Vapourware Sui Generis + Exanima Early Access

[codexian reject]

Real chainmail alone weights 15+ kg. It was usually around 15kg, but only because people were really small back then.
If you would want to make as protective chainmail as historical ones for an average modern man, it would have to weight closer to 20 kg.
Add clothes, boots, padding, shield, helmet and weapon and you are easily at 30 kg range.

I've never said you don't have to be a real athlete to participate in this competition, that it doesn't require finesse, or that you can't get hurt if unlucky.
All I've said is that it doesn't necessarily is exactly like real fight. Attrition is not a significant factor, whether blow would be capable of penetrating an armour, or not is not a significant factor, etc.

“Perhaps you should think about how what you see in movies and games isn't how things work in real life.“
Exactly, so it's pointless to argue about it in context of games, even if this particular one aims to be a bit more realistic then others.

The weapons connect, have inertia and can dynamically knock off balance to varying degree, not only because you've pressed awesome “strong bow” button.
This combat systems looks like it has necessary elements required to make it plausible enough, with better input animations and some fine tuning of variables.
What is the most worrisome, is that depending on controls depth, or lack of it, combat could possibly play itself too much.

 

[Overboard]

All the videos you are showing, the people look off balance.

I don't even know how to reply to this. You think they're off balance?

As for martial arts, yes it can look elegant as long as it doesn't go on very long. But if you put two people in a real fight, with no refs, no rules, within a few minutes it degenerates into an ugly scrap. Martial arts is not real fighting, it is just art.

Yes it's just an art. I suggest you go and turn up at at some boxing/mma/judo/mt school and scrap with them, since they're just practising some fake art instead of real fighting.

 

[Overboard]

Real chainmail alone weights 15+ kg. It was usually around 15kg, but only because people were really small back then.
If you would want to make as protective chainmail as historical ones for an average modern man, it would have to weight closer to 20 kg.

You have some references for that or are you just pulling numbers out of your behind?

The weapons connect, have inertia and can dynamically knock off balance to varying degree, not only because you've pressed awesome “strong bow” button.

You obviously didn't see the video where armoured guys hit the shit out of each other without looking like drunken idiots, and are still hammering away at the keys with your drunken fighting going on in your head. Also thanks but I'm not keen on that cider.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Real chainmail alone weights 15+ kg. It was usually around 15kg, but only because people were really small back then.
If you would want to make as protective chainmail as historical ones for an average modern man, it would have to weight closer to 20 kg.

You have some references for that or are you just pulling numbers out of your behind?

http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/Lo...ieval/objects/record.htm?type=object&id=36460

 

[Overboard]

http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/Lo...ieval/objects/record.htm?type=object&id=36460

Measurements: H 900 mm; W 600 mm; WT (with mannequin and mount) 27 kg

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't think that the mannequin and the stand weigh more than 10-15kg. Possibly less.

 

[codexian reject]

The guy from this video said his chainmail weight is 18kg and the other one a bit smaller and shorter has 14kg. Not extremely reliable source, but I won't bother searching a better one.

 

[Overboard]

Try displays with only the weight of the armour listed, such as:
Here
here
here
here
here
here
or here.

 

[Overboard]

The guy from this video said his chainmail weight is 18kg and the other one a bit smaller and shorter has 14kg. Not extremely reliable source, but I won't bother searching a better one.

I can see how the word of a couple of actors would be more reliable than actual historical suits of armour.

 

[codexian reject]

Your links: late 15th - 16th century – these are most probably light mails to wear with plate armor and the ones with sleeves weight 8kg+ anyway.
Also most of the stuff in museums are ceremonial pieces from treasuries not necessarily representative.

 

[Overboard]

Your links: late 15th - 16th century

The very first link is to one from the late 14th/early 15th century. Of the seven links, only two are from the late 15th onwards. Perhaps you should read what you are replying to instead of relying on the history channel for information.

8kg+ is a far fucking cry from

Real chainmail alone weights 15+ kg. It was usually around 15kg, but only because people were really small back then.
If you would want to make as protective chainmail as historical ones for an average modern man, it would have to weight closer to 20 kg

Got any reference for how these were meant to be used with plate, or are these more 'facts' you have come up with?

Ceremonial arms and armour were heavier than their counterparts used in the field. Maybe you should quit while you're behind.

 

[codexian reject]

Only one of your links is from late 14th century. Metal mechanical and thermal processing technology, as well as steel alloys quality improved greatly during late middle ages. Late middle ages chainmail was twice as strong ( or had half the weight ) as the one from few centuries earlier. In 14th century and onwards plate armour rule. No one was making heavy chainmails anymore, if someone wanted to be heavily armoured, he was equipping himself with some plates. Also, lol at ceremonial armour being heavier than battle armour. It's a jousting armour that was ridiculously heavy, so the competitors couldn't kill each other, it doesn't have any open gaps, so chainmail usually was not a part of a jousting set.

14th - 15th century chainmail shirt made out of hardened steel has 8 kg

12th century and earlier chainmail, made out of not hardened steel, that was meant to be the only protection, sure wasn't at least twice as heavy at all.


Early heavy chainmails became obsolete and either, were left to rot, or were melted into something else. No one was keeping them in treasuries after middle ages, so they're hard to find in museums. I'm done with this shit. Even if you'll find me somewhere a single authentic 12th century piece that weight less, it mean nothing, since this stuff was not standarised. It was also a matter of personal preference, how big the guy was, how strong he was, how much overweighted he accepted to be, etc.

Back to Sui Generis - everyone thinks it doesn't look that great currently. We hope that better animations and less exaggerated physics parameters should be enough to make it less floaty and more plausible.
As you noticed yourself, it's only a game, so I don't get what point you wanted to make with this video of modern fencing competition.

 

[Primordial Soup Nazi]

Ah, nerds arguing over chainmail encumbrance; the surest method to know you're on forums devoted to role-playing games.

 

[Overboard]

Only one of your links is from late 14th century.

Your links: late 15th - 16th century

That's right, keep shifting the goalposts.

You come up with loads of bullshit and absolutely no links or references at all, just two pictures. By the way your first pic is from Doug Strong, whom I actually know. If you even bothered to ask him he would disabuse you of your numerous erroneous assumptions. Your second is a picture from an encyclopedia with 'artist's impressions', and somehow you figure you can extrapolate dimensions of armour from it?

Even if you'll find me somewhere a single authentic 12th century piece that weight less, it mean nothing, since this stuff was not standarised.

So you have no proof, no references, and whatever evidence doesn't count because you don't want to listen to it? My logical fallacy detector is in meltdown!

I don't get what point you wanted to make with this video of modern fencing competition.

These words, I do not think you know what they mean.

 

[Minttunator]

Ah, nerds arguing over chainmail encumbrance; the surest method to know you're on forums devoted to role-playing games.

On topic: 3 days and £50K left - looks like they're going to need a pretty big surge over the last few days to make it. Maybe we'll see the first project (that I know of) that fails at over 90% of funding reached?

 

[codexian reject]

One link is described as late 14th or early 15th century, so we are not sure if it's even 14th century at all.
I didn't run through your links again when I was writing my posts and unintentionally shifted their period like half century forward.
I've admitted my mistake and more strawman is what I've got. How does it change anything ?

This depiction of a hauberk reaching knees, full sleeves and a coif that cover face is consistent across all pieces of art from the period. Leggings and gloves integrated with sleeves are also common.
Taking into account all the padding and belt that kept lower part a bit lifted on the hips, hauberks needed to be close to 1m long. Now, look how much of that coverage is missing on this 9kg piece.
Where are your sources proving that these depictions are inaccurate, or links to authentic 12th century knight chainmail armour ?

I am sure, these guys are pros and they would do great, if someone moved them back in time and forced to fight for their lives. I mean it.
I've called it “modern fencing competition”, because conditions and rules reassemble more certain Olympic discipline, than medieval battlefield.

 

[mikaelis]

On topic: 3 days and £50K left - looks like they're going to need a pretty big surge over the last few days to make it. Maybe we'll see the first project (that I know of) that fails at over 90% of funding reached?

39k to go and still 2 and a half days left. I think they will make it. Just today they got a massive 12k and the day is not over yet. Good news as I was sure this project would fail the funding goal.

 

[codexian reject]

I keep an eye on it too and maybe I'll rise my pledge a bit on the last day.
Sadly, according to kicktraq a lot of it is from people increasing pledges and this will have limits, there is not that much new backers.

 

[kaizoku]

I'm not backing it.
There isn't a single reason to do it besides the great tech.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1473965863/sui-generis/posts/355023

To make clothes we use a dedicated cloth simulator and other tools we've developed. This allows us to make realistic clothes very quickly and easily. It also allows clothes to change depending on what else you're wearing. For example, long trousers will tuck into boots realistically.

anyway, new video

 

[skuphundaku]

Forbes' Erik Kain from does an interview on Sui Generis: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/11/28/an-interview-with-sui-generis-developer-madoc-evans/

 

[CSM]

£144,646 pledged of £150,000 goal

 

[mikaelis]

£144,646 pledged of £150,000 goal

Yeah, that is really close, but fortunately it looks like they will make it. 4,5k short of the target with 8 hours to go.

 

[Haba]

£4k to go, 7 hours left. Pulling it quite close, heh.

I think I'll still skip this one.

 

[skuphundaku]

Sui Generis made it.

 

[Sazabi]

I thought this was doomed...

Color me surprised.