Editorial Swen Vincke: Gaming journalists don't get Divinity: Original Sin

[Xenich]

I still have a hard time to believe that anyone, even the dumbest, most ignorant shitbrain, could miss the points that make D:OS stand out of the crowd.
I mean just look at the many different interplays between spells and weapons. That stuff is extremely entertaining and fun and really new. I remember the journos getting excited about similar stuff in Dragon Age back in the day but compared to D:OS it's really underdeveloped there.
And what about the coop play? Can't think of any game that comes even close to how D:OS does it, they are literally inventing a new genre here.

Maybe a lot of journos really didn't give the game more than an hour and therefore missed just how unique it is but I still have confidence that most of them will invest more time before judging the game and then it will finally click.

Hate to say it, but it is a a societal thing. Just look at the educational system. They aren't making "thinkers", they are making sheep and herding them out to pasture.

 

[Mangoose]

Heh, that's why I mentionned in my preview that the game has some immediate superficial similarities to Diablo but it thankfully stops there and is instead more complex than that. Anyone who played the game for 15 minutes can see that it isn't the same and with more time and a bit of knowledge about video games it's clear that it's closer to the Ultima side of Divine Divinity than Diablo.

That's perfectly fine for the educated gamers like us. But for the plebes that read Gamespot/IGN/etc I (as an admitted non-journalist) would start out with the hook, "it's like XCOM set in an explorable fantasy setting," or perhaps even "Dragon Age with XCOM combat." I dunno, gamers LOVE XCOM right now (and IMO it paved the way for all these kickstarter turnbased games).

 

[Gragt]

Yeah well if you don't know about something, go look it up. That's what I do. I know it's easier to cater to people's ignorance of course.

 

[Mangoose]

Yeah well if you don't know about something, go look it up. That's what I do. I know it's easier to cater to people's ignorance of course.

Your article and a "typical" journalist's article are different in that they're meant for different audiences. I appreciated your preview a lot and it was very informative. I don't mean to criticize your approach at all.

However for Swen, talking to the magazine/big-site journalist, you've got to tailor your sales pitch to your dumb as bricks audience. And if your audience is dumb as bricks, then you gotta make your argument dumb as bricks but still appealing. Hell, don't even let the journalist make his own impression - TELL HIM the impression he should have. What's happening here, if I'm reading the OP correctly, is that the journalists think to themselves "Ooh, a Diablo game set in a boring fantasyland" and then they get confused when the combat is not real-time.

 

[LundB]

Crossposting what I said in the other thread, since thanks to the news-posters' lust for brofists, we have 2 threads for everything now, but that doesn't mean I'm going to bother writing a whole new post:

Starting the players anywhere doesnt mean much - since they would have already bought the game.
But if they make some kind of free demo that is concentrated specifically on these more interesting features - or, start journalists in such a place that is full of this better more diverse content - that would work.

I already suggested it on the blog, btw.

This is actually a very good idea. Seriously, I'm almost ashamed that I didn't think of it.

The way to do it is definitely to avoid the typical lazy-demo trap of just using the tutorial and the first level/area of the game, with perhaps a later part thrown in. Provided there's adequate explanation at the start to avoid confusing demo-players, it wouldn't even need to be a segment of the base game itself (in which it's hard to showcase everything within the adequate timeframe), but a special demo module custom-built to showcase what Larian deems the key draws of the game in a more concentrated fashion, within the timeframe of a single short adventure. If you really really worry they still aren't getting it, you can even explicitly point out what's being showcased with some form of in-demo commentary (though it'd be nice to have the option to disable the HEY DUMBASS THIS IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SHOW YOU popups or whatever if they're in the demo).

I can think of a number of games that have done this or something similar, though they grew fewer and fewer as time went on. I think it was one of the Jedi Knight games that had a pretty good example: A fairly short level, not found in the base game, that in its short length showcased gunplay, puzzles, saber combat, etc., better than any individual level taken from the game would have. Instead of providing a cut-off chunk of the game itself, having said custom level as the demo allowed the player to get a sense of what the game experience was about as a whole, in a quick condensed format.

With their toolset, it should be possible for Larian to create a short module tailored to this purpose. It would take a bit of thought to figure out how best to address the key aspects they want to cover in such a short package, and would no doubt take some extra time, but if Larian is genuinely worried about people not 'getting' what the game is about, this is probably the best way to solve the problem. It wouldn't help much with reviews, since those would be based on the main game, but it should at least help with previews and the average curious youtuber/random uninformed guy not quite getting what the game's meant to be.

I see this as something very different from a hand-holding tutorial, since those are made to teach someone how to play a game. This is a module/level designed to teach someone what the game is, and what makes it interesting. You slap the tutorial on at the start as you would in the main game if you want, but the bulk of the demo is more analogous to the main game itself, just a far shorter, more condensed version of it.

 

[Xenich]

There is this thing they used to have that came with games many ages ago. What it did was outline the features of play and interaction. You could essentially learn everything you needed to know concerning the game to get the most out of it. They called it a "manual" and it was a little book that had writing in it. Though obviously it is pointless to produce these things anymore because few can read these days.

 

[dnf]

Tutorials are boring, and most rpgs are fun only a whole lot of hours later (hence the "it gets good after double digits hours" meme). At least in the case of presentations, they should borrow some of the action game tropes: They always start with a bang, so right at the start you are fighting titans, colossus or a Metal Gear Ray. The beginning of the game Prelude to Darkness is a nice example as well, putting your party to fight possibily the worst abominations in the world, and not fucking rats.

 

[Snozgobler]

A number of games start you off with powers equivalent to the end of the game, then artificially reduce your power and make you work towards it again (things like the latest castlevania). While I don't think that's useful in D:OS, I do think that some kind of high-powered demo with a short multi-path quest/scenario would be much more useful than the Alpha as a way of teaching journalists what the game is about.

The 3DS game Bravely Default had a completely stand alone demo, it wasn't a section of the main game and character progression in it was not transferrable to the main game. I think something like that may be more useful here, even if it will remove some of the grand open world design from the experience. (and yes, I know that creating something like that requires extra dev time, but it may be a simpler/better investment than hand holding every journalist through the opening of the game)

 

[dnf]

Tutorials are boring, and most rpgs are fun only a whole lot of hours later (hence the "it gets good after double digits hours" meme). At least in the case of presentations, they should borrow some of the action game tropes: They always start with a bang, so right at the start you are fighting titans, colossus or a Metal Gear Ray. The beginning of the game Prelude to Darkness is a nice example as well, putting your party to fight possibily the worst abominations in the world, and not fucking rats.

 

[Mastermind]

Tutorials are boring, and most rpgs are fun only a whole lot of hours later (hence the "it gets good after double digits hours" meme). At least in the case of presentations, they should borrow some of the action game tropes: They always start with a bang, so right at the start you are fighting titans, colossus or a Metal Gear Ray. The beginning of the game Prelude to Darkness is a nice example as well, putting your party to fight possibily the worst abominations in the world, and not fucking rats.

Dragon Age 2 does something like this, except it trolls you by not including HP bloat.

 

[Mangoose]

Let's again not confuse tutorials that are in the launch product for players to play, with demo quests/stages/areas that are meant to both hook the journalist and explain to the journalist how the game works.

 

[dnf]

Tutorials are boring, and most rpgs are fun only a whole lot of hours later (hence the "it gets good after double digits hours" meme). At least in the case of presentations, they should borrow some of the action game tropes: They always start with a bang, so right at the start you are fighting titans, colossus or a Metal Gear Ray. The beginning of the game Prelude to Darkness is a nice example as well, putting your party to fight possibily the worst abominations in the world, and not fucking rats.

Dragon Age 2 does something like this, except it trolls you by not including HP bloat.

i looked a video of the demo, yeah the concept was there. Too bad the presentation is terribad wich is actually the point a demo should make. The Ogre is generic and the combat system is really lame visually. Action gamers would just roll their eyes and keep playing their favorite beat em up.

 

[Xeon]

A tutorial similar to the Witcher 2's is probably good I think, It has no relations to the main game and only there to teach you the basics or whatever.

I would say maybe make the tutorial area in a school or a facility for training agents or something and puts in examples of everything possible to achieve in game, Like for instance you can handle an encounter diplomatically or use violence. You can use magic outside of combat and whatever.

Probably waste of time and resources! Oh and Hiver made a very good point somewhere I can't remember with making a demo or something.

Making the tutorial area as a demo maybe will work? or will that maybe considered a false advertisement for not showing content from the game itself.

Edit:
Derp, Hiver's post was from LundB's post.

 

[Mastermind]

Heh, that's why I mentionned in my preview that the game has some immediate superficial similarities to Diablo

When it flops we'll know who to blame then.

 

[VioletShadow]

It's like he expects "gaming journalists" to actually investigate...what the game is about?

 

[himmy]

ForkTong I'd drop game reference buzzwords. Refer to "XCOM" in order to provide a first impression of the gameplay. As for non-combat, you could say that the object/world interactivity is better than Skyrim's. Not sure what I'd say for the quests and character interaction, perhaps refer to it being like Fallout 3 or Dragon Age?

From the new update:

IGN calls D:OS the new Baldur's Gate
...and Rock, Paper, Shotgun calls it Ultima VII-2

 

[DragoFireheart]

Modern day gaming journalists are so fucking retarded I'm surprised they know how to turn on a computer or know how to operate a keyboard to type their moronic shit. It's no surprise that gaming journalists don't get X, where X is anything.

 

[Infinitron]

...and Rock, Paper, Shotgun calls it Ultima VII-2

They're also so fucking retarded they don't know there already was an actual Ultima VII-2

 

[SuicideBunny]

...and Rock, Paper, Shotgun calls it Ultima VII-2

They're also so fucking retarded they don't know there already was an actual Ultima VII-2

i think it's been established ages ago that they are fucking retards when it comes to games.

 

[Xenich]

Modern day gaming journalists are so fucking retarded I'm surprised they know how to turn on a computer or know how to operate a keyboard to type their moronic shit. It's no surprise that gaming journalists don't get X, where X is anything.

Yeah, I think gaming journalist should have a minor in computer science, be able to program with basic proficiency in at least 2 or more languages, have an A+/Net+ or equivalent and be able to pass a written and tech interview on game history, tech, and design.

Though I am assuming that these days all they need is to be able to read and write as well as own a console.

 

[Monty]

Yeah, I think gaming journalist should have a minor in computer science, be able to program with basic proficiency in at least 2 or more languages, have an A+/Net+ or equivalent and be able to pass a written and tech interview on game history, tech, and design.

Exactly. And for those who don't qualify, the alternative is learning 300 synonyms for 'shit' in order to write a Codex review.

Or 20 synonyms for 'solid 4 out of 5' to write for RPGWatch.

 

[dnf]

...and Rock, Paper, Shotgun calls it Ultima VII-2

They're also so fucking retarded they don't know there already was an actual Ultima VII-2

Or maybe you are just being autistic? Expansions are not sequels.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[hiver]

Crossposting what I said in the other thread, since thanks to the news-posters' lust for brofists, we have 2 threads for everything now, but that doesn't mean I'm going to bother writing a whole new post:

Starting the players anywhere doesnt mean much - since they would have already bought the game.
But if they make some kind of free demo that is concentrated specifically on these more interesting features - or, start journalists in such a place that is full of this better more diverse content - that would work.

I already suggested it on the blog, btw.

This is actually a very good idea. Seriously, I'm almost ashamed that I didn't think of it.

The way to do it is definitely to avoid the typical lazy-demo trap of just using the tutorial and the first level/area of the game, with perhaps a later part thrown in. Provided there's adequate explanation at the start to avoid confusing demo-players, it wouldn't even need to be a segment of the base game itself (in which it's hard to showcase everything within the adequate timeframe), but a special demo module custom-built to showcase what Larian deems the key draws of the game in a more concentrated fashion, within the timeframe of a single short adventure. If you really really worry they still aren't getting it, you can even explicitly point out what's being showcased with some form of in-demo commentary (though it'd be nice to have the option to disable the HEY DUMBASS THIS IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SHOW YOU popups or whatever if they're in the demo).

I can think of a number of games that have done this or something similar, though they grew fewer and fewer as time went on. I think it was one of the Jedi Knight games that had a pretty good example: A fairly short level, not found in the base game, that in its short length showcased gunplay, puzzles, saber combat, etc., better than any individual level taken from the game would have. Instead of providing a cut-off chunk of the game itself, having said custom level as the demo allowed the player to get a sense of what the game experience was about as a whole, in a quick condensed format.

With their toolset, it should be possible for Larian to create a short module tailored to this purpose. It would take a bit of thought to figure out how best to address the key aspects they want to cover in such a short package, and would no doubt take some extra time, but if Larian is genuinely worried about people not 'getting' what the game is about, this is probably the best way to solve the problem. It wouldn't help much with reviews, since those would be based on the main game, but it should at least help with previews and the average curious youtuber/random uninformed guy not quite getting what the game's meant to be.

I see this as something very different from a hand-holding tutorial, since those are made to teach someone how to play a game. This is a module/level designed to teach someone what the game is, and what makes it interesting. You slap the tutorial on at the start as you would in the main game if you want, but the bulk of the demo is more analogous to the main game itself, just a far shorter, more condensed version of it.

They need that - a demo of the best features made specifically for those devolved drone journalists and for players - clearly labeled as such.
BEST OF ORIGINAL SIN - gentlemen.

And more videos of two people playing it together - while doing these interesting things.

And those two "people" should be a guy and a girl. Not two developers, not two journalists, not any two assholes.
Better yet they should be two girls. (and if you -edit- i meant anyone around here, not the devs - think thats like cheap or something then youre a complete retard)

They should film people playing and interacting with each other - having adventures together - laughing together and having romantic moments together.
just like that video of two people getting engaged while playing the game together.

-
Im giving you this stuff for free - but i really should be payed for things like this.
Because you do have a guy who you are paying to invent things like this.


This is the biggest strength of your game and even better - IT IS SOMETHING COMPLETELY UNIQUE IN THE HISTORY OF THE VIDEO GAMES.
There have been co-ops before but nothing quite like this. Ever.

and that is pure platinum in PR...

 

[SuicideBunny]

]They're also so fucking retarded they don't know there already was an actual Ultima VII-2

Or maybe you are just being autistic? Expansions are not sequels.

there is an expansion for ultima 7-1 called forge of virtue. then there is an actual ultima 7-2 called serpent isle which takes place shortly after u7-1. the reason it is called u7-2 is because every new numbering also represents a new engine, while serpent isle was done in the same engine as the black gate. there is also an expansion for u7-2 called the silver seed. don't be a retard like the rps people.