SW:TOR

[Grunker]

I'll try again: Writing isn't just the plot.

 

[Average Manatee]

The plot is the most important part though. Romancing companions is just sidequest shit that you can avoid.

 

[Grunker]

The plot is the most important part though

In DA2, actual writing pertaining to the plot makes up maybe 10-20% of what is actually written. Most of it is people discussing stuff that you don't care about in retarded ways. This is especially the case in DA2 because the plot is such a small part of the game, but it's also the case in most of the other Bioware games because the main storyline is maybe 10 hours of a 40 hour game in most of them.

Also, the fact that you can avoid some shit doesn't make it less part of the game.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Plot? DA2 is just a janitor simulator.
You wander around the city of Cockwall, cleaning basement(s) and roofs infested mostly by psychotic mages.

 

[Angthoron]

The plot is the most important part though. Romancing companions is just sidequest shit that you can avoid.

Torment plot: Dude loses memory and mortality, wakes up in mortuary in Sigil, meets people, does things, reclaims lost stuff.
Fallout plot: Dude lives in a vault, vault runs out of water chips, dude is sent to get more. Gets the chip, has to kill mutants, kills them and their boss.
Crime and Punishment plot: Dude kills two women and steals some shit because of theories and poverty. Gets upset about it, meets prostitute with a heart of gold, has family trouble; goes to jail eventually.
Sun Also Rises plot: Dude has got his junk shot off in WW1, loves chick, can't score, but is a BRO, but his best bro is UNBRO but has a peen and scores with chicks, and then they go see the bulls.

These are plots. Writing happens around them. Plot =/= story =/= writing.

Plot? DA2 is just a janitor simulator.
You wander around the city of Cockwall, cleaning basement(s) and roofs infested mostly by psychotic mages.

Cockwart, sir, please.

 

[lightbane]

Plot? DA2 is just a janitor simulator.
You wander around the city of Cockwall, cleaning basement(s) and roofs infested mostly by psychotic mages.

Don't forget the even more psychotic Police Templars. Don't worry though, eventually you must choose which side to join... Then kill them all anyways because that's what C&C is all about.

 

[Xor]

Eh. DA2 had terrible writing for the most part, but not all of it was bad. Asshole hawke's dialog was fun, and I thought Varrick and that guard woman whose name I can't be bothered to look up were BRO-tier characters. Some of the quests were at least interesting. The way they told the story had potential but of course Bioware took the easy route; what should have been the story of hawke's rise to power was instead just a bunch of errands and fetch quests that ended with hawke in charge because every other authority figure was dead. There were also plenty of opportunities for some fun C&C with the time skips and everything, but of course we couldn't have that in a modern RPG.

Anyway. Completely not surprised about SWTOR. I'm pretty sure I even predicted something like this before SWTOR came out. Those who try to beat Blizzard at their own game are doomed to fail at it. It will take considerable effort to break WoW's hold on the MMO market, probably another WoW-like product that changes the very nature of MMOs. I don't know what that would be - WoW was really just designed for increased accessibility compared to MMOs at the time and with high production values, and it's become more and more accessible over the years so I doubt that trick will work again.

 

[Average Manatee]

Also, the fact that you can avoid some shit doesn't make it less part of the game.

If I'm reviewing the game as a whole I'll talk about everything. If I'm just fucking around for a weekend then elements that I've ignored don't count at all. This is the difference between Fallout 1 and Fallout 2. The former confines the lulz to fringe side quests and encounters, the latter sprays them right in your face to the point that they are unavoidable.

Torment plot: Dude loses memory and mortality, wakes up in mortuary in Sigil, meets people, does things, reclaims lost stuff.
Fallout plot: Dude lives in a vault, vault runs out of water chips, dude is sent to get more. Gets the chip, has to kill mutants, kills them and their boss.
Crime and Punishment plot: Dude kills two women and steals some shit because of theories and poverty. Gets upset about it, meets prostitute with a heart of gold, has family trouble; goes to jail eventually.
Sun Also Rises plot: Dude has got his junk shot off in WW1, loves chick, can't score, but is a BRO, but his best bro is UNBRO but has a peen and scores with chicks, and then they go see the bulls.

These are plots. Writing happens around them. Plot =/= story =/= writing.

Plot is writing. The only difference is point of view. Your oversimplifications just make you look

 

[fizzelopeguss]

never forget, never forgive.

At risk of being called out on an appeal to popularity, TOR apparently lost ~50% of its subscribers over the past 7 months and is now going F2P in an attempt to recoup those numbers; D3 lost ~65% of its players in a little over a month even though it is already a F2P game.

Which doesn't mean a thing

Is this real life?

 

[Average Manatee]

Which doesn't mean a thing

Is this real life?

Do you not understand the difference between initial starting point and the change over time of a population?

 

[Oriebam]

Does anyone remember when they removed the unsubscribe button?

 

[Black]

Does anyone remember when they removed the unsubscribe button?

Yup, a droplet in a the sea of goodness. And then they banned people who "exploited" the site for finding another way to unsub, right?

 

[Angthoron]

Plot is writing. The only difference is point of view. Your oversimplifications just make you look

Yes, of course. Your omission of such negligible elements of the story as characterization, theme, setting, context, subtext, conflict and presentation, on the other hand, make you a monumentally monocled gentleman of renown.

FYI, my oversimplifications are the plot: a sequence of events in a story. I may have mixed some sequences and added a little too much characterization for Sun Also Rises, but hey.

 

[Ulminati]

normally i'd agree, i couldn't give a shit what anyone else here plays.

But when you're trying to post in a thread of a game you've been following and some little shit is slagging you off at every turn and acting like you've fucked his sister. Yet pretends to be mr billy big bollocks with impeccable taste and turns out to be the codex's #1 SWTOR superfan...a piss has been taken. .

You're a prime candidate here for master of butthurt. I'm sory I insulted your precious diablows, fisslecockapus. I had no idea you were so invested in your relationship with blizzards products. Oh, remorse! Remorse!

By all means, I repent. Go back to following diablo and its RMAH shenanigans. Enjoy ignoring the fact that blizzard forces even more draconian DRM down your throat with their always-online crap, makes deposited money vanish into thin air if you change region or a million other ways in which they try to leech the highest amount of money out of the rapidly dwindling legions of drones like you who crave killing diablo on ulltra-death-nightmare if only they can summon up the will to grind chapter 1 for months on end to pass the gear checks in place to force people into the RMAH.

TOR is by no means a good game. But it was entertaining for what it was for a month. Part of the enjoyment is probably in what little nostalgia factor the SW universe can still drum up after ol' George went and shat all over it with the second trilogy. But as WoW clones goes it was ok in a mediocre sort of way. Bioware did by no means release a polished product and they did pull some of the usual dubious MMO stunts. But Diablows is several orders of magnitude worse.
Diablows doesn't even attempt to be a good game. Just a set of shiny lights that'll distract you while it attempts to latch onto your wallet. Given that chinese hackers could steal your single player accounts gear, reports of RMAH transactions vanishing and blizzard not being willing to refund players, people having their deposited cash wiped with no refunds because they changed geographical regions and the numerous other shady shenanigans Blizzard have been up to, I'm right to label their steaming turd of a skinner box the spawn of satan.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

normally i'd agree, i couldn't give a shit what anyone else here plays.

But when you're trying to post in a thread of a game you've been following and some little shit is slagging you off at every turn and acting like you've fucked his sister. Yet pretends to be mr billy big bollocks with impeccable taste and turns out to be the codex's #1 SWTOR superfan...a piss has been taken. .

You're a prime candidate here for master of butthurt.

Honestly, i just think you're a bit of a dickhead.

I'm sory I insulted your precious diablows, fisslecockapus. I had no idea you were so invested in your relationship with blizzards products. Oh, remorse! Remorse!

You still don't get it, you were embarassing yourself in that thread with hyperbole filled GameFAQ esque rants whilst carrying a colossal chip on your shoulder the entire time, calling your fellow codexians drones and shills in a lame attempt to score KKKredit as newfags typically do. (just like the above)

To find out you bought and liked swtor after all your open, brazen cuntishness is fucking remarkable, it's up there with skyways kotor bombshell, you're out of order and damn right i was gonna call you out on your bullshit.

Wot a nobber.

By all means, I repent

Time for a celebratory victory wank.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Are you guys really arguing over the merits of DA2's and TOR's writing? Comparing Diablo 3 and ToR in a serious way? What the hell, bros. I mean, indulge in whatever guilty pleasures you have, I'm not one to judge, but to see real value in these harbingers of decline? This is an act of a diseased mind. I strongly suggest that you all go replay the Thief series, or JA2, or another indisputably excellent game of your choice, so that you can cleanse yourselves of the illness Bioware and Blizzard have visited upon your souls.

Steel be with you.

 

[Ulminati]

Are you guys really arguing over the merits of DA2's and TOR's writing? Comparing Diablo 3 and ToR in a serious way? What the hell, bros. I mean, indulge in whatever guilty pleasures you have, I'm not one to judge, but to see real value in these harbingers of decline? This is an act of a diseased mind. I strongly suggest that you all go replay the Thief series, or JA2, or another indisputably excellent game of your choice, so that you can cleanse yourselves of the illness Bioware and Blizzard have visited upon your souls.

Steel be with you.

I'm still going to maintain there's a differnce between saying "TOR is by no means a great game, but it entertained me for a month. And parts of it were good enough to warrant mentioning befire we drown the rest in bile." and Gaudaost (the person I called a shill) spending 143 of his first 150 posts on the codex in Diablo 3 threads, claiming Blizzard had made a masterpiece and the people who lost their single player games to the lovely session dupe exploit were totally to blame because they didn't shell out for an additional authenticator and by the way the RMAH would not negatively impact peoples experience in any way if they opted not to use it. Oh and it was all totally acceptable that blizzard turned off the ability to play the game at all for over a week in SEA after someone found an duping exploit. And all the documented instances of peoples real money transactions disappearing into thin air and the helpdesk not refunding are fabricated. And it's completely ok that Blizzard keep all the real money you deposit for themselves if you ever have the gall to change region because you happen to move.

TOR is a bad game - though not as bad as some claim. An inferior WoW clone that nonetheless had a few glimmers of neat stuff that bear mentioning to give a nuanced picture. A standard failed MMO remarkable mainly because of the sums of money thrown at bad design decisions, such a choosing an engine that only existed at an early, undocumented prototype stage.

Diablo is a highly polished bad game. An inferior Diablo clone that nonetheless might've been decent if it hadn't been built entirely around making the RMAH a continuous revenue stream for Blizzard like WoW. A standard hack&slash remarkable mainly for the absurd amount of controversy surrounding its DRM and RM transfers, such as the fact that Blizzard several times gleefully stole real money that people had left in their keeping and governments raiding their offices because of the amount of foul play suspected.

One game charged you $10/mo after buying a boxed edition. The other game charges you $x/mo where x ~= the number of items you sell/purchase on their RMAH x 0.7*. Which, judging from the screenshots some 'dexers posted of their auctions is about 20 jewbucks/mo.

*Ballpark figure, taking the $1 flat transaction + percentage of total on top when you try to withdraw money you earned from RMAH, before the additional paypal cut. Divided by two since I guess the seller and buyer both pay an equal share to Blizzards auctionhouse siphoning).

But I guess Fizzlecockapus wanted an excuse to be butthurt.
Sikken en tudefrans.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

God, you're boring.

 

[Average Manatee]

Plot is writing. The only difference is point of view. Your oversimplifications just make you look

Yes, of course. Your omission of such negligible elements of the story as characterization, theme, setting, context, subtext, conflict and presentation, on the other hand, make you a monumentally monocled gentleman of renown.

FYI, my oversimplifications are the plot: a sequence of events in a story. I may have mixed some sequences and added a little too much characterization for Sun Also Rises, but hey.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plot

the plan or main story (as of a movie or literary work)

elements of the story as characterization, theme, setting, context, subtext, conflict and presentation

If plot is the story than it by definition must contain the elements of the story. Just because when someone discusses a plot they are often talking about a high-level view of it does not mean that you can not take a low-level view. Oversimplifying a plot and then saying that is all a plot can be is as dumb as Bioware simplifying dialog choices down to one word and then saying that's all dialog choices can be.

inb4 Bioware games aren't literary works.

 

[Jaesun]

 

[Andyman Messiah]

TOR is by no means a good game. But it was entertaining for what it was for a month.

Location: Denmark

Don't even get me started on that "nostalgia" crap you're shitting. WHAT fucking nostalgia?

 

[DraQ]

I guess hunting down the missing unsubscribe workaround at least provided some mental stimulation which is rare in modern games so I can see TOR being somewhat entertaining.

 

[Ulminati]

God, you're boring.

At last we found something we have in common then. Why dont you crawl back under your little rock and farm inferno some more. You'll notice I haven't bothered posting in your beloved trainwreck of a games thread since your little butthurt crusade started. The entertainment value of seeing Blizzard fans getting fleeced has passed

 

[DraQ]

D3 vs TOR - which is worse and why??

Discuss!!

 

[fizzelopeguss]

God, you're boring.

At last we found something we have in common then. Why dont you crawl back under your little rock and farm inferno some more. You'll notice I haven't bothered posting in your beloved trainwreck of a games thread since your little butthurt crusade started. The entertainment value of seeing Blizzard fans getting fleeced has passed

Don't sulk because you made a pillock of yourself, We all get a beasting on the codex at some point.

D3 vs TOR - which is worse and why??

Discuss!!

Skyrim.

 

[Angthoron]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plot

the plan or main story (as of a movie or literary work)

elements of the story as characterization, theme, setting, context, subtext, conflict and presentation

If plot is the story than it by definition must contain the elements of the story. Just because when someone discusses a plot they are often talking about a high-level view of it does not mean that you can not take a low-level view. Oversimplifying a plot and then saying that is all a plot can be is as dumb as Bioware simplifying dialog choices down to one word and then saying that's all dialog choices can be.

inb4 Bioware games aren't literary works.

A plot is not a story, it's the outline of story's course. Here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_(narrative)

If you disagree, feel free to revolutionize the literary studies.

 

[DraQ]

fizzelopeguss , Ulminati :

Get a room, you two.

 

[Average Manatee]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plot

the plan or main story (as of a movie or literary work)

elements of the story as characterization, theme, setting, context, subtext, conflict and presentation

If plot is the story than it by definition must contain the elements of the story. Just because when someone discusses a plot they are often talking about a high-level view of it does not mean that you can not take a low-level view. Oversimplifying a plot and then saying that is all a plot can be is as dumb as Bioware simplifying dialog choices down to one word and then saying that's all dialog choices can be.

inb4 Bioware games aren't literary works.

A plot is not a story, it's the outline of story's course. Here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_(narrative)

If you disagree, feel free to revolutionize the literary studies.

Plot is a literary term defined as the events that make up a story

What are you trying to prove by linking to pages where the first sentence says that I'm right?

 

[sea]

Holy fuck.

I just downloaded the game to see what the fuss was about.

First thing I see (after the shittest install process ever, herp derp, gotta keep trying passwords until they work because the site doesn't tell you what the requirements are, let's have our updater download half, install just to make you think it's done, then download another 10 GB of crap) is a 5 minute CGI movie. Immediately after picking a backstory? Another 5 minute movie.

What the fuck?

No wonder this game was so fucking expensive. They must have spent $20 million on all these goddamn cutscenes alone.

On top of that the entire game seems to be the worst form of shit nostalgia exploitation. Did George Lucas make this game himself? Everything about it is the most ill-advised crap ever. Boba Fett knock-off that's now a hot anime girl with anime hair? Check! Bad Harrison Ford smuggler ripoff with I Can't Believe It's Not The Millennium Falcon(TM)? Check! Ripoff of their own character, Bastila Shan, who looks, sounds and behaves exactly like her? Check! 100 on 100 battles of Jedi vs. Sith? Check? They even fucking ripped off Darth Vader!

Seriously, I know this game is an MMO and means to hit he widest audience, but this is just outright theft, and bad theft at that. This game reminds me of everything that was wrong with the prequel trilogy but amplified to 11. Even the dialogue is terrible, a collection of the worst Star Wars cliche lines ripped straight out of a horrible fan film. No, fuck that, I've seen fan films better than this. It's like they specifically said "hey, remember how Attack of the Clones fucking sucked? I'll bet we can do even worse!" Just as a piece of Star Wars fiction and as a piece of storytelling, I'm not even 10 minutes in and the game is already a fucking colossal mess.

And ironically it's all for fucking nothing because, news flash, I want to play your goddamn Star Wars game! I'm a huge Star Wars fan and even I don't want to watch your shitty knock-off of the shitty prequel trilogy... I want to play the goddamn game! Hey remember when we could do that, when games didn't need 10 minutes of cutscene porn before you could jump in and enjoy them?

I don't know if the game itself is any good, but I feel so bad for all those people at BioWare who worked on this titanic product and ended up losing their jobs. What a fucking waste to have put all those thousands upon thousands of hours into a game that is the living embodiment of a middle finger up the asshole of Star Wars fans.