enjoy the same thing if it was slower, had RPG/Diablo elements and was 50+ hours long, because this is what Nioh basically is.

 

[v1rus]

Team Ninja games keep not clicking with me. Tried Nioh multiple times, and it just doesnt click with me. What I've seen of Wo Long and Stranger of Paradise bring me up the same ruminations in me, I see those numbers flying and the whole thing just seems off. Cant put my finger on why. And I'm a big From junkie, and I even loved, not liked, loved Fallen Order, so I obviously dont have a problem with shaking up the formula. Hell, The Surge (which I gave up on for different reasons) sat batter with me on my first try.

What would you blokes say, would this, Wo Long or Nioh be the best starting point?

It's hard to say because based on your own admission, you are not sure why you don't like the games, but maybe you prefer games that have one world map you can explore (since this is the case in Souls games and Fallen Order and Surge) as opposed to the game being segmented into individual levels that you complete and then move on to the next?

Anyway, I think Nioh 2 is the best out of all the ones Team Ninja made recently and it has become one of my favorite action games of all time. Some people prefer Nioh 1, but I don't see it - 2 does nearly everything better. Stranger of Paradise seems like B-team contractual obligation sort of thing and Wo Long I was looking forward to but decided to skip it for now, because the game is not only very dumbed down compared to Nioh but also seemed very undercooked on release, so I decided to wait for the complete edition.

Have you played any of the Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden games? If not, you could try playing one of them and then asking yourself if you would enjoy the same thing if it was slower, had RPG/Diablo elements and was 50+ hours long, because this is what Nioh basically is.

Excellent first point; I really do prefer a single, interconnected world, as often used in metroidvanias. Still while I did prefer the way world was designed in Prey, I still greatly enjoyed first two Thief games or Deus Ex.

Of Ninja Gaidens, I relatively recently completed the Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2, NES versions. I know you are referring to Team Ninja ones tho. Light experience with DMC too, wondered should I give them a try one of these days, or start with Onimusha instead. I knwo they have that weird story, of a particular bug in Onimusha inspiring elements of DMC combat.

Good points all in all; I find it curious that you compared it to Ninja Gaiden and DMC, instead of the usual From comparison. Might just not be a type of game for me.
I also loathe Diablo >_>

 

[Frank Capicoli]

And I'm a big From junkie, and I even loved, not liked, loved Fallen Order, so I obviously dont have a problem with shaking up the formula.

Weird I finished Fallen Order the other day and I had to force myself to. Over all found the action there much less enjoyable than your average Team Ninja game.

What would you blokes say, would this, Wo Long or Nioh be the good starting point?

I'm biased - I hated Wo Long. I'd say out of these Nioh would be the better starting point. However I think Wo Long has less going on mechanically compared to Nioh or SoP.

 

[v1rus]

And I'm a big From junkie, and I even loved, not liked, loved Fallen Order, so I obviously dont have a problem with shaking up the formula.

Weird I finished Fallen Order the other day and I had to force myself to. Over all found the action there much less enjoyable than your average Team Ninja game.

Heh. Still cant bring myself to fully realize different people enjoy different things, and that there is no ONETRUEDESIGNPRINCIPLE.

I personally loved it; combat felt fluid and cool, and punished you when you left your guard down (hardest difficulty is a must tho imho). Still, I greatly enjoyed the platforming and world design. Loved going back unlocking stuff with new powers, metroidvania style, even if there wasnt anything particular to find, except stupid bloody ponchos. Also, the game sorta captured a good Star Wars vibe for me. I'm far from a Star Was looney, havent even seen the Last Jedi and the 9th one, but I do appreciate the game catching up some of the essential vibe that makes me care for some of the older films.

 

[Suicidal]

Team Ninja games keep not clicking with me. Tried Nioh multiple times, and it just doesnt click with me. What I've seen of Wo Long and Stranger of Paradise bring me up the same ruminations in me, I see those numbers flying and the whole thing just seems off. Cant put my finger on why. And I'm a big From junkie, and I even loved, not liked, loved Fallen Order, so I obviously dont have a problem with shaking up the formula. Hell, The Surge (which I gave up on for different reasons) sat batter with me on my first try.

What would you blokes say, would this, Wo Long or Nioh be the best starting point?

It's hard to say because based on your own admission, you are not sure why you don't like the games, but maybe you prefer games that have one world map you can explore (since this is the case in Souls games and Fallen Order and Surge) as opposed to the game being segmented into individual levels that you complete and then move on to the next?

Anyway, I think Nioh 2 is the best out of all the ones Team Ninja made recently and it has become one of my favorite action games of all time. Some people prefer Nioh 1, but I don't see it - 2 does nearly everything better. Stranger of Paradise seems like B-team contractual obligation sort of thing and Wo Long I was looking forward to but decided to skip it for now, because the game is not only very dumbed down compared to Nioh but also seemed very undercooked on release, so I decided to wait for the complete edition.

Have you played any of the Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden games? If not, you could try playing one of them and then asking yourself if you would enjoy the same thing if it was slower, had RPG/Diablo elements and was 50+ hours long, because this is what Nioh basically is.

Excellent first point; I really do prefer a single, interconnected world, as often used in metroidvanias. Still while I did prefer the way world was designed in Prey, I still greatly enjoyed first two Thief games or Deus Ex.

Of Ninja Gaidens, I relatively recently completed the Ninja Gaiden 1 and 2, NES versions. I know you are referring to Team Ninja ones tho. Light experience with DMC too, wondered should I give them a try one of these days, or start with Onimusha instead. I knwo they have that weird story, of a particular bug in Onimusha inspiring elements of DMC combat.

Good points all in all; I find it curious that you compared it to Ninja Gaiden and DMC, instead of the usual From comparison. Might just not be a type of game for me.
I also loathe Diablo >_>

Most people look at these things very superficially. They see the stamina bar and the checkpoint system which lets you level up and makes all enemies respawn and scream "SOULS", while in actuality Nioh shares a lot more DNA with action games like DMC due to its mission structure, the way NG+ is handled, the way enemies are introduced and placed, very mechanically complex combat system, stuff like boss rush levels and etc.

I loved the game, but I understand it's not for everyone.

Since you haven't played Team Ninja's NG games or DMC, my suggestion still stands. For example, I really liked the DMC games and when I tried Nioh I ended up enjoying it a lot more than the Souls games. I think the 3d NG series (which I am still yet to play) would be an ever more accurate comparison since it's the same devs and some of the things from NG are reused in Nioh.

 

[distant]

Team Ninja games keep not clicking with me. Tried Nioh multiple times, and it just doesnt click with me.

How far have you gotten in the game? If you're not sure why you don't like it you probably dropped it early. I think Nioh is very easy to dismiss early especially if you try to play it the same way as Dark Souls. It doesn't feel right/fun when you play it that way. It also has somewhat of a slow start. It can be pretty punishing early until you unlock some skills/have a better understanding on how to play.

Are you engaging with the systems? Try taking initiative and creating your own openings. Try stringing together combos and playing around with the stances. Don't try to dodge roll everything, blocking is essential. It's definitely overwhelming at first but then suddenly it clicks and it becomes one of the most exhilarating gaming experiences out there. The combat is so deep.

Tbh start with Nioh 2. It's a masterpiece. Push through the first few bosses and if you still don't like it well not sure. It actually hurts my soul that this game isn't more popular and they feel the need to streamline it in their newer games (from what I've heard).

Oh and btw turn off pick up on white loot straight away, once you have a pool of elixirs/blue gear then turn off yellow. It makes the loot system much better.

 

[v1rus]

Team Ninja games keep not clicking with me. Tried Nioh multiple times, and it just doesnt click with me.

How far have you gotten in the game? If you're not sure why you don't like it you probably dropped it early. I think Nioh is very easy to dismiss early especially if you try to play it the same way as Dark Souls. It doesn't feel right/fun when you play it that way. It also has somewhat of a slow start. It can be pretty punishing early until you unlock some skills/have a better understanding on how to play.

This exactly. Never made it too far.

As people ITT have said, my problem seems to come from me expecting a pure soulsclone but the game is something different. Which I can certainly respect. I will give it an another try, sooner or later, but with different expectations, that should do it some justice.

Oh, and ty for white loot tip. I hate fucking loot garbage piles.

 

[distant]

Yeah man. This is why I hate the souls-like label especially when applied to this game, forget that it has anything to do with Souls. Fallen Order is very reminiscent of Souls in the way it plays. This game is very different so the comparison isn't helpful.

 

[distant]

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Team Ninja needs to drop this Diablo loot bullshit in favor of more meaningful equipment progression tied to exploration. I know it's ingrained in their DNA now, but there's so many better ways to make loot acquisition more interesting even in NG+, IE with all unique equipment, equipment drops tied to specific enemies, new loot locations and new unique equipment through each difficulty level. No one enjoys sifting through literal hundreds of pieces of equipment and dismantling them. And the constant vomit of equipment on the player saps so much fun out of getting anything new. Absolutely degenerate game design.

I partially agree but I think the more I play it the more I think it makes sense (though obviously not a great implementation). I think the fact that the game is designed around replaying through it multiple times, the constant stream of new gear can be kinda exciting especially when you start accumulating sets.

I hate to do a Souls comparison after making a point of how different they are but that loot design philosophy is very similar to Elden Ring. It's cool on the first run but it makes the prospect of replaying it demotivating. Go here, pick this up, go there, run past all the irrelevant stuff, farm this spot, build done. I played with a few different builds in my play through and it was great the first time but doing it all again?

I would say Monster Hunter World also designed around replayability has different issues, you end up fighting the same monster over and over hoping to hit that one rare drop, repeat for each piece. It gets tedious, reasons for fighting the different monsters aren't really incentivised (other than for fun).

Now with Nioh the way the gear is portioned out, you don't rush past bosses, there is an incentive to keep playing for fun and you are rewarded as you go. Maybe I just love the game so much that any reason to keep playing is excuse enough.

There might be a perfect middle ground somewhere but I don't know what it is. Limiting loot to blue or higher in the first run, then finally keeping it all green makes it much more manageable and not that tedious. Just take a quick look and dump whatever isn't helpful, it takes like 5 minutes for every couple of hours of gameplay.