Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Average Manatee]

You can give Adalon's eggs to the demon in the Drow city in exchange for a powerful halberd, and use her blood to upgrade the human skin armor. Can't think of any other great rewards for evil characters other than the potential hell trial bonuses.

 

[Humbaba]

Roleplaying evil in BG1 is almost a none option at least in the early game because those Flaming Fisters are no joke and come at you with wizards. BG1 also only has 2 worthwhile evil companions, namely Edwin and Viconia.

BG2 is a lot better in that respect, where the evil companions are the best in the game respective to their class and function.

 

[Sykar]

Depends a little. Anomen who passes his test is close to Viconia as a Cleric, he lacks the magic resistance but he is much tougher base line and a decent melee fighter. Keldorn might be the overall strongest character if you take him with you since he is the only companion who can wield Karsomyr without HLA shenaningangs on top of having arguably the strongest kit in an unmodded game. Aerie might be the overall strongest magic user but needs a while to get up there but once you can mix and mesh arcane triggers with divine buffs you can pull some fun stuff off.
Imoen is a well optimized thief/wizard who can fulfill both roles at a high level. Thanks to wizard and invisibility spells she can get plenty backstabs in.

 

[Average Manatee]

Wisdom is really pretty weak for clerics once you're in BG2, see: https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Wisdom

Viconia gets 2 level 1/2 spells and 1 level 3/4 spell. A level 15 cleric has 6/6/6/6 of those levels as a baseline, you probably don't care about more low-level spell slots. So I wouldn't worry about Anomen's slots vs. Viconia, they are both effectively just as good clerics.

Aerie's problem is that multiclasses don't get mage HLAs and level 9 spells until 6M XP instead of 3M XP, which is mid to late ToB compared to mid to late BG2. And unlike pure clerics she actually does fall significantly behind Anomen or Viconia in cleric spell progression. Characters like Imoen or Nalia on the other hand are basically ideal, they get most of what you wanted out of thief levels but still puts all their useful XP into mage and get mage HLAs at 3M XP. Still not as great as Edwin, but you have to have a thief in your party. For the record Edwin will cap out at 8 level 9 mage spell slots while Aerie has 3.

Disagree that Keldorn is the strongest fighter since the ideal weapon setup is dual wielding for more attacks and having grandmastery in your chosen weapon. Anomen and Korgan take that crown (I guess you can throw in all pure fighters but the others have bad proficiencies). Obviously dispelling is great, though it's not TOO essential in a non-SCS game.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Aerie might be the overall strongest magic user but needs a while to get up there but once you can mix and mesh arcane triggers with divine buffs you can pull some fun stuff off.

Some good points, but if you take Aerie, you have to listen to Aerie. Best to just commit ogre genocide early and often.

 

[aloeh]

Thanks for the info guys.

And about reputation, how I work around it? I'm thinking keep Imoen because of the thief skills.

 

[Nano]

You have to force your way to be evil. Bioware has historically punished evil aligned players.

Except for Dragon Age Origins. That's another reason Origins is better than BG.

Edit: actually, KOTOR is another game where playing evil is more rewarding.

 

[Cael]

You have to force your way to be evil. Bioware has historically punished evil aligned players.

Except for Dragon Age Origins. That's another reason Origins is better than BG.

Edit: actually, KOTOR is another game where playing evil is more rewarding.

Is Evil more rewarding in DAO? I never felt that. Going down the Evil path basically ends up with you losing half the NPCs?

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

For good "evil" content, in BG1 use the BG1 NPC Project and recruit Monty&Xzar, and in BG2 recruit Korgan and Anomen, and then turn Anomen to the dark side.
Aside from that, there's not much fun for evildoers.

I take it you didn't make armor from human skin and the blood of a silver dragon, or use the soul of an innocent woman to make a magic item then?

And then there's the triple betrayal in the drow city, where you can get a magic item from the demon or have it attack the drow city for you while you casually walk out and then go to murder the silver dragon for her blood.

You can give Adalon's eggs to the demon in the Drow city in exchange for a powerful halberd, and use her blood to upgrade the human skin armor. Can't think of any other great rewards for evil characters other than the potential hell trial bonuses.

The Hell trial bonuses, using the slayer form, hiring slave hookers instead of freeing them, using the Bhaal essence at the end to become a god. There were other evil acts, but a lot of them didn't provide much benefit to the player. Bodhi's route made you lose out on some powerful items in the original version of the game iirc. They gave no real advantage to siding with her, since the thieves lowered their price to match hers immediately.

Acting evil in BG1 is worth it because that one harper in Baldur's Gate attacks you, leading to one of the best journal entries in the game: "Beset by a harper today. Made short work of him."

 

[Nano]

Is Evil more rewarding in DAO? I never felt that. Going down the Evil path basically ends up with you losing half the NPCs?

Only one, Wynne, but it's not actually a loss because Morrigan is evil herself and you only need one mage. Shale and Leliana can also leave but it's avoidable in both cases.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

"Evil" in DAO is more in line with Mass Effect's Renegade path than an actual Chaotic Evil mindset imo.

Thanks for the info guys.

And about reputation, how I work around it? I'm thinking keep Imoen because of the thief skills.

You can't. You can go with Montaron or Safana for Neutral/Evil thieves, if you're playing 1. Reputation makes alignment a strawman and a half, and a lot of the best rewards for a lot of quests lead to increasing your reputation, which makes evil characters leave your party.

 

[Melcar]

That's why you go murder people after you do some good deed.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

That's why you go murder people after you do some good deed.

Just like in real life?

 

[Gromoer]

Her 'perk' is her free MR but its inconsistent protection and generally if enemy mages are casting dangerous spells its probably something AoE that is going to fuck your whole party anyway.

Viconia can suck in a shitload of nastiest spells with no added costs. I’ve been using her to tank mages who otherwise instakilled half of my party on sight. But yeah, not worth it overall, unless you are into romance thing.

 

[Sykar]

Wisdom is really pretty weak for clerics once you're in BG2, see: https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Wisdom

Viconia gets 2 level 1/2 spells and 1 level 3/4 spell. A level 15 cleric has 6/6/6/6 of those levels as a baseline, you probably don't care about more low-level spell slots. So I wouldn't worry about Anomen's slots vs. Viconia, they are both effectively just as good clerics.

Aerie's problem is that multiclasses don't get mage HLAs and level 9 spells until 6M XP instead of 3M XP, which is mid to late ToB compared to mid to late BG2. And unlike pure clerics she actually does fall significantly behind Anomen or Viconia in cleric spell progression. Characters like Imoen or Nalia on the other hand are basically ideal, they get most of what you wanted out of thief levels but still puts all their useful XP into mage and get mage HLAs at 3M XP. Still not as great as Edwin, but you have to have a thief in your party. For the record Edwin will cap out at 8 level 9 mage spell slots while Aerie has 3.

Disagree that Keldorn is the strongest fighter since the ideal weapon setup is dual wielding for more attacks and having grandmastery in your chosen weapon. Anomen and Korgan take that crown (I guess you can throw in all pure fighters but the others have bad proficiencies). Obviously dispelling is great, though it's not TOO essential in a non-SCS game.

It is not just dispelling. It is dispelling at twice your level with a speed factor of 1. Also True Sight and Karsomyr is one of the most powerful weapons in the game which also grants 50% magic resistance. Remember that it deals +5/+6 extra damage to chaotic evil of which there are many in the game. When HLAs come into play with Greater Whirlwind attack things get more close. Immunity to paralyze and hold spells is also golden those two are some of the worst CC spells/abilities in the game since they grant auto hit.
As to Viconia's extra slots, those improve once you give her a wisdom Ioun stone. I would also not call those lower level slots irrelevant, those levels have some good spells especially short living buff spells like DUHM which gets incredibly powerful at high levels. Though I guess I might be one of the exceptions who only allows himself one rest per day so my view on extra slots might be a but skewed due to that self imposed restriction. Her MR is a huge advantage against enemy casters. With the right setup, you can effectively make her immune to magic and ranged attacks, something Anomen does not get. There is the conversation which Turn Undead version is stronger. Anomen chunks while Viconia controls. Chunking undead is certainly more convenient in terms of quickly dispatching enemies but having a small army of undead around to sick as fodder on your enemies has its perks too.
It is true that you have to wait long for level 9 spells and HLAs but wizards get already incredibly powerful with level 6 and 7 spells which you can get in SoA in a reasonable time. Those are also the most powerful cleric spells in the game apart from HLAs. Remember that you get the best self buffs from both Clerics and Wizards on her. Clerics with access to invisibility, mirror image, shield, etc are nothing to scoff at.

 

[NecroLord]

As an aside, I can never make myself play as a Dark Side character in Kotor 1(and 2 to some extent).
Being such a douchebag to your companions and others is just plain wrong.
Kotor 2 is a game that definitely does evil and villainy right. I remember playing a tyrannical Sith Marauder build(a goddamn killing machine, one of the best classes in the game) and enjoying great success.

Back to Baldur's Gate:
Honestly, from a lore stand-point, I think it would be more accurate if "PC name" was a really evil fuck. You are a Bhaalspawn and have to deal with your dark heritage and its effect on your soul...
Even so, goodness requires sacrifice and discipline, no?
I think there is a nice dialogue between Keldorn and "PC name" in Throne of Bhaal, where he basically says that he will support you and help keep you on the right path no matter what. You know, like a true friend and Paladin.

 

[Ryzer]

I ended up evil in Kotor 1 without wanting to because I always picked the option to get better reward and the game considers this to be evil.
Some NPCs deserved to get spanked though.
Imo, I find the evil route to be the best in Kotor.

In Baldur's gate, it's not rewarding to be evil unlike Kotor although Edwin is a must have.

 

[Nano]

Acting evil in BG1 is worth it because that one harper in Baldur's Gate attacks you, leading to one of the best journal entries in the game: "Beset by a harper today. Made short work of him."

Wait, I remember this. This was probably my favorite part of my evil BG1 run. Not because of that journal entry, but because of how you can convince him not to fight you by making him believe he'd be evil for doing it or some shit. Would like to see more of that type of content in RPGs.

 

[Taim]

Roleplaying evil in BG1 is almost a none option at least in the early game because those Flaming Fisters are no joke and come at you with wizards. BG1 also only has 2 worthwhile evil companions, namely Edwin and Viconia.

BG2 is a lot better in that respect, where the evil companions are the best in the game respective to their class and function.

You forgot Kagain - who is the best tank in the entire trilogy with his illegal 20 con score.
And Montaron, who is also the best Thief in the game by far.

I'd say it's pretty similar across both games that the best characters tend to be evil.

 

[Krivol]

I'd say it's pretty similar across both games that the best characters tend to be evil.

This. Every evil NPC is just great, while good ones have some problems and we are talking about both games.

 

[Average Manatee]

You forgot Kagain - who is the best tank in the entire trilogy with his illegal 20 con score.

The breakpoints for CON are 19 and 21 so he doesn't actually get more HP from that. Korgan technically has more for his level considering he can berserk as well.

And Montaron, who is also the best Thief in the game by far.

Disagree, that's definitely Coran. Cheated 20 dex AND 3 pips in longbow (illegal for multis) AND elf for +1 to hit with bows. Same breakpoint issue where 20 dex doesn't actually make him better than 19 in combat, but it is a substantial boost to thieving skills. He's got close to +60 thief skill points compared to a baseline thief with 18 dex.

I'd say it's pretty similar across both games that the best characters tend to be evil.

This. Every evil NPC is just great, while good ones have some problems and we are talking about both games.

Disagree, pretty much all the NPCs are quite viable. Well, excluding some BG1 ones. Pure class bards and thieves are generally kind of shit.

 

[Sodafish]

Korgan technically has more for his level considering he can berserk as well.

Also has some of the best lines in the games.

 

[Cael]

You forgot Kagain - who is the best tank in the entire trilogy with his illegal 20 con score.

The breakpoints for CON are 19 and 21 so he doesn't actually get more HP from that. Korgan technically has more for his level considering he can berserk as well.

And Montaron, who is also the best Thief in the game by far.

Disagree, that's definitely Coran. Cheated 20 dex AND 3 pips in longbow (illegal for multis) AND elf for +1 to hit with bows. Same breakpoint issue where 20 dex doesn't actually make him better than 19 in combat, but it is a substantial boost to thieving skills. He's got close to +60 thief skill points compared to a baseline thief with 18 dex.

I'd say it's pretty similar across both games that the best characters tend to be evil.

This. Every evil NPC is just great, while good ones have some problems and we are talking about both games.

Disagree, pretty much all the NPCs are quite viable. Well, excluding some BG1 ones. Pure class bards and thieves are generally kind of shit.

20 Con is when you start getting natural regeneration.

 

[NecroLord]

You forgot Kagain - who is the best tank in the entire trilogy with his illegal 20 con score.

The breakpoints for CON are 19 and 21 so he doesn't actually get more HP from that. Korgan technically has more for his level considering he can berserk as well.

And Montaron, who is also the best Thief in the game by far.

Disagree, that's definitely Coran. Cheated 20 dex AND 3 pips in longbow (illegal for multis) AND elf for +1 to hit with bows. Same breakpoint issue where 20 dex doesn't actually make him better than 19 in combat, but it is a substantial boost to thieving skills. He's got close to +60 thief skill points compared to a baseline thief with 18 dex.

I'd say it's pretty similar across both games that the best characters tend to be evil.

This. Every evil NPC is just great, while good ones have some problems and we are talking about both games.

Disagree, pretty much all the NPCs are quite viable. Well, excluding some BG1 ones. Pure class bards and thieves are generally kind of shit.

20 Con is when you start getting natural regeneration.

Indeed.
Unfortunately it is pretty slow. However, being able to heal all your wounds when resting is great.

 

[Cael]

You forgot Kagain - who is the best tank in the entire trilogy with his illegal 20 con score.

The breakpoints for CON are 19 and 21 so he doesn't actually get more HP from that. Korgan technically has more for his level considering he can berserk as well.

And Montaron, who is also the best Thief in the game by far.

Disagree, that's definitely Coran. Cheated 20 dex AND 3 pips in longbow (illegal for multis) AND elf for +1 to hit with bows. Same breakpoint issue where 20 dex doesn't actually make him better than 19 in combat, but it is a substantial boost to thieving skills. He's got close to +60 thief skill points compared to a baseline thief with 18 dex.

I'd say it's pretty similar across both games that the best characters tend to be evil.

This. Every evil NPC is just great, while good ones have some problems and we are talking about both games.

Disagree, pretty much all the NPCs are quite viable. Well, excluding some BG1 ones. Pure class bards and thieves are generally kind of shit.

20 Con is when you start getting natural regeneration.

Indeed.
Unfortunately it is pretty slow. However, being able to heal all your wounds when resting is great.

Travelling between maps.