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Vapourware System Shock 3 by OtherSide Entertainment - taken over by Tencent!
- Thread starter LESS T_T
- Start date
Maybe he shoukd remember what made deus ex so great instead of trying to forget it
Heretic
Cipher
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I don't think that's what he meant. He was attempting to say "I want to make this game so good, that it's so much better than Deus Ex that this will be the new savior."
LESS T_T
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2012
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- 13,582
Spector will receive an honorary award in some fun and serious Spanish game festival in November, and apparently he will "explain the development of his latest project, System Shock 3" there: http://en.funandseriousgamefestival...y-award-at-the-6th-fun-serious-game-festival/
Not much to expect as this is in early phase of development, I guess.
He will also talk about something at Sweden Game Conference next month: http://swedengamearena.com/conference/
Not much to expect as this is in early phase of development, I guess.
He will also talk about something at Sweden Game Conference next month: http://swedengamearena.com/conference/
LESS T_T
Arcane
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I guess System Shock 3 will be enhancing me to prepare the war between human and super AI. (hint: all praise SHODAN.)
LESS T_T
Arcane
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Well, there was livestream.
- A bit about his vision for environmental storytelling in SS3: His team is looking at creating much deeper environment that you can explore and interactive with more deeply. He want to enhance the environmental storytelling pioneered in SS1 with most interactive way he has ever trying to create. He thinks it'll be exciting to players in not just narrative standpoint but also in gameplay standpoint.
- A bit about his vision for environmental storytelling in SS3: His team is looking at creating much deeper environment that you can explore and interactive with more deeply. He want to enhance the environmental storytelling pioneered in SS1 with most interactive way he has ever trying to create. He thinks it'll be exciting to players in not just narrative standpoint but also in gameplay standpoint.
There is a thread on the official forum that talks about how the devs want to "streamline the game" which almost made me lose my shit, but I am going to keep positive for now. Some stuff concerns me though.
One minute they say it will be SS3, then they say it is basically just a remake of SS1 and show a demo that looks identical to SS1 but with new graphics, and now it is SS3 again. I wish it would be one thing or the other. I don't want SS1 again but with stuff changed, because to me that game is as close to a masterpiece as I've ever played. Either remake it accurately with a new engine, or make a new game all together. I don't like it when companies stretch themselves too thinly. If they don't have a decent budget then just remake SS1 and spend time making it spotless. If they do have a decent budget, then don't pussy out on a reboot, make a whole new game with new story, new locations, and some new mechanics.
Also better hacking would be great, but I hope they don't end up relying on gimmicks because the game needs a lot more than kewl mini games. I love the SS games and they were really revolutionary at the time, but even something awesome and ahead of its time is going to leave things to be desired to people 22 years later. The gunplay needs to be really good, there needs to be huge recoil on some older mechanical weapons and they need to feel heavy and sound loud and rip through zombies like a 357 magnum. It all needs to be balanced like the original so that bullets mostly bounce off robots, and lazer fire just gently smoulders on zombies. etc. And with very limited ammo, the player needs to play smart and the tension mostly comes from not being able to just confront any enemy you find and blow it to bits. There are already a million Doom games, this needs to be a game where you run away and hide and then decide on one location you are going to fight to first and hope you find enough stuff there to continue further. Also you should never be able to just run up to an enemy and kill it with an iron bar. It needs to require a few hits to kill stuff, and they need to hit back really hard, so melee attacks should be an absolute last resort. Dumbing down System Shock is not only gaming blasphemy but it would also be incredibly dumb seeing as Bioshock already went there and did it. Three times.
Also the whole death mechanic needs work. I think overall the first game was the best and was certainly the most revolutionary, but the death mechanic wasn't very good. As a new player it was pretty terrifying, but once you got to grips with the game (and on any future replays), you learned to just aim straight for the regeneration room as your first objective in every new area. And once you had that, the game kind of lost all tension and challenge. Death didn't matter and in fact it actually benefited you sometimes because you would respawn with about 50% health and power so if you were already lower than that and struggling to make progress, you may as well just suicide and then repop ready to roll. SS2 did it better because there was a cost for respawning and those nanites or whatever it was that got used up, were not very common. I think in SS3 they need to make it harder and a bit more unforgiving. It should be so that the respawns are rare, so if you die, you have quite far to travel back to where you originally died. Also if enemies respawn this could mean you have to fight back to where you died which uses up more ammo and resources as well as your time. Maybe make it so that you are injured or weakened for a while after respawning to. Also they need to limit saves somehow, either a limited number per location or checkpoints or something similar. Spamming quicksave every 2 seconds so you can just F9 reload when you fuck up makes games boring and dumb. Harsh punishments really work great in games because it makes people terrified of dying, and everything becomes WAY more intense and meaningful when you absolutely have to play cautiously. All the proof you ever need is in EverQuest.
Also the half assed classes system needs to be developed properly. It was cool having a FPS with some character building and custom choices way back in the 1800s, but it wasn't a well done system. There were Psi abilities but they didn't work very well so although it pretended to let you make different sorts of characters or 'builds', it mostly boiled down to playing the same way, guns. My concern with this is that it takes so much time and effort (and money) to make a system like this that actually works well. Say for example you let the player have Fallout style perks and one will boost your explosives expertise. What tends to happen is that someone will focus on that, load up on rocket launchers and grenades and stuff, and either the game becomes too easy because already powerful weapons now because OP. And/Or what happens is that they quickly run out of rockets/grenades and then discover that perk was a total waste of time and they should have just chosen to boost something boring like hand guns which have the most common ammo. And of course, you can never respec in most games so it is just a big let down. It takes major effort and skill and beta testing to get this all balanced and I prefer it when games just don't bother. Imo they should just split it and make only 2 build options. Both should be able to hack and shouldn't need to balance points into fundamental gameplay things like hacking vending machines or whatever. All players should get all the basics and the game can then be balanced around knowing just how many vending machines there are and how much ammo they are going to have etc. Then just add some specialisation stuff on top of that which is mostly superficial. It could be that one build is typical guns, and the other build is PSI. Make it so that psi abilities do similar damage to whatever a gun build can do and job done. Just don't go making multiple options because it gets messy and ends up with stuff that sucks, stuff that is OP, and everyone googling for which cookie cutter build is best or most fun.
TL-DR: Don't fuck this up like every other reboot ever.
p.s. Don't come up with a new conversation system..... This isn't Dragon Age. The whole reason the SS games were so creepy is because there were no other living people in the entire game. You spend the whole time by yourself, creeping around, listening to audio logs of dead people. The only other moving things are haywire robots and stuff out to kill you. It made the whole thing feel so isolated and scary and made you so paranoid and on edge. Having people to chat to will ruin that, and if it just a few choices at the start of the game or something, then don't waste time trying to come up with a new system. Numbered line choices is fine.
One minute they say it will be SS3, then they say it is basically just a remake of SS1 and show a demo that looks identical to SS1 but with new graphics, and now it is SS3 again. I wish it would be one thing or the other. I don't want SS1 again but with stuff changed, because to me that game is as close to a masterpiece as I've ever played. Either remake it accurately with a new engine, or make a new game all together. I don't like it when companies stretch themselves too thinly. If they don't have a decent budget then just remake SS1 and spend time making it spotless. If they do have a decent budget, then don't pussy out on a reboot, make a whole new game with new story, new locations, and some new mechanics.
Also better hacking would be great, but I hope they don't end up relying on gimmicks because the game needs a lot more than kewl mini games. I love the SS games and they were really revolutionary at the time, but even something awesome and ahead of its time is going to leave things to be desired to people 22 years later. The gunplay needs to be really good, there needs to be huge recoil on some older mechanical weapons and they need to feel heavy and sound loud and rip through zombies like a 357 magnum. It all needs to be balanced like the original so that bullets mostly bounce off robots, and lazer fire just gently smoulders on zombies. etc. And with very limited ammo, the player needs to play smart and the tension mostly comes from not being able to just confront any enemy you find and blow it to bits. There are already a million Doom games, this needs to be a game where you run away and hide and then decide on one location you are going to fight to first and hope you find enough stuff there to continue further. Also you should never be able to just run up to an enemy and kill it with an iron bar. It needs to require a few hits to kill stuff, and they need to hit back really hard, so melee attacks should be an absolute last resort. Dumbing down System Shock is not only gaming blasphemy but it would also be incredibly dumb seeing as Bioshock already went there and did it. Three times.
Also the whole death mechanic needs work. I think overall the first game was the best and was certainly the most revolutionary, but the death mechanic wasn't very good. As a new player it was pretty terrifying, but once you got to grips with the game (and on any future replays), you learned to just aim straight for the regeneration room as your first objective in every new area. And once you had that, the game kind of lost all tension and challenge. Death didn't matter and in fact it actually benefited you sometimes because you would respawn with about 50% health and power so if you were already lower than that and struggling to make progress, you may as well just suicide and then repop ready to roll. SS2 did it better because there was a cost for respawning and those nanites or whatever it was that got used up, were not very common. I think in SS3 they need to make it harder and a bit more unforgiving. It should be so that the respawns are rare, so if you die, you have quite far to travel back to where you originally died. Also if enemies respawn this could mean you have to fight back to where you died which uses up more ammo and resources as well as your time. Maybe make it so that you are injured or weakened for a while after respawning to. Also they need to limit saves somehow, either a limited number per location or checkpoints or something similar. Spamming quicksave every 2 seconds so you can just F9 reload when you fuck up makes games boring and dumb. Harsh punishments really work great in games because it makes people terrified of dying, and everything becomes WAY more intense and meaningful when you absolutely have to play cautiously. All the proof you ever need is in EverQuest.
Also the half assed classes system needs to be developed properly. It was cool having a FPS with some character building and custom choices way back in the 1800s, but it wasn't a well done system. There were Psi abilities but they didn't work very well so although it pretended to let you make different sorts of characters or 'builds', it mostly boiled down to playing the same way, guns. My concern with this is that it takes so much time and effort (and money) to make a system like this that actually works well. Say for example you let the player have Fallout style perks and one will boost your explosives expertise. What tends to happen is that someone will focus on that, load up on rocket launchers and grenades and stuff, and either the game becomes too easy because already powerful weapons now because OP. And/Or what happens is that they quickly run out of rockets/grenades and then discover that perk was a total waste of time and they should have just chosen to boost something boring like hand guns which have the most common ammo. And of course, you can never respec in most games so it is just a big let down. It takes major effort and skill and beta testing to get this all balanced and I prefer it when games just don't bother. Imo they should just split it and make only 2 build options. Both should be able to hack and shouldn't need to balance points into fundamental gameplay things like hacking vending machines or whatever. All players should get all the basics and the game can then be balanced around knowing just how many vending machines there are and how much ammo they are going to have etc. Then just add some specialisation stuff on top of that which is mostly superficial. It could be that one build is typical guns, and the other build is PSI. Make it so that psi abilities do similar damage to whatever a gun build can do and job done. Just don't go making multiple options because it gets messy and ends up with stuff that sucks, stuff that is OP, and everyone googling for which cookie cutter build is best or most fun.
TL-DR: Don't fuck this up like every other reboot ever.
p.s. Don't come up with a new conversation system..... This isn't Dragon Age. The whole reason the SS games were so creepy is because there were no other living people in the entire game. You spend the whole time by yourself, creeping around, listening to audio logs of dead people. The only other moving things are haywire robots and stuff out to kill you. It made the whole thing feel so isolated and scary and made you so paranoid and on edge. Having people to chat to will ruin that, and if it just a few choices at the start of the game or something, then don't waste time trying to come up with a new system. Numbered line choices is fine.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 99,628
They've invited some brand confusion here, haven't they.
grimace
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2015
- Messages
- 2,084
Ahh thanks. It could work out ok if the remake hits first and raises some awareness and interest, and then SS3 comes along to cash in. I just hope they can make ss3 a hardcore rpg shooter and not just an action game.
I was informed on Twitter that this video has been made private now. Too bad. I wonder why.
DeepOcean
Arcane
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2012
- Messages
- 7,404
Yep, Warren Spector is just one step away from Peter Molyneux at this point.
grimace
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2015
- Messages
- 2,084
And how many degrees away from Kevin Bacon?
Here's where I'm getting concerned. OtherSide has 3 games in development. And then
after
http://www.polygon.com/2016/2/17/11034836/warren-spector-otherside-entertainment
Three games in development and the first game's release pushed back???
Azrael the cat
Arcane
I really think gaming needs to forget about focussing on old greats - remember them for their great work, but don't keep on following them and expect them to recreate it. Nobody expects that with musicians - it's considered completely natural that they'll do 2 to 4 great albums, and then continue producing stuff because they need to make a living, but that stuff will never be as relevant as their early work. Yes, there are exceptions - Nick Cave, Geldof....um Nick Cave....Ok, there's a few exceptions. And even they fade out for a good decade or so every now and then - they're more 'decade on, decade off', form-wise than 'consistently great'.
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- Jul 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,361
I'm not sure that anyone was expecting an entire game to be made by like 6 people to come out this year. If you were, you're a fool.
Azrael the cat
Arcane
SS3 is looking a lot like Warren Spector making a Deus Ex game using the SS setting. There's nothing inherently wrong with that - it's just an expectations shift, they're both great games, and the SS setting does invite a more conversation + C&C type spin-off game (there were definitely moments in SS2 where I wished I had Deus Ex style choices and interactivity - eg the ability to send a fucking grenade at the escaping couple before they took off in the last escape pod, potentially spreading the Many parasite to Earth).
Johannes
Arcane
When do you think Bethoven peaked
toro
Arcane
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- Apr 14, 2009
- Messages
- 14,798
They are old and they need a decade to warm up for some real game development.
grimace
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2015
- Messages
- 2,084
Well said.
A game development studio will have more talent with artists, writers, musicians, etc to create the finished game. Game developers need young talent to keep things up to date and old talent to share lessons already learned.
Azrael the cat
Did you back Underworld Ascendant?
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