Editorial Swen Vincke: Gaming journalists don't get Divinity: Original Sin

[Darth Roxor]

who the fuck decided it was a good idea to unban dnf

 

[HiddenX]

Closest game to Ultima 7 - is a good slogan for the gaming press.

Hmm I dunno. I kind of feel like the kinds of people who would mistake this for a Diablo clone wouldn't know what Ultima 7 is.

A computer gaming magazine that doesn't know the classics isn't worth to call "computer gaming magazine".

It would be the same as if the Metal Hammer or the Rolling Stone magazine don't had a clue about Jimi Hendrix or Led Zeppelin.

 

[Monty]

Or maybe you are just being autistic?

and because there is precedent in the form of martian dreams and savage empire which both used the u6 engine but were standalone games, rather than expansions.

Spin-off games. Also, unlike Ultima 7 part 2, both these games doesn't have the number "6" in then.

 

[hiver]

Closest game to Ultima 7 - is a good slogan for the gaming press.

Hmm I dunno. I kind of feel like the kinds of people who would mistake this for a Diablo clone wouldn't know what Ultima 7 is.

A computer gaming magazine that doesn't know the classics isn't worth to call "computer gaming magazine".
It would be the same as if the Metal Hammer or the Rolling Stone magazine don't had a clue about Jimi Hendrix or Led Zeppelin.

Yet it is that same kind of "media" that sells a lot of units and if you just go nah,nah,nah ... you arent achieving anything.

Larian should not use any past games as a reference for their own.

If they mean to affect this side of teh business positively - they need to represent their own game - on its own merits - not by associating it with some past games that mass market press or players know nothing about.

Sure it can be mentioned - but it cant be - should not be - the main selling point.

And thats rather clearly THE PROBLEM Sven wrote about.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Don't worry Swen, no one got Dragon Commander as well, journalists or gamers, but if that didnt bring your studio down, i think at this point your pretty much immortal...

 

[bledcarrot]

A computer gaming magazine that doesn't know the classics isn't worth to call "computer gaming magazine".

Well sure, but I was talking about general marketing, not just how you target this kind of thing to gaming journalists. I think Swen's real concern is basically with newer gamers who don't have that point of reference to be able to realise and appreciate the work and effort they've put in to giving this game depth and freedom. I mean dropping the name Ultima 7 is meaningless for those types. Unfortunately some of those newer gamers are game reviewers now and they influence a lot of people, he's worried that the previews/reviews will miss the whole point of this game, which is only incidentally similar to popular isometric RPGs like Diablo but which might get lumped in there with the Diablo clones. I can understand that, it would be shattering to put all this effort in to the detail of your work only to have people miss it all because they didn't know how to play it. I honestly don't think he has much to worry about though. If they've really done what they say they've been trying to do, and my viewings of the gameplay seem to suggest they're certainly on the right track, then the marketing will come from people doing crazy emergent shit in the game and posting videos on youtube, discussing it on forums, etc. I think he's underestimating the influence that online word of mouth has nowadays, both on sales in general and also on reviewers. But we'll see.

 

[Gruia]

First impression matters. I don't follow this game development, but from what i see, it does scream generic or tryhard at it's theme and the setting is being worked to death already. And i have yet to see a good game from them after Divine Divinity.

They sure seem to fail at immersion badly. One would think that having all the tools .. so much text/lore/dialogs and scripts over scripts.

But no, they seem as clueless as ever. Their games always get that light feel, stupid characters, immature, simplistic. underdeveloped . stereotypical

And having this setting .. and adding "a couple" beats more on the same idea.

I was truly disappointed and would be amazed if I'll play this more than 10h (am a backer)

I was fooled by the top down perspective.. but that was lost on them as well.

Some1 needs to tell them that they are bad at this.. "old school rpg"

Just go with "less is more" when you lack talent

 

[FeelTheRads]

This apparently is sufficient to classify the game as just-another-generic-fantasy-rpg-clone not worth spending time on.

Yet another interactive movie blockbuster is not a problem for those same journalists, though.

Because there are so many games coming out, an hour is pretty much the maximum you can hope for when sending out preview code. And apparently that’s already a lot.

Well, it's true than when you play 1 hour of a 5 hour game you can get a more informed preview.

Some1

Fuck off.

 

[SuicideBunny]

They sure seem to fail at immersion badly. One would think that having all the tools .. so much text/lore/dialogs and scripts over scripts.

immersion is subjective. i found dd very immersive and this is just like dd only better in nearly every possible area. if you don't find this or dd immersive, maybe (pseudo-)classical rpgs just aren't your thing...

 

[Martius]

We decided on doing another preview tour this late in development (which really is the most inopportune of times) because it became clear that there are still a lot of journalists out there who think of Divinity:Original Sin as a Diablo clone or a Diablo clone with tactical combat. This despite all the videos, walkthroughs, early access content and previews being out there. Better make that, despite the truckload of videos, walkthroughs, early access content and previews out there.

Oh crap, it reminds me Angry Joe or Jesse Cox saying similar stupid things like "its Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2 just better".

Larian should get YouTubers involved in a big way. The gaming "press" are fucking useless, if not blatantly corrupt. I think good coverage and word of mouth from YouTubers like TB would do more for the game than any shit IGN will come up with

You mean someone like Joe or Jesse?

 

[J_C]

We decided on doing another preview tour this late in development (which really is the most inopportune of times) because it became clear that there are still a lot of journalists out there who think of Divinity:Original Sin as a Diablo clone or a Diablo clone with tactical combat. This despite all the videos, walkthroughs, early access content and previews being out there. Better make that, despite the truckload of videos, walkthroughs, early access content and previews out there.

Oh crap, it reminds me Angry Joe or Jesse Cox saying similar stupid things like "its Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2 just better".

Yeah, I think it was Angry Joe. /Facepalm

 

[Haba]

Well, obviously true? Diablo would be better with tactical turn-based combat!

 

[SuicideBunny]

Well, obviously true? Diablo would be better with tactical turn-based combat!

with tb combat the loot wouldn't drop fast enough for it to be interesting.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

who the fuck decided it was a good idea to unban dnf

Apparently RPG Codex is suffering from the same streamlining which makes Sven worry. Dnf simply paid enough for the auto-regen DLC.

 

[Krraloth]

Meh, name 2 games that let you use magic outside combat in a consistent way, that lets you carve a pumpkin into a helm and that has an eye for quirky quest solving released in the last years and that should tell you why people are not getting it.
They just don't know is possible.

I fucking love some of the old games but when I fire them up I need to switch back into that mindset otherwise I don't get it either.

 

[Volrath]

First impression matters. I don't follow this game development, but from what i see, it does scream generic or tryhard at it's theme and the setting is being worked to death already. And i have yet to see a good game from them after Divine Divinity.

They sure seem to fail at immersion badly. One would think that having all the tools .. so much text/lore/dialogs and scripts over scripts.

But no, they seem as clueless as ever. Their games always get that light feel, stupid characters, immature, simplistic. underdeveloped . stereotypical

And having this setting .. and adding "a couple" beats more on the same idea.

I was truly disappointed and would be amazed if I'll play this more than 10h (am a backer)

I was fooled by the top down perspective.. but that was lost on them as well.

Some1 needs to tell them that they are bad at this.. "old school rpg"

Just go with "less is more" when you lack talent

 

[Kz3r0]

First impression matters. I don't follow this game development, but from what i see, it does scream generic or tryhard at it's theme and the setting is being worked to death already. And i have yet to see a good game from them after Divine Divinity.

They sure seem to fail at immersion badly. One would think that having all the tools .. so much text/lore/dialogs and scripts over scripts.

But no, they seem as clueless as ever. Their games always get that light feel, stupid characters, immature, simplistic. underdeveloped . stereotypical

And having this setting .. and adding "a couple" beats more on the same idea.

I was truly disappointed and would be amazed if I'll play this more than 10h (am a backer)

I was fooled by the top down perspective.. but that was lost on them as well.

Some1 needs to tell them that they are bad at this.. "old school rpg"

Just go with "less is more" when you lack talent

Ignore

 

[dnf]

because it's a full length game with updates to the engine that would require some rather big asset update especially since it uses paperdolls,

Lots of expansions are "a full length game with updates to the engine that would require some rather big asset update which the vanilla game does not..."

lots? ok, name three from roughly the same time as u7 or older.

and because there is precedent in the form of martian dreams and savage empire which both used the u6 engine but were standalone games, rather than expansions.

Spin-off games. Also, unlike Ultima 7 part 2, both these games doesn't have the number "6" in then.

'cept u7-2 started development while u7-1 was being developed and was originally supposed to be a spin-off unrelated to the main series as well.

I think you need to get over the fact that when someone refers to Ultima 7, there is a great chance that he is already mentioning all the addons and the stand alone expansion. 20 years ago was a different perspective, but that doesn't mean it was the correct perspective. As for the development history of Serpent Isle, who gives a shit? What only matters is the result, not the intentions...

 

[SuicideBunny]

and the result is a game, not standalone expansion, with a refined but still roughly the same engine. a common practice back then (goldbox games, fallout 1+2) and still somewhat common now (assasin's creed titles, paotrspod 3+4, vogel's games, or just look up how many titles use the silent storm engine in almost unmodified form).

I think you need to get over the fact that when someone refers to Ultima 7, there is a great chance that he is already mentioning all the addons and the stand alone expansion.

here in a random thread? sure. on rps? not likely. plus there are different standards for quality when it comes to casual forum posts and something that is supposed to be somewhat article-ish.

 

[Arsene Lupin]

One thing you have to keep in mind is that Swen is NEW at this. With Larian's prior games, they had publishers to handle all their PR. Now, they're independent. They're having to market their games directly.

Their first independent game, Dragon Commander, was phenomenal--yet it failed to find critical success due primarily to the fact that reviewers simply didn't know how to categorize it. Virtually every negative review I read, for example, made disparaging comparisons to Starcraft 2--in other words, completely missing the point.

Another thing to consider is that although Larian did use crowdfunding for DOS, Original Sin is NOT a "kickstarter game." This is a AAA CRPG, more akin to The Witcher 2 than even something as impressive as Pillars of Eternity. Larian put up a LOT of their own money on Original Sin--and its success, or failure, will therefore determine the future of Larian Studios.

You can really tell that Swen is getting anxious. He's overworked, doing the press circuit himself, and really needs DOS to be a success in a year packed with big RPG releases, in a market that traditionally disregards games developed outside of North America.

I made a big-ass post on the Lar@Larian blog, but I can't really muster the will to repeat those comments here. This is an... unpleasant situation. I will say this, though: if you want to support Larian and DOS, be vocal. Pop into forum threads about upcoming games and mention DOS as highly-anticipated, tell your friends about it--advertise.

 

[Infinitron]

One thing you have to keep in mind is that Swen is NEW at this. With Larian's prior games, they had publishers to handle all their PR. Now, they're independent. They're having to market their games directly.

Their first independent game, Dragon Commander, was phenomenal--yet it failed to find critical success due primarily to the fact that reviewers simply didn't know how to categorize it. Virtually every negative review I read, for example, made disparaging comparisons to Starcraft 2--in other words, completely missing the point.

Another thing to consider is that although Larian did use crowdfunding for DOS, Original Sin is NOT a "kickstarter game." This is a AAA CRPG, more akin to The Witcher 2 than even something as impressive as Pillars of Eternity. Larian put up a LOT of their own money on Original Sin--and its success, or failure, will therefore determine the future of Larian Studios.

You can really tell that Swen is getting anxious. He's overworked, doing the press circuit himself, and really needs DOS to be a success in a year packed with big RPG releases, in a market that traditionally disregards games developed outside of North America.

I made a big-ass post on the Lar@Larian blog, but I can't really muster the will to repeat those comments here. This is an... unpleasant situation. I will say this, though: if you want to support Larian and DOS, be vocal. Pop into forum threads about upcoming games and mention DOS as highly-anticipated, tell your friends about it--advertise.

It seems that you have inside information about Larian's financial state. Is that an accurate perception?

 

[Monty]

One thing you have to keep in mind is that Swen is NEW at this. With Larian's prior games, they had publishers to handle all their PR. Now, they're independent. They're having to market their games directly.

Their first independent game, Dragon Commander, was phenomenal--yet it failed to find critical success due primarily to the fact that reviewers simply didn't know how to categorize it. Virtually every negative review I read, for example, made disparaging comparisons to Starcraft 2--in other words, completely missing the point.

Another thing to consider is that although Larian did use crowdfunding for DOS, Original Sin is NOT a "kickstarter game." This is a AAA CRPG, more akin to The Witcher 2 than even something as impressive as Pillars of Eternity. Larian put up a LOT of their own money on Original Sin--and its success, or failure, will therefore determine the future of Larian Studios.

You can really tell that Swen is getting anxious. He's overworked, doing the press circuit himself, and really needs DOS to be a success in a year packed with big RPG releases, in a market that traditionally disregards games developed outside of North America.

I made a big-ass post on the Lar@Larian blog, but I can't really muster the will to repeat those comments here. This is an... unpleasant situation. I will say this, though: if you want to support Larian and DOS, be vocal. Pop into forum threads about upcoming games and mention DOS as highly-anticipated, tell your friends about it--advertise.

Interesting post. I'm sure DOS will eventually be a success as it's a superb game but I'm starting to wonder how many full price copies they'll sell as it may take a while for word of mouth to spread if the reviews are as retarded as some of the previews.

And thought you were Nomask when I saw the avatar.

 

[Korron]

Yeah I hope whatever they decide to do doesn't make me slog through a tutorial. It doesn't really matter to me if it's a financial success. Didn't Swen say in a blog not to long ago that lifetime sales are more important than initial sales? I'd say the best strategy for financial success is make a good game, previews be damned.

 

[Applypoison]

Yeah I hope whatever they decide to do doesn't make me slog through a tutorial. It doesn't really matter to me if it's a financial success. Didn't Swen say in a blog not to long ago that lifetime sales are more important than initial sales? I'd say the best strategy for financial success is make a good game, previews be damned.

If you appreciate a game or its creators, their financial success should very much be a concern. As for "a good game sells itself", bullshit spewed by publishers (or emasculated devs).

Here, this article offers a nice reality check, and some lols:
Five PR tips indies shouldn't read

My favorite part:

If a single website writes negatively about your game, it’s more likely that other websites will be influenced by that: the press often doesn’t have time to come up with opinions of their own and will refer to one another to find out what opinion is popular to have. Most websites will follow the more accepted opinion while some are known to intentionally chose an opposing statement.

 

[NotAGolfer]

Yeah I hope whatever they decide to do doesn't make me slog through a tutorial. It doesn't really matter to me if it's a financial success. Didn't Swen say in a blog not to long ago that lifetime sales are more important than initial sales? I'd say the best strategy for financial success is make a good game, previews be damned.

If you appreciate a game or its creators, their financial success should very much be a concern. As for "a good game sells itself", bullshit spewed by publishers (or emasculated devs).

Here, this article offers a nice reality check, and some lols:
Five PR tips indies shouldn't read

My favorite part:

If a single website writes negatively about your game, it’s more likely that other websites will be influenced by that: the press often doesn’t have time to come up with opinions of their own and will refer to one another to find out what opinion is popular to have. Most websites will follow the more accepted opinion while some are known to intentionally chose an opposing statement.

In case you didn't know:
That favorite part of yours is meant ironically, just like the rest of that article.
I pretty much agree with it btw, this nonsense about gaming journos copypasting from each other and being too stupid to think on their own seems immature, arrogant gamer trash talk to me.
No, the reasons for all those >90% ratings for AAA shit have nothing to do with time ... but Doritos and Mountain Dew obviously.