Review Sword and Sorcery -- Underworld Review

[Archibald]

People have a right to rage at those that dismiss old games because of the graphics alone. Having said that, people do have a point in dismissing games based on terrible art direction, interface. It's one thing to play an old game and complain that there's only 256 colors or that it's pixelated. If that's all that stops you from playing then you should rightly be derided as a next-gen graphic whore faggot. If on the other hand the style of the graphics and content is soinappropriate given the setting that they ruin the 'immershun' then it is quite correct to deride and reject a game because of it's graphics.

Immershun matters in a dungeon crawler. You learn something new every day.

 

[felipepepe]

Felipepepe is right in nailing why the graphics here suck. Seeing a badly cropped stock picture of Spiderman appear as the avatar of the evil warlock on dungeon level 12 is just too fucking much to bear. Show nothing for fucks sake if that's the alternative! Just splash 'Encounter' and a description of your foe!

Exactly. The point is not that it looks worse than games from the 80's (and it does), but that it uses random images (with I seriously doubt he has any rights to) and sells it for $20!

Pirate an 90's game, like Eye of the Beholder or any Wizardry and you gonna get better gameplay, better story, better graphics, and save 20 bucks. And it would be as legal as this game rapping other people's art.

 

[DragoFireheart]

People have a right to rage at those that dismiss old games because of the graphics alone. Having said that, people do have a point in dismissing games based on terrible art direction, interface. It's one thing to play an old game and complain that there's only 256 colors or that it's pixelated. If that's all that stops you from playing then you should rightly be derided as a next-gen graphic whore faggot. If on the other hand the style of the graphics and content is soinappropriate given the setting that they ruin the 'immershun' then it is quite correct to deride and reject a game because of it's graphics.

Immershun matters in a dungeon crawler. You learn something new every day.

'OH MY GOD THIS DUNGEON CRAWLER DOESN'T TAKE ITSELF SERIOUSLY WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

 

[Elwro]

Guys, I really think Charles paid for these pictures. You might've seen them elsewhere, but that's a different point.

 

[Black Bart Charley]

o hai guys gettin steamy in here

 

[Luzur]

Guys, I really think Charles paid for these pictures. You might've seen them elsewhere, but that's a different point.

if so he was fooled out of his money.

i am sorry Charles, but you need to get hold of someone that can make you good pics that makes sense and fits into the game, even if it is MS-Paint pics.

 

[Peter]

Good god, why didn't he just hire an artist? Hell, even Kingdom of Loathing type stick figures would be better than a mashup of random Google images. In fact, I bet that'd be pretty damn neat if the art were consistent.

How can anyone defend this at the $20 price point? It's not even about graphics vs gameplay, It's about giving money to someone who clearly doesn't give a shit, so he can continue not giving a shit.

 

[commie]

People have a right to rage at those that dismiss old games because of the graphics alone. Having said that, people do have a point in dismissing games based on terrible art direction, interface. It's one thing to play an old game and complain that there's only 256 colors or that it's pixelated. If that's all that stops you from playing then you should rightly be derided as a next-gen graphic whore faggot. If on the other hand the style of the graphics and content is soinappropriate given the setting that they ruin the 'immershun' then it is quite correct to deride and reject a game because of it's graphics.

Immershun matters in a dungeon crawler. You learn something new every day.

'OH MY GOD THIS DUNGEON CRAWLER DOESN'T TAKE ITSELF SERIOUSLY WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

So what? That makes it better? When I'm supposedly after some malevolent undead it doesn't help to have the undead represented by Rainbow Brite.

All these posters now defending shitty inappropriate graphics make me laugh. Maybe you like your games to be without any coherence, that's fine, maybe in the next release there can be super mario sections in between Call of Duty sections and you'll lap it up cause it's cool and 'not serious'.

 

[DragoFireheart]

So what? That makes it better? When I'm supposedly after some malevolent undead it doesn't help to have the undead represented by Rainbow Brite. What are you, a retard?

All these faggots now defending shitty inappropriate graphics make me laugh. Maybe you like your games to be without any coherence, that's fine, maybe in the next release there can be super mario sections in between Call of Duty sections and you'll lap it up cause it's cool and 'not serious'.

If the issue is the price tag then that is an issue I am not focusing on at all. My gripe with the complainers is that they expect the game to be of a particular level of "seriousness". Why must the game be immerisve and take itself seriously? Is that suddenly a requirement for a dungeon crawler? How exactly is the product being marketed?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Herzlich willkommen zum Ravishing Pretty Graphics Codex.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Maybe you like your games to be without any coherence, that's fine, maybe in the next release there can be super mario sections in between Call of Duty sections and you'll lap it up cause it's cool and 'not serious'.

There we go. Graphics firmly placed on the same level of importance as gameplay.

It does look horrible, though.

 

[Luzur]

Dungeon Master Super Mario of Might and Magic.

 

[Charles-cgr]

Now looks like a good time to provide a lil explanation. Especially with the part about being accused of copyright infringement. I really hesitated because of the MS Paint comments. MS Paintjobs don't look anything like that and you all know it.

Also there is nothing remotely close to spiderman & I really don't see what rainbow brite or Google have to do with anything here.

If I had a mind to steal art, I would've done just as was suggested above. Rip it out of Wiz VII. But there's no way I'm going to do that. So I paid for stock art. No Wiz VII - like stock art being available, I used the best fitting images available. Whatever I couldn't find (tiles & GUI) I made myself.

I could have hired an artist if I had $20-50K handy to have 100 monster pics done + the fullscreens + the GUI + the tilesets. But I didn't, so I figured I'd take a first step. I thought maybe I could find a couple thousand old farts & then I would have a budget.

I'm worse at market studies than I am at drawing.

 

[torpid]

I understand Indie low-budget games. But I don't understand $20 Indie low-budget games.

$20 isn't low-budget? Fucking Steam has warped everyone's expectations.

And I'm not going to argue with someone who believes RPGs are about "1º Gameplay; 2º Graphics". Story is where, bellow Customer Support, above Box Art?

Yes, because the older titles this game emulates, such as M&M or Wizardry, had such engaging stories.

 

[felipepepe]

My gripe with the complainers is that they expect the game to be of a particular level of "seriousness". Why must the game be immerisve and take itself seriously? Is that suddenly a requirement for a dungeon crawler? How exactly is the product being marketed?

From the official website: Buy Underworld and immerse yourself in a large, deep and dark world of Swords and Sorcery… 80s style!
I can understand and enjoy a funny dungeon crawler, if is the concept of the game. But this is just an lazy way of making it, with no connection to the game setting.

MS Paintjobs don't look anything like that and you all know it.

The stock images don't look like MS Paint, but the way you placed them in the game, with rough edges and borders sure looks like MS Paint.

And why spend money (it may not be 20k, but wasn't cheap either) on so many stock images that don't fit together if you are making a game for the hardcore fans? Just save the money and go text-only, or commission some unemployed artist on Deviant Art to do something more "setting-like". They don't need to be pro-like, just to make sense.

 

[Charles-cgr]

And why spend money (it may not be 20k, but wasn't cheap either) on so many stock images that don't fit together if you are making a game for the hardcore fans? Just save the money and go text-only, or commission some unemployed artist on Deviant Art to do something more "setting-like". They don't need to be pro-like, just to make sense.

It was wayyyy less than 20K. And the kind of artist you refer to don't generally stick to a project this size.

But this is the part I'd like to clarify most. What images don't make sense? The kid isn't a foe, it's really a kid. Other than that I don't see any image that "doesn't make sense".

 

[Zdzisiu]

The problem with the kid is the fact that it is badly cut out and there are visible white pixels all around it. This shit doesn't blend with the background. That's why it looks like something from MS Paint.

 

[Morkar Left]

I think it's more about the different artstyles and how the pictures get blend in. The kid looks especially out of place with the anime eyes and emo haircut.

The pictures are ok for me but I wonder why you haven't made the stone walls etc in the environment more fashionable to the pictures. The pictures are highres and the stonewalls are mspaint-style. Why not just grab a cam make a picture fron an old historical stonewall etc. and use this as textures after some polishing?

And personally I wpuld prefer if the pictures would fill out the complete dungeon window if they occur.

 

[Roguey]

I played the demo and while sneak attacking for massive damage was fun (as it always is) it was too abstract for my tastes. Walking around a town and Bam! Bandits! is something I don't like anymore. I hope the hypothetical next one has maybe a bit more internal logic and fewer random fights for the sake of having them.

 

[felipepepe]

And why spend money (it may not be 20k, but wasn't cheap either) on so many stock images that don't fit together if you are making a game for the hardcore fans? Just save the money and go text-only, or commission some unemployed artist on Deviant Art to do something more "setting-like". They don't need to be pro-like, just to make sense.

It was wayyyy less than 20K. And the kind of artist you refer to don't generally stick to a project this size.

But this is the part I'd like to clarify most. What images don't make sense? The kid isn't a foe, it's really a kid. Other than that I don't see any image that "doesn't make sense".

Dude, if you bought 100 monster stock images for an retail game, at least $500-$1k you spend. With that you could get someone to do art. Especially if you hire an artist from a country where dollars are worth a lot. 1k dolars are 1,6k reais, something like 2-3 months of work in Brazil.

I didn't played to be able to say all the images that don't fit in, but even you, the game creator reckons that among the few released screenshots there is a image that makes little sense. If not a flaw that ruins the game, it is at least a really bad marketing move.

Walking around a town and Bam! Bandits! is something I don't like anymore. I hope the hypothetical next one has maybe a bit more internal logic and fewer random fights for the sake of having them.

On this one I stand with Charles. The game is based on old-dungeon crawlers, where life was tough and crossing the street could mean your death.

 

[Lord Rocket]

I saw '43 comments on this article' on the front page and I thought, 'hey, an actual RPG getting some love on the Codex, good show lads' but then I went into the thread and it's like 38 posts biching about fucking graphics, you fucking sacks of shit.

Still, as long as Charles is here, are you going to drop the price any time soon? I'd like to buy this but honestly it just isn't worth $20 to me, given that I'll never finish it.

 

[Metro]

I'm not a graphics whore by any stretch of the imagination (I'm still milking a 4+ year old dated video card) but there is a certain floor I expect a developer to reach. As someone else mentioned the graphics shouldn't be so bad as to distract from the game itself. There is a difference between 'indie' and flat out lazy. Just make a text adventure and charge $2... not $20.

And low price points have nothing to do with being 'spoiled' it is simply what the market bears. Indie/small studios like Frictional put out stuff like Penumbra and Amnesia for $20 which has a lot more polish. Do they have more resources/operating capital than Charles here? Obviously, but they also have more expenses. Don't expect to reap a windfall on your first go round.

 

[turn_based_fanboy]

I'm sorry to say so buy when you get Recetear for 5$ during steam sale it's hard to be enthusiastic about this.

Perhaps author should rethink bussiness model and instead of trying to find 500 people to pay 20$ it would be easier to put it on steam and try to get 5000 people to pay 3-4$.

 

[Metro]

The game is already on Gamersgate and, while not as big as Steam, isn't exactly chopped liver. He has a platform for publicity/exposure just an unrealistic price point. Sorry if people think otherwise but it's the reality of the market.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I saw '43 comments on this article' on the front page and I thought, 'hey, an actual RPG getting some love on the Codex, good show lads' but then I went into the thread and it's like 38 posts biching about fucking graphics, you fucking sacks of shit.

Yeah, gameplay is all that matters really.

Still, as long as Charles is here, are you going to drop the price any time soon? I'd like to buy this but honestly it just isn't worth $20 to me, given that I'll never finish it.

Or maybe not.