SW:TOR

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Holy fuck.

I just downloaded the game to see what the fuss was about.

First thing I see (after the shittest install process ever, herp derp, gotta keep trying passwords until they work because the site doesn't tell you what the requirements are, let's have our updater download half, install just to make you think it's done, then download another 10 GB of crap) is a 5 minute CGI movie. Immediately after picking a backstory? Another 5 minute movie.

What the fuck?

No wonder this game was so fucking expensive. They must have spent $20 million on all these goddamn cutscenes alone.

On top of that the entire game seems to be the worst form of shit nostalgia exploitation. Did George Lucas make this game himself? Everything about it is the most ill-advised crap ever. Boba Fett knock-off that's now a hot anime girl with anime hair? Check! Bad Harrison Ford smuggler ripoff with I Can't Believe It's Not The Millennium Falcon(TM)? Check! Ripoff of their own character, Bastila Shan, who looks, sounds and behaves exactly like her? Check! 100 on 100 battles of Jedi vs. Sith? Check? They even fucking ripped off Darth Vader!

Seriously, I know this game is an MMO and means to hit he widest audience, but this is just outright theft, and bad theft at that. This game reminds me of everything that was wrong with the prequel trilogy but amplified to 11. Even the dialogue is terrible, a collection of the worst Star Wars cliche lines ripped straight out of a horrible fan film. No, fuck that, I've seen fan films better than this. It's like they specifically said "hey, remember how Attack of the Clones fucking sucked? I'll bet we can do even worse!" Just as a piece of Star Wars fiction and as a piece of storytelling, I'm not even 10 minutes in and the game is already a fucking colossal mess.

And ironically it's all for fucking nothing because, news flash, I want to play your goddamn Star Wars game! I'm a huge Star Wars fan and even I don't want to watch your shitty knock-off of the shitty prequel trilogy... I want to play the goddamn game! Hey remember when we could do that, when games didn't need 10 minutes of cutscene porn before you could jump in and enjoy them?

I don't know if the game itself is any good, but I feel so bad for all those people at BioWare who worked on this titanic product and ended up losing their jobs. What a fucking waste to have put all those thousands upon thousands of hours into a game that is the living embodiment of a middle finger up the asshole of Star Wars fans.

 

[Shadenuat]

Seriously, I know this game is an MMO and means to hit he widest audience, but this is just outright theft

Yeah, mechanics, cutscenes, cute twi'leks, candyland PvP and stuffies are not really which bothered me. The biggest flaw which game accumulated by years of development by hundreds of people is that it completely lacks personality. Even KOTOR1 had some personality about it somehow, but SWTOR plays like a written summory of SW which was then stolen and re-written and then stolen again and so on.

 

[sea]

Oh my god. The in-game dialogue is fucking atrocious. Half of the conversations don't even flow properly or make sense depending on what options you select, and most of the dialogue choice summaries don't even match up with the lines your character actually says. Everyone is unconditionally an asshole to my character even when there's absolutely no reason to be, so BioWare are continuing the proud tradition of Sith = chaotic stupid.

Gameplay-wise it's really awkward to get quests to clear out infestations of monsters only to see them reappear seconds later, or to retrieve artifacts from tombs but leave behind like 75% of them because you only need 3 or whatever. I mean I know it's an MMO but couldn't they have come up with quests that at least sort of make sense? It doesn't help that every single area is massively oversized and has like 10 minutes of walking around from A to B killing trash mobs in between these short, badly-written dialogues.

Damn it, the Sith Academy again? Not only was that the derpiest part lore-wise of KotOR, but apparently BioWare have literally run out of ideas and just settled for using the same old shit all over again, right down to every Sith in the world apparently being some sort of whiny jerk for no reason.

EDIT: lol. So the Sith acolyte that's most favoured is some Sith race guy... and yet I'm also playing a Sith character and I can't comment on it at all - in fact, nobody seems to notice at all and I even have dialogue lines that make it sound like my character has no idea what a Sith is. Quality dialogue, BioWare! Seriously, was this shit even proofread?

Best part is the whole "we have a special mission for you" think but the Sith trainer guy with the soul patch constantly berates you. Why am I being given special missions and treatment if I'm apparently so pathetic? And if I'm the worst off then why does he kill other people as an example instead of me? This is just fucking terrible.

EDIT 2: Ran past an idle conversation where two people were talking about how there's "not a pureblood among" the acolytes. I'M STANDING RIGHT HERE YOU FUCKING MORONS. $200 million and they can't even manage to get details like this right? If you have Sith as a playable race, DON'T HAVE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT HOW THERE ARE NO SITH AROUND. I cannot believe this level of incompetence.

 

[Aldebaran]

Surrender to your doubts: forswear Star Wars. In order to save the Star Wars universe you need to forget all but three movies and supposedly one book. Now, I would never proselytize after such a tragedy as TOR, but we have to consider that maybe, just maybe, Star Trek always has been infinitely superior. Think about the possibilities. All you have to do is forget about a few early episodes in TNG and DS9, the last season of TOS, most things before season four of Enterprise, three to five movies, and all of Voyager. That leaves you with many seasons of joy and even a few fairly decent movies.

Star Wars had its life support plug unceremoniously pulled a long time ago. All that remains is the tangled, myopic mass of retarded ingenuity called Expanded Universe, which will grub and gleefully squeal in its inheritance for all time.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Darth Baras, fearsome sith lord.

 

[Angthoron]

Plot is a literary term defined as the events that make up a story

What are you trying to prove by linking to pages where the first sentence says that I'm right?

Well you could try reading the whole thing, but if you only read first sentences, then I've bolded it for you.

Alright, I'll explain it, here:

PLOT is a term used for working with a story's actions and progression, the nice chart on the wiki page explains it pretty nicely.
CHARACTERIZATION on the other hand is something that is tied purely to character development. Sure, characters develop as the plot moves along, but the two are viewed separately. Generally, characterization splits characters into groups like dynamic/static, flat/round etc. Now, if we were to seriously DISCUSS!!! Bio characters, they are, generally speaking, flat and static within the context of a given story. There are exceptions, but they are fairly rare, and even then I hesitate to call any of Bio characters to be actually genuinely round.
SUBTEXT is something that has very fucking little to do with either previous bit, it's something that the author puts in on their own via allusions, or a reader derives on their own, a-la "Shakespeare was gay because he doesn't specifically mention a gender in one of his love sonnets". Bio has essentially zero subtext in their, hm, works, although I keep on hearing that rabid fans on BSN keep on finding something.
PRESENTATION is something I lumped together actually, it's more about stylistics & text quality really, if we want to be correct. Basically that's the author's style, whether he writes sentences well and then strings them well together or not; where his/her ability to write sentences deviates from the norm, etc. This has fuck-all to do with the plot, and a lot to do with whether a story is good.

Also, yes, Bio's writing can be discussed via literary analysis, as dialogues and cutscenes are made up of scripts, and scripts fall nicely to the "literature" territory.

 

[Average Manatee]

CHARACTERIZATION on the other hand is something that is tied purely to character development. Sure, characters develop as the plot moves along, but the two are viewed separately. Generally, characterization splits characters into groups like dynamic/static, flat/round etc. Now, if we were to seriously DISCUSS!!! Bio characters, they are, generally speaking, flat and static within the context of a given story. There are exceptions, but they are fairly rare, and even then I hesitate to call any of Bio characters to be actually genuinely round.
SUBTEXT is something that has very fucking little to do with either previous bit, it's something that the author puts in on their own via allusions, or a reader derives on their own, a-la "Shakespeare was gay because he doesn't specifically mention a gender in one of his love sonnets". Bio has essentially zero subtext in their, hm, works, although I keep on hearing that rabid fans on BSN keep on finding something.
PRESENTATION is something I lumped together actually, it's more about stylistics & text quality really, if we want to be correct. Basically that's the author's style, whether he writes sentences well and then strings them well together or not; where his/her ability to write sentences deviates from the norm, etc. This has fuck-all to do with the plot, and a lot to do with whether a story is good.

Congrats, you've managed to identify facets of a plot. You know, a story's actions and progression.

 

[Shadenuat]

Darth Baras is actually p cool. I just thought of him as SW version of Baron Harkonnen.

Sea, stop raping your own mind and letting Bioware eat your brain with spoon. Either play as Agent for moderate story, or as sith warrior for blue Imoen/Merrill slave and lulzy Dark Side choking of everything around.
And with your standarts, don't even go Republic side. Don't.

 

[Angthoron]

Congrats, you've managed to identify facets of a plot. You know, a story's actions and progression.

Congrats, you managed to read half of a post.

Stylistics are a part of story and progression? Right, if you like to push boundaries really far.
Subtext is a part of story and progression? Sure, but see above.
Characterization is dubious, though it's part of the story, yes; not of the plot per se, no.

And yeah, I prefer distinction between the terms "story" and "plot", since a story can have all this stuff, but a plot can't.

Anyway, that was somehow getting a bit besides the point and fairly pointless, I'm not even sure how it ended up where it is - guess it was the whole thing with me rushing and packing and misreading some post or another. Back to the point that I should be making!

I'm not quite sure how you mean that most Bio games are by formula lifted from BG, sure, there's a lot in common, but I'd actually say that the formula is lifted more from BG2, where you really do have a MacGuffin to chase and allies to gather, whereas DA2 seems to be more lifted from the BG1 formula, where you bimble around and do stuff and then stuff happens etc etc. The biggest difference being the addition of "time lapses", which the game could do well without anyway.

Also, while the storyline itself might not be as used as Bio's general approach, the implementation of this story is another matter altogether: characters are flat and static, writing quality/style (as in, actual text, not idea behind it) is poor, and essentially what you've called facets of a plot here are all pretty substandard. If it's to be judged on its own merit and not placed against BioWare's lasting tradition of rehashes, it's still pretty damn poor, and that's if we look at it leniently.

 

[Average Manatee]

Also, while the storyline itself might not be as used as Bio's general approach, the implementation of this story is another matter altogether: characters are flat and static, writing quality/style (as in, actual text, not idea behind it) is poor, and essentially what you've called facets of a plot here are all pretty substandard. If it's to be judged on its own merit and not placed against BioWare's lasting tradition of rehashes, it's still pretty damn poor, and that's if we look at it leniently.

True, but the main point is that it was an improvement and an example of Bioware trying to step outside their comfort zone. It's nice to think that one person there may have been able to add some measure of competence even if they are still drowned out in a sea of fail.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

http://www.swtor.com/free/

Those rewards probably took an intern a week to throw together.

 

[Angthoron]

http://www.swtor.com/free/

Those rewards probably took an intern a week to throw together.

Sith Meditation Throne

Harness the Dark Side of the Force™ in the most menacing manner with your own personal Meditation Throne.

The TM really seals the deal. I'd like to think it's self-referential irony, but knowing EA, Lucas and Bio are behind it, I know better.

True, but the main point is that it was an improvement and an example of Bioware trying to step outside their comfort zone. It's nice to think that one person there may have been able to add some measure of competence even if they are still drowned out in a sea of fail.

Suppose so. I guess this is what passes for a bold experiment at EA/Bio these days, although, if I got this right, DA2 was meant to be an addon or a side-project that wasn't meant to be a sequel, so it could explain the reasons behind the formula being what it is.

 

[markec]

http://www.swtor.com/free/

Those rewards probably took an intern a week to throw together.

Lost Helm of Darth NihilusStrike fear into your enemies’ hearts with this legendary mask from the mysterious Sith Lord who stalked the galaxy in the years after the Jedi Civil War.

Funny thing is that half of the Empire players will be wearing this legendary lost helm.

 

[Angthoron]

http://www.swtor.com/free/

Those rewards probably took an intern a week to throw together.

Lost Helm of Darth NihilusStrike fear into your enemies’ hearts with this legendary mask from the mysterious Sith Lord who stalked the galaxy in the years after the Jedi Civil War.

Funny thing is that half of the Empire players will be wearing this legendary lost helm.

Multi-headed Darth hits the Force in the midichlorians and ass, oh my god its heavan.

 

[DraQ]

http://www.swtor.com/free/

Those rewards probably took an intern a week to throw together.

Lost Helm of Darth NihilusStrike fear into your enemies’ hearts with this legendary mask from the mysterious Sith Lord who stalked the galaxy in the years after the Jedi Civil War.

Funny thing is that half of the Empire players will be wearing this legendary lost helm.

Multi-headed Darth hits the Force in the midichlorians and ass, oh my god its heavan.

MMOs at their finest.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

EDIT: Actually, this is probably more appropriate for the news in question:

 

[Darklife]

Vote Now on Fan Favorite Rewards

Plus as a bonus for current subscribers - vote on your favorite bonus reward choice.

Man, I really have to get into this game.

 

[Commissar Draco]

[quote="sea, post: 2213922, member: 13456"[/quote]

Thanks for warning was going to get seduced by Slaanesh and Tzaneth to DL and try it.

 

[Black]

Sith Meditation Throne

Forgive me, I have to make a #2, I'll be on my Sith Meditation Throne if you need me.

 

[DraQ]

I was on my Sith Meditation Throne today.


Wait, or was that "shit"? o_O

 

[Rivmusique]

http://www.swtor.com/free/

Those rewards probably took an intern a week to throw together.

Lost Helm of Darth NihilusStrike fear into your enemies’ hearts with this legendary mask from the mysterious Sith Lord who stalked the galaxy in the years after the Jedi Civil War.

Funny thing is that half of the Empire players will be wearing this legendary lost helm.

Woah what the fuck? I thought they retconned Nihlus from existing or something?

 

[markec]

http://www.swtor.com/free/

Those rewards probably took an intern a week to throw together.

Lost Helm of Darth NihilusStrike fear into your enemies’ hearts with this legendary mask from the mysterious Sith Lord who stalked the galaxy in the years after the Jedi Civil War.

Funny thing is that half of the Empire players will be wearing this legendary lost helm.

Woah what the fuck? I thought they retconned Nihlus from existing or something?

Bioware probably have their own version of him. I think they should make a step further and make him a undead companion, you could experience from the first hand a forbidden romance and his daddy issues which he will mention every few conversations since Bioware knows how we love characters who constantly cry on our shoulders.

 

[Darklife]

Wait, Nihlus was unexisted?

 

[markec]

Wait, Nihlus was unexisted?

I think that entire KotOR 2 is not considered canon.

 

[Rivmusique]

Wait, Nihlus was unexisted?

To be honest I am not sure. I read it somewhere (I'm thinking /v/), but after reading about the mask shit they are adding I looked it up and found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOFPsyjzVLc so it seems he is in there. Maybe whoever said it was just overstating their feeling that he (and much of KotOR 2) wasn't as much of an influence as they felt he should have been? Also it seems the 'sith emperor' (swtor big bad) has some powers that are similar to nihilus planet destroying stuff and that caused some issues. I dunno, I just looked this TOR stuff up and about 5mins in it seemed like I was looking for shit to hate, so I stopped. I have already seen what they did to the Exile character in a Revan summary, I don't need more than that to see how irrelevant KotOR 2 events have become.

 

[sea]

Sea, stop raping your own mind and letting Bioware eat your brain with spoon. Either play as Agent for moderate story, or as sith warrior for blue Imoen/Merrill slave and lulzy Dark Side choking of everything around.
And with your standarts, don't even go Republic side. Don't.

I only have until level 15 so I'm almost done anyway.

I will say the story is not utterly terrible beyond the beginning... it's just really predictable and kind of dumb, albeit not so much in terms of plot events as character motivations and the world design around it. And I think that the infighting between different Jedi and Sith has a chance to be interesting as far as politics go, though I doubt the game will ever go there.

Will try Imperial Agent once I get the chance, though, everyone seems to think that's the most fun.

The biggest obstacle, to me, is just the goddamn size of the levels. I can deal with some of the filler combat, because truth be told most BioWare games have shitty filler combat as well, I kind of expected it. But having to walk back and forth through massively oversized environments and dungeons, which are built specifically to make it take longer to do anything... and then the lack of fast travel points, being forced to use the taxi system that never goes exactly where you want, the 30 minute timer on the shuttle... no, just, fuck you BioWare. That is fucking bullshit and you know it.

Best part is I checked out the official forum - nobody else has caught on to all this. If you want me to pay you goddamn money every month, how about you stop making me waste it. It's obvious that this is all done specifically in the hopes of making people pay another month or two, instead of actually offer them new and meaningful content, and it's fucking insulting and offensive.

 

[abija]

Nobody caught about it? There were hundreds of pages about it. It's one of the main complaints and you didn't even see anything yet. Starter zones are miniatures compared to later ones, the mounts are slow as fuck, there are quests that could be grouped together and aren't so you need to go back to the quest giver 3-5 times, going from planet A to B is a fucking chore each and every time with the useless spaceports and stupid hangars, there are pointless quests between story chapters that just send you to the fleet and back just for the sake of it. (and at least when I played it if you used the fleet pass the quest wouldn't trigger...)
And the best part, whenever you complained about it, in every single fucking thread about this issue, there were a bunch of morons telling people to take it easy and enjoy the scenery.