The 90s was the apex of coolness in gaming, right?

[Melcar]

I think part of the problem is in the way they market the games now. Everything is so stale, formulaic. Back then there were no set rules and everyone was still experimenting on what worked or not.
These days everyone markets the same it seems. AAA games seem to run on the same marketing department, indie games rely on virtually the same tools to get their games out into the public eye.
Looking at the art in the above post makes me want to try the games, even if they are shit. But if I browse through the Steam store I'm like "meh". Nothing catches the eye. No creativity when it comes to this. This is why they rely on nostalgia bait because they realize "hey, this shit is better than our modern shit".

 

[mondblut]

In gaming?

The 90s was the apex of coolness in everything.

 

[Melcar]

Maybe 2090 will be another cool decade.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

In gaming?

The 90s was the apex of coolness in everything.

The '90s were a decline from the '80s, although this still meant the decade as a whole was strong in many respects since it began well. Decades should be judged more by the trends within them, and during the 1990s:

• Pop music went to hell in the middle of the decade and has never recovered
• Commodore went bankrupt in 1994, relegating us to PC clones or --- God forbid! --- Apple computers
• TSR went bankrupt in 1997, ruining Dungeons & Dragons
• Hollywood became increasingly politicized, a trend that has continued to this day, and began imposing political correctness in films
• Early-stage wokeness, under the name of political correctness, became dominant generally
• Progressivism organized a new economic base of support, centered around Big Tech, Big Finance, and Big Media, that became the preeminent force in American society

 

[Melcar]

I say the late 90s is where all the decline happened. Think of it as a transition period between awesome 80s and shit new century. The last gasp of humanity.

 

[mondblut]

The '90s were a decline from the '80s, although this still meant the decade as a whole was strong in many respects since it began well. Decades should be judged more by the trends within them, and during the 1990s:
[*]Pop music went to hell in the middle of the decade and has never recovered

Pop music went to hell in the 70s, when it separated from rock music and disco reared its ugly gay negro face.

OTOH, early 90s brought us black metal and apocalyptic folk, and late 90s, martial industrial.

[*]Commodore went bankrupt in 1994, relegating us to PC clones or --- God forbid! --- Apple computers

Nothing of value was lost. They lagged behind PC and brought it upon themselves.

[*]TSR went bankrupt in 1997, ruining Dungeons & Dragons

True, but they had their best run (as far as customers are concerned) during the first half of 90s. And all the good D&D computer games except for the first couple (and TOEE) were made in the 90s.

[*]Hollywood became increasingly politicized, a trend that has continued to this day, and began imposing political correctness in films

True, but the backlash against it has been very entertaining and powerful enough to make careers (see South Park), not break them as it does now.

[*]Early-stage wokeness, under the name of political correctness, became dominant generally

That shit has been creeping in since the 60s. Should've thought about that before NOT mowing down muh civil rights movement.

 

[Gahbreeil]

I'm more of a 00's XXIst century kind'a person regarding video games but I agree with Mondblut, the 90's were pretty cool overall.

 

[That_Scumbag]

That is a problem indeed. The older media still existing is undoubtedly a good thing, but it feels less satisfying when you have nobody to share it with.

If you can’t get the rights, then make spiritual successors

Too bad this approach doesn't seem to work for JRPGs. When they announced Suikoden successor, Eiyden Chronicles, everyone were happy, when it came out it turned out to be crap. Or when they released Chrono Trigger successor (their words), Sea of Stars, which just caters to crowd who are not even JRPG fans. Whenever I see someone use words like "spiritual successor" or "love letter" when marketing a JRPG game, it just makes me sick.

God, don't even remind me of what they did to Eiyuden Chronicles. They butchered the game with woke BS because western crap is what I want when I buy a JRPG, of course!

 

[ghardy]

Did you get laid at E3, and was it with Chris Avellone?

If there was anyone to screw back then, t'was Sheena Easton.

Notice how much better she is and the photo is than the try-hard attempts of Instathots and OnlyHoes?

How far we have fallen in a few decades...

 

[KeAShizuku]

Videogames were for nerds.

And goddammit no nerd doesn't mean "I watch Marvel movies".

 

[DavidBVal]

This is in the Gazebo, so I'm not sure why the thread is mostly about videogames.

I'll discuss tabletop only. My answer to the original poster is "depends on what you ask".

The 1990s was the best decade for a RPG gamer to enjoy the hobby, because you could enjoy all the incredible stuff released in the 80s, and add a few cool things from the early 90s. But while the 80s was an explosion in creativity with dozens of amazing games, very different rulesets and rich, original settings, the 90s is the decade where everything went to shit and most games died.

The "hot decade" was roughly between 1983 and 1993. The rise of MtG in 93 disrupted tabletop forever, and while still some good stuff was released, it was mostly inertia, since the creative teams did not stop releasing overnight. Nearly every system declined sharply.

Let's break down game by game, at least the ones I know/played:

Rolemaster and MERP: clearly the best years were 1983-1990. MERP in 84 did well, and they had some lovely Middle Earth stuff released in the few following years, but then they started with the filler. ICE was in a sorry state after 1990.

D&D: In 1983 TSR released Mentzer's BECMI, by 1989 AD&D 2e, 1991 Rules Cyclopedia. That is, they had two succesful (and amazing) games in active development. After 1995 the Basic branch was pretty much dead, and AD&D2e was releasing a weak revision of the same rules. About the settings, have a look at the dates. Greyhawk (80), Mystara (81), Ravenloft (83), Dragonlance (84), Lankhmar (85), Forgotten realms (87), Spelljammer (89), Dark Sun (91), Al-Quadim (92) and Planescape in 94. But by 1996 they had pretty much killed all of them, with the exception of Forgotten Realms (Planescape still released stuff in 1996, and probably there were other exceptions). Real sad.

WFRP: my favorite RPG, released in 1986. Some of the best adventures ever released for any RPG were released between 1986 and 1989 (Lichemaster, Shadows over Bogenhafen, Death on the Reik). By 1990 Games Workshop abandoned it and licensed a couple publishers during the 90s (Flame first, Hogshead next), which weren't terrible, but didn't manage to release anything noteworthy, nor released enough content to keep the game truly alive.

Vampire the Masquerade: A solid game released in 1991, but by 1993 it had already released all its best material (Chicago By Night, Ashes to Ashes, Milwaukee by Night, Mummy, Hunters Hunted) and were already releasing loads of useless junk such as the clanbooks, and worse.

Runequest: I don't know it as well as the ones above, but from my understanding, the good editions were the Chaosium ones, up to 1984, then they had huge trouble in 94 with Avalon's editions and pretty much died for several years.

Cyberpunk: golden years are 1990-1994, pretty much collapsed after that. Like everyone else.

Shadowrun: another one I don't know that well, but this one might be the best case for the 90s, since it's where the most popular editions were released.

Call of Cthuluh: Chaosium released its best editions through the 80s, and all its incredible supplements as well, with the exception of Horror on the Orient Express in 91.

I am probably forgetting many others I played, but I think I made my point.

The 80s took a hobby in its infancy, and turned it into a multitude of complex and rich games/settings for us to enjoy. Creativity was off the charts. And not just the books, just look at the magazines, to see how alive RPGs were. It was an age of wonders.

The 90s found gaming in its peak, and at first did well, but quickly began declining in quality and originality, and by the end of the decade it was almost dead as an industry. Wizards of the Coast took the pieces.

 

[Kev Inkline]

The 1990s was the best decade for a RPG gamer to enjoy the hobby, because you could enjoy all the incredible stuff released in the 80s, and add a few cool things from the early 90s. But while the 80s was an explosion in creativity with dozens of amazing games, very different rulesets and rich, original settings, the 90s is the decade where everything went to shit and most games died.

One thing I don't get though, is that why wouldn't be this be the case anymore? I mean, i have the same group of 5 guys whom I've played with since early 1990s, we still use the same editions of CoC, CP2020, and RQ (well, some like to try newer mechanics for RQ at times, but in any case, that's just mechanics, not the world itself), and while we meet only a couple of times a year anymore, and shittalk a lot during the sessions, it's still as enjoyable as ever.

Why would you care if there's newer editions laden with agenda?

 

[Maxie]

The 1990s was the best decade for a RPG gamer to enjoy the hobby, because you could enjoy all the incredible stuff released in the 80s, and add a few cool things from the early 90s. But while the 80s was an explosion in creativity with dozens of amazing games, very different rulesets and rich, original settings, the 90s is the decade where everything went to shit and most games died.

One thing I don't get though, is that why wouldn't be this be the case anymore? I mean, i have the same group of 5 guys whom I've played with since early 1990s, we still use the same editions of CoC, CP2020, and RQ (well, some like to try newer mechanics for RQ at times, but in any case, that's just mechanics, not the world itself), and while we meet only a couple of times a year anymore, and shittalk a lot during the sessions, it's still as enjoyable as ever.

Why would you care if there's newer editions laden with agenda?

because we young bucks happen not to be 80yo like your too cool for school crew and there's a difference in resources availability

 

[Kev Inkline]

Well, then he ought to have written: The 1990s was the best decade for a person to start with the RPGs.

Every single one of the old editions is digitally available, btw.

I've started to think you're probably the world's oldest child progeny.

 

[DavidBVal]

The 1990s was the best decade for a RPG gamer to enjoy the hobby, because you could enjoy all the incredible stuff released in the 80s, and add a few cool things from the early 90s. But while the 80s was an explosion in creativity with dozens of amazing games, very different rulesets and rich, original settings, the 90s is the decade where everything went to shit and most games died.

One thing I don't get though, is that why wouldn't be this be the case anymore? I mean, i have the same group of 5 guys whom I've played with since early 1990s, we still use the same editions of CoC, CP2020, and RQ (well, some like to try newer mechanics for RQ at times, but in any case, that's just mechanics, not the world itself), and while we meet only a couple of times a year anymore, and shittalk a lot during the sessions, it's still as enjoyable as ever.

Why would you care if there's newer editions laden with agenda?

In the late 80s/early 90s we enjoyed things that still exist today and can be played, that is true. But they were brand new, they were constantly evolving, exciting stuff was always around the corner and we were talking endlessly about new games, improved new editions (lo and behold! they were actually better than previous ones, and not merely "easier to understand" or "better balanced"!), or adventures by our favorite authors such as Carl Sargent or Phil Gallager, sharing magazine articles, gasping at unboxing Horror on the Orient Express campaign... that was half the fun of the hobby, and it is gone.

We oldfags still have our dusty books and enjoy our small doses of fun on alternate saturdays, and some younger people can be curious and try newer editions or even older stuff, but this is no longer a hobby capable of enticing new generations, or bearing a cultural impact. Being a 14yo kid in 1989, I am pretty sure the hobby back then was more rewarding and inspiring than tabletop gaming is for a 14yo kid today.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I feel similarly about the 2000s, actually. I was introduced to d20 Modern and its numerous settings in Polyhedron magazine, as well as the 2004 reboot of World of Darkness which created a new universe full of mystery, etc. There was Alternity, Unisystem, Fuzion, Risus, etc. It was a burst of creativity in a medium struggling against video games. All that creativity is gone now. Alternity isn’t even sold legally as pdf.

Modern publishers are trying desperately to relive the highs of the 80s and early 90s by repackaging the exact same stuff from back then without understanding what made it interesting then or how the market has changed. They refuse to grow or change or do new things, so it’s creatively dead.

 

[That_Scumbag]

The 1990s was the best decade for a RPG gamer to enjoy the hobby, because you could enjoy all the incredible stuff released in the 80s, and add a few cool things from the early 90s. But while the 80s was an explosion in creativity with dozens of amazing games, very different rulesets and rich, original settings, the 90s is the decade where everything went to shit and most games died.

One thing I don't get though, is that why wouldn't be this be the case anymore? I mean, i have the same group of 5 guys whom I've played with since early 1990s, we still use the same editions of CoC, CP2020, and RQ (well, some like to try newer mechanics for RQ at times, but in any case, that's just mechanics, not the world itself), and while we meet only a couple of times a year anymore, and shittalk a lot during the sessions, it's still as enjoyable as ever.

Why would you care if there's newer editions laden with agenda?

Because as someone mentioned earlier, it's not just the media. It's also the people around them. It is much harder to find new blood that can appreciatte the hobby as it was. Also, there are active efforts to smear and erase the older media, but that's a whole other can of shit.

 

[Silva]

this is the best year in gaming because u can play old shit and new shit
this applies to every new year

That's true, and what I talk to my tabletop RPG group that keeps whining that we're living in the worst era for RPGs. Where I say "WTF are you talking, we can get games from all eras - from Mentzer D&D to CP2020 to Blades in the Dark, all in crispy pdf forms - and start playing right now! It's the greatest era for tabletop gaming".

Notice though, that doesn't exclude us from comparing the creative output of each era. Which indeed shows the superiority of the late 80s/90s.

 

[KeAShizuku]

this is the best year in gaming because u can play old shit and new shit
this applies to every new year

That's true, and what I talk to my tabletop RPG group that keeps whining that we're living in the worst era for RPGs. Where I say "WTF are you talking, we can get games from all eras - from Mentzer D&D to CP2020 to Blades in the Dark, all in crispy pdf forms - and start playing right now! It's the greatest era for tabletop gaming".

Notice though, that doesn't exclude us from comparing the creative output of each era. Which indeed shows the superiority of the late 80s/90s.

This. I lived in a small provincial town. Before the internet there was fucking nothing.
Only normalfag stuff was sold in stores.

 

[That_Scumbag]

I feel similarly about the 2000s, actually. I was introduced to d20 Modern and its numerous settings in Polyhedron magazine, as well as the 2004 reboot of World of Darkness which created a new universe full of mystery, etc. There was Alternity, Unisystem, Fuzion, Risus, etc. It was a burst of creativity in a medium struggling against video games. All that creativity is gone now. Alternity isn’t even sold legally as pdf.

Modern publishers are trying desperately to relive the highs of the 80s and early 90s by repackaging the exact same stuff from back then without understanding what made it interesting then or how the market has changed. They refuse to grow or change or do new things, so it’s creatively dead.

I think the early 2000s was the best of all worlds because we had access to most things thanks to the internet but without everything being so interconnected and ruined by mainstream BS and woke trash.

 

[DavidBVal]

I feel similarly about the 2000s, actually. I was introduced to d20 Modern and its numerous settings in Polyhedron magazine, as well as the 2004 reboot of World of Darkness which created a new universe full of mystery, etc. There was Alternity, Unisystem, Fuzion, Risus, etc. It was a burst of creativity in a medium struggling against video games. All that creativity is gone now. Alternity isn’t even sold legally as pdf.

Modern publishers are trying desperately to relive the highs of the 80s and early 90s by repackaging the exact same stuff from back then without understanding what made it interesting then or how the market has changed. They refuse to grow or change or do new things, so it’s creatively dead.

I think the early 2000s was the best of all worlds because we had access to most things thanks to the internet but without everything being so interconnected and ruined by mainstream BS and woke trash.

In the early 2000s you didn't have digital access to all the old stuff. If you're not going to live the Golden Age itself, I'd say just go for broke and pick 2025, ignoring what you don't like.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

In the early 2000s you didn't have digital access to all the old stuff.

RPGNow launched in 2001, Drivethrurpg in 2004.

 

[DavidBVal]

In the early 2000s you didn't have digital access to all the old stuff.

RPGNow launched in 2001, Drivethrurpg in 2004.

In those years they really didn't have even a small fraction of what was added later. Just checked a few of the things I got from Drivethrough (Rules Cyclopedia, and Gazeteers). "Added to Catalog" around 2014. WFRP first edition, 2017.

 

[Kev Inkline]

We oldfags still have our dusty books and enjoy our small doses of fun on alternate saturdays, and some younger people can be curious and try newer editions or even older stuff, but this is no longer a hobby capable of enticing new generations, or bearing a cultural impact. Being a 14yo kid in 1989, I am pretty sure the hobby back then was more rewarding and inspiring than tabletop gaming is for a 14yo kid today.

I'd be inclined to say it's the substitute forms of media consumption, all the digital media is so easily accessed. My older son is of that age, and I don't think anyone in his sphere of friends have played or is even but only remotely aware of ttrpgs.

Well, maybe except for one guy, but he is also suspiciously interested in the WW2 German history.

I am not going to push it on my boy, but maybe I'll try to get him interested in a session of Frosthaven or something.

 

[tritosine2k]

Yes.