Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale IV Pre-Release Thread [RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[DalekFlay]

- Don't fuck the physical rewards' management and shipping this time (and deliver an old-school sized cardboard box and a "true" cloth map instead of metal/wide&slim box and a synthetic-looking map).

I would advise the opposite, ignore the physical rewards which cost a ton of money and make one simple disc version for an insanely high pledge cost to milk the weirdos and then get on with your life.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Yeah, good advice, so nobody would get it.

 

[DalekFlay]

Yeah, good advice, so nobody would get it.

Really insane, anal collectors would pay out the ass for it and everyone rational would just get the digital version. inXile can make a relatively cheap DVD box version for the idiots but otherwise keep all the pledge cash for development. Works out best for everyone.

 

[Infinitron]

I support making the physical editions very expensive, but wanting them to not give people their money's worth is just being mean-spirited.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I'm one of those idiots and I'm telling you I wouldn't pay for a DVD box anywhere close to what I'd pay for an actual box.

You don't seem to get how it works:
Profit from $100 box pledge > profit from a $20 digital pledge

There's no cash to keep for development if no-one gives it.

They're not manufacturing the boxes with money from the "rational" people. That would be rather irrational.

 

[eric__s]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/10/wasteland-2-developer-trademarks-two-classic-rpgs

UPDATE: "I truly feel fortunate that with crowdfunding and the great response to Wasteland 2 I can actually start to plot out a long RPG future for us," Brian Fargo, CEO of inXile Entertainment, told IGN. "I think it's important to remember that some of these ideas are, at best, many years away. While they are not a part of what's up next, I certainly would not have filed for them if I didn't have a deep interest in exploring these concepts."

Chances of Bard's Tale IV rising again.

Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space 2 confirmed.

 

[Athelas]

What does one box matter?

 

[Tzaero]

Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space 2 confirmed.

Where did Buzz Aldrin touch you as a kid?

 

[DalekFlay]

I'm one of those idiots and I'm telling you I wouldn't pay for a DVD box anywhere close to what I'd pay for an actual box.

You don't seem to get how it works:
Profit from $100 box pledge > profit from a $20 digital pledge

There's no cash to keep for development if no-one gives it.

They're not manufacturing the boxes with money from the "rational" people. That would be rather irrational.

I read interviews about how the physical costs eat up 90% of that extra pledge money. Maybe they've smoothed things out since then, don't know, but acting on those statements I would make the physical product as cheap to produce as possible and then way overcharge for it, to ensure you still get most of the money for development. I think that's a common sense compromise so the actual important thing (making the game) gets the money, but people who can't let go of boxes can get a box if they want it bad enough.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I'm sure that if they don't know what they're doing they can fuck it up.
I don't know if you mean 90% of what was pledged for that reward or 90% from other pledges, but regardless, then they're doing something wrong.

Problem with overcharging for cheap shit is that it doesn't work in this case. These are for collectors. If they asked $100 for a DVD box with just a disc in it I'd just go "lol no" and likely just pledge for the minimum amount that gets the game.

Btw, $100 for an actual box is already overcharging and I'm aware of it, but it's something I want so I will pay for it. So the thing is making the stuff people actually want and at a price they're willing to pay for it. You know, like a business.

 

[eric__s]

Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space 2 confirmed.

Where did Buzz Aldrin touch you as a kid?

My heart.

 

[Athelas]

I'm sure that if they don't know what they're doing they can fuck it up.
I don't know if you mean 90% of what was pledged for that reward or 90% from other pledges, but regardless, then they're doing something wrong.

Problem with overcharging for cheap shit is that it doesn't work in this case. These are for collectors. If they asked $100 for a DVD box with just a disc in it I'd just go "lol no" and likely just pledge for the minimum amount that gets the game.

Btw, $100 for an actual box is already overcharging and I'm aware of it, but it's something I want so I will pay for it. So the thing is making the stuff people actually want and at a price they're willing to pay for it. You know, like a business.

I don't see how this helps your argument since you admit you're paying for something intangible. Plenty of people might be willing to shell out big bucks for a shitty box.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Yeah, well, if the collector's mindset is anything like mine then they wouldn't. And my argument is that collectors buy these things.
But sure, they can try or do polls or whatever to test the market.

 

[Athelas]

I think it's safe to say you're quite unique.

 

[DalekFlay]

I'm sure that if they don't know what they're doing they can fuck it up.
I don't know if you mean 90% of what was pledged for that reward or 90% from other pledges, but regardless, then they're doing something wrong.

Problem with overcharging for cheap shit is that it doesn't work in this case. These are for collectors. If they asked $100 for a DVD box with just a disc in it I'd just go "lol no" and likely just pledge for the minimum amount that gets the game.

Btw, $100 for an actual box is already overcharging and I'm aware of it, but it's something I want so I will pay for it. So the thing is making the stuff people actually want and at a price they're willing to pay for it. You know, like a business.

My experience with collectors tells me all you'd have to do is put some shiny cardboard on it and call it limited and people would buy the fuck out of it for extremely high prices, but of course it depends on the person. In the end my point is don't bother with physical crap if you end up spending all the extra pledge money on making that physical crap. Then you're not getting anything extra from these $100 pledges, you're just going through a lot of work for nothing. That's what I read they were doing in interviews and the like, so I'm telling them to stop it. Those people will buy the digital version if it's their only option, and you're wasting time and making little-to-no money.

Now if they can figure out a way to get a high percentage of that extra money from people like yourself and have it go toward actual game development, THAT they should do. The most obvious way off the top of my head would be to massively overcharge for a simple, yet "limited," box of shiny cardboard.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I think this debate keeps coming up because of the experience of a few early kickstarters, who had no real clue as to how much things would cost to produce and then later wrote postmortems where they moaned about losing money on the physical tiers. Obviously it doesn't have to be this way, with a bit of business sense and some price quotes in advance. And charge extra for postage or take it into account FFS. If your $100 tier costs $80 to produce and you're unhappy with $20 towards the game from that tier, then charge $110 and you'll probably sell a similar number of packages - still more contribution from that pledge than a $20 digital tier.

But collectors have a wide range of budgets and interests, hence why most kickstarters offer a basic physical box and then more expensive ones with signed copies, figurines, dice etc. This way you get the maximum possible out of each category of collector. If you just take the approach of "cheap dvd box at an insanely high pledge" then you may sell a few to those with deep pockets, but you're not getting anything from collectors with less money or those interested in stuff like figurines, artwork or whatever. Perhaps they'll just get a cheap digital tier or won't pledge at all. Overall, less money towards the game.

tl;dr: Yes, some devs fucked up with physical tiers before, doesn't mean it always has to be this way. Just set the prices at an appropriate level (and decide if your campaign is big enough to make it worthwhile - no point in arranging all this for a handful of people).

 

[Infinitron]

This whole debate isn't actually relevant to top tier Kickstarters who can secure a distribution deal with a publisher who will print their boxes for them at no cost to the developer.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I think it's safe to say you're quite unique.

Bro, I know you're greatly offended that I don't love Obsidian as much as I love inXile, but try to make it less obvious, huh? Try to make some sense?

But collectors have a wide range of budgets and interests, hence why most kickstarters offer a basic physical box and then more expensive ones with signed copies, figurines, dice etc. This way you get the maximum possible out of each category of collector. If you just take the approach of "cheap dvd box at an insanely high pledge" then you may sell a few to those with deep pockets, but you're not getting anything from collectors with less money or those interested in stuff like figurines, artwork or whatever. Perhaps they'll just get a cheap digital tier or won't pledge at all. Overall, less money towards the game or it's just pointless and you just get less money.

Yeah, pretty much this. Expecting to sell the same amount if all you do is "massively overcharge" is kinda absurd. You'd better be sure then that the extra money will cover for the lost sales otherwise it's just pointless and you just get less money.

 

[Athelas]

Just like the greed of publishers destroyed the development of cRPG's, the greed of boxfags will destroy the cRPG renaissance.

History always repeats itself.

 

[Darkzone]

I think that on this level the considerations about pricing of box set and etc is not very fruitful and can be very deceiving. While economics is quite simple, so simple it is not like most people think, especially not for the people who did make a kickstarter and ended paying up to much for the boxes. A smart person who knows some economics makes money on everything and on each step. And a too high price for a CE edition may result in less monetary win, than a lower price, because the number of sold units can be lower. So i don't think that inXile or Obsidian will write red numbers on the boxes, like many of the economic fools.

 

[Cazzeris]

- Don't fuck the physical rewards' management and shipping this time (and deliver an old-school sized cardboard box and a "true" cloth map instead of metal/wide&slim box and a synthetic-looking map).

I would advise the opposite, ignore the physical rewards which cost a ton of money and make one simple disc version for an insanely high pledge cost to milk the weirdos and then get on with your life.

Well, I'm one of those weirdos and I won't back inXile's next KS project unless they add a physical reward tier including a sweet big box, a manual, a map and some other goodies. There's no way they're going to grab my money offering a shitty download in exchange. Big contributors deserve big rewards.

PS: Behead those who insult the long dead art of old-school cardboard boxes.

 

[DalekFlay]

I think this debate keeps coming up because of the experience of a few early kickstarters, who had no real clue as to how much things would cost to produce and then later wrote postmortems where they moaned about losing money on the physical tiers. Obviously it doesn't have to be this way, with a bit of business sense and some price quotes in advance. And charge extra for postage or take it into account FFS. If your $100 tier costs $80 to produce and you're unhappy with $20 towards the game from that tier, then charge $110 and you'll probably sell a similar number of packages - still more contribution from that pledge than a $20 digital tier.

But collectors have a wide range of budgets and interests, hence why most kickstarters offer a basic physical box and then more expensive ones with signed copies, figurines, dice etc. This way you get the maximum possible out of each category of collector. If you just take the approach of "cheap dvd box at an insanely high pledge" then you may sell a few to those with deep pockets, but you're not getting anything from collectors with less money or those interested in stuff like figurines, artwork or whatever. Perhaps they'll just get a cheap digital tier or won't pledge at all. Overall, less money towards the game.

tl;dr: Yes, some devs fucked up with physical tiers before, doesn't mean it always has to be this way. Just set the prices at an appropriate level (and decide if your campaign is big enough to make it worthwhile - no point in arranging all this for a handful of people).

In the end my point is charge enough for the physical shit that you get an expanded profit out of it. If you just break even with the digital tiers (or even lose money, like Double Fine said they did) then what's the point? If someone pledges $150 then damn close to $150 should go into game development. Getting $30 from a $150 pledge is self-defeating, and this is exactly what has happened in previous kickstarters according to comments and interviews. If they can figure out a way to take your $150, send you a box and net $130 from it for development then YAY, DO THAT. That's not the story I have been reading however.

tl;dr Game matters more than cardboard.

 

[Luka-boy]

Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space 2 confirmed.

The remake of the original was released less than two months ago, so Buzz should be free to help with a new game

 

[tuluse]

I would advise the opposite, ignore the physical rewards which cost a ton of money and make one simple disc version for an insanely high pledge cost to milk the weirdos and then get on with your life.

I upped my pledge for WL2, PoE, and T:ToN to get a box. Boxes are pretty. I wouldn't pay an insane price for them, and I wouldn't pay an equal amount for only digital rewards.

I think there are a few thousand people like me judging from the number of backers at each tier.

I also miss all the feelies and the experience of getting a game from people who really cared, and the physical rewards restores that a bit.

Edit:

In the end my point is charge enough for the physical shit that you get an expanded profit out of it. If you just break even with the digital tiers (or even lose money, like Double Fine said they did) then what's the point? If someone pledges $150 then damn close to $150 should go into game development. Getting $30 from a $150 pledge is self-defeating, and this is exactly what has happened in previous kickstarters according to comments and interviews. If they can figure out a way to take your $150, send you a box and net $130 from it for development then YAY, DO THAT. That's not the story I have been reading however.

tl;dr Game matters more than cardboard.

I don't think it was this bad, and it's become clear that DoubleFine is not well run organization. So I would look at other examples.

 

[agris]

This whole debate isn't actually relevant to top tier Kickstarters who can secure a distribution deal with a publisher who will print their boxes for them at no cost to the developer.

That's a surprisingly naive statement from you Infini, the cost is in the contract.