The Codex of Roguelikes

[Damned Registrations]

I dunno, I think Spelunky levels are pretty fun. I think the trick was making them actually dangerous, so shit is tense. Every step could trigger some kind of one shot death you need to avoid at a moment's notice. And rather than having stupid pixel perfect jumps, it generally requires a series of reasonable jumps in quick succession to bypass an obstacle, or some equivalent sort of movement. At the same time, you have frequent pauses to catch your breath in between all the dangerous stuff, which highlights the tricky parts all the more.

Besides, bad platforming would be easy to overlook if there was something to do besides platforming. But all you do in RoR is kite enemies and run towards the next exit, which is just platforming occasionally broken up by turning around to unload attacks when they're off cooldown. Even if you have a jetpack in spelunky and have made platforming obsolete, you still have traps to deal with, secrets to look for, treasure to collect, possibly some mining to do, shops to rob... all sorts of interesting shit.

It's a shame, because I think the characters were well designed in RoR, they have very unique skillsets. They just don't play out differently at all because the rest of the game forces you to kite enemies endlessly. There's no need to defend anything, or chase things, or avoid enemies entirely, or conserve ammo, or use consumables before they fade away, nothing. If you stuck those characters in other platformers they'd probably improve a lot of them.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

http://te4.org/blogs/darkgod/2013/12/news/tales-majeyal-now-officialy-available-steam

Buyers get the same benefits as donors. What are those, you ask?

http://te4.org/donate

What do I get for donating?
All donators get access to a few special features in-game when they are logged in.

• Custom Tiles
  A video being worth a thousands words, check it out there:
  
  Basically this will allow you to choose a custom tile for all your characters, so much more fun! Also donator's characters with custom tiles will show up on the character's vault!
• Custom Tiles and Exploration Mode
  Exploration mode is basically a game mode where you get an infinite number of lives, for those that want to see the story unfold faster.
• Items Vault
  For each 2€ of donations you gain one slot in the online Items Vault. This allows a character to send items to the vault and an other one to grab it from there. This feature can be accessed through the Fortress ingame.
• Stone Warden class
  Donators get to enjoy a special class: Stone Wardens. Only dwarves can be Stone Wardens, they are a melee class that dual wields shields and is both proficient in arcane and nature. While most of the world thinks those two forces are opposite, the dwarves have found a way to merge them.

Not sure if the benefits are worth it, but if you're interested it's roughly five bux on Steam.

 

[SCO]

of course the benefits aren't worth it, especially if you're not a moron and can edit code, since you can then enable all of the 'bonuses' except the stupid online highscore.

edit: ahah the guy wrote a online item store, what a jew. Guess it's time for server emulation ...

 

[felipepepe]

I'd rather give this guy $5 than back any Kickstarter. His game is 10x more old-school and hardcore AND FUN than anything so far, and it's done.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Yup, good game. Forgiving but not borderline casual like Dredmor. There is DLC incoming (which you get if you buy now) but if the base game is this cheap I don't think it'll be very expensive.

Oh, and that special class is like the Confused Turtle style from Skyrim!

especially if you're not a moron and can edit code

 

[Stabwound]

So, I guess the game is going full-on commercial over time? I guess that's cool, since it's cheaper and far deeper than most other commercial roguelikes.

Is there any way to get a steam key if you already have donator status?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Is there any way to get a steam key if you already have donator status?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/259680/discussions/1/630799905211648104/

 

[Alchemist]

Yeah ToME steam keys are live on the te4.org site now, if you donated or bought through other vendors. You just have to link your Steam account first - the key becomes available through a link after that.

I got this in a Gamersgate bundle a little while ago - finally got around to playing today and having a great time of it.

 

[Stabwound]

I bought the Gamersgate bundle but it doesn't seem like I got a key for it in the Steam tab. And yeah, I added the Gamersgate key on the te4.org site. I have access to the donator features but no key: is there something special you have to do? Maybe I didn't pay enough for the bundle or something.

 

[Alchemist]

I bought the Gamersgate bundle but it doesn't seem like I got a key for it in the Steam tab. And yeah, I added the Gamersgate key on the te4.org site. I have access to the donator features but no key: is there something special you have to do? Maybe I didn't pay enough for the bundle or something.

Did you link to your Steam account first? (on the Steam tab of te4.org) - I had the same trouble til I did that. Once I linked my account - the tab changed, showing a link to receive the game on Steam.

 

[Stabwound]

Nice, that worked. Thanks.

 

[FuelBlooded]

Do donators get the steamtech DLC? And what's the point of it?

 

[Stabwound]

It looks like the Steamtech DLC is just an in-game window theme, so yeah it's pointless. But not, you don't seem to get it as a donator.

As far as I can tell no one is going to get the actual DLC for free, which seems to be some kind of expansion.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Ah, I see it now.

Steam Launch Edition includes the base game and a free copy of Tales of Maj'Eyal - Steamtech UI DLC. This special offer ends December 19th.

To celebrate the launch of Tales of Maj'Eyal on Steam we provide a new "steamtech" user interface for the game.
It foreshadows the first DLC that will come later about Orcs, Steamtech, guns saws and general maiming!

You get the UI style for free now. The actual DLC from which the UI is from (SteamTech) will come later, and is bought separately.

 

[Damned Registrations]

So I've been playing cataclysm:dda for a while now. And I've really been trying not to spoil myself on anything. But.

Where the fuck are the melee weapons?

I have a fabrication skill of 20, melee and cutting both above 9, and I've searched half a dozen libraries and 3 pawnshops, with nary a broadsword or katana or anything better than a machete. And the machete came off some random dead band of metheads around a bunch of traps.

Is it because I have npcs disabled on worldgen? Do they normally sell the rare shit? Is it just that stupidly rare? Did they get modded out of the game (despite me getting recipes for strapping flamethrowers to them at like 5 skill in mechanics.)

I guess it doesn't matter much since nothing I've enountered so far can hurt me with my current gear, but it feels really silly walking around in power armor killing things with a machete every time I get out of my custom mobile fabrication lab/tank.

 

[Stabwound]

I've been playing ToME4 off and on since it was released, and I'm on another kick lately. It is a pretty fun game, but some of the design decisions are irksome. I do like the concept of the skill system, but it would be better if you could more easily create a custom character with trees from other classes. What is kind of lame is how it turns the combat system into a weird automated macro-hammering game since there are no food/time-restricting mechanics.

autoexplore -> run into enemy -> hammer macros 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 -> hammer rest macro to full health -> repeat with autoexplore

You even unlock the system where you can sell everything your character automatically hoovers up to a magical invisible store at the end of every level. There's no need to even break up the dungeon exploring by returning to towns to sell shit or stock up, because there are no consumables either.

The super-strict linear way the map/story is laid out gets tedious if you play roguelike mode, but the themed dungeons where you can prepare accordingly ahead of time (if you know what to expect) are kinda fun. On the other side, a lot of areas could easily kill you without a hope of surviving if you don't spoil yourself or go through it once already.

Not really the best game but I still find it fun in spurts.

 

[tred]

So I've been playing cataclysm:dda for a while now. And I've really been trying not to spoil myself on anything. But.

Where the fuck are the melee weapons?

I have a fabrication skill of 20, melee and cutting both above 9, and I've searched half a dozen libraries and 3 pawnshops, with nary a broadsword or katana or anything better than a machete. And the machete came off some random dead band of metheads around a bunch of traps.

Is it because I have npcs disabled on worldgen? Do they normally sell the rare shit? Is it just that stupidly rare? Did they get modded out of the game (despite me getting recipes for strapping flamethrowers to them at like 5 skill in mechanics.)

I guess it doesn't matter much since nothing I've enountered so far can hurt me with my current gear, but it feels really silly walking around in power armor killing things with a machete every time I get out of my custom mobile fabrication lab/tank.

I guess you just had bad luck with the RNG. I've been playing it and easily found melee weapons at mansions (usually at the entrance) and pawnshops.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I eventually found a katana on a corpse in the middle of nowhere, same as I did with the machete. Go figure.

 

[getter77]

I've been playing ToME4 off and on since it was released, and I'm on another kick lately. It is a pretty fun game, but some of the design decisions are irksome. I do like the concept of the skill system, but it would be better if you could more easily create a custom character with trees from other classes. What is kind of lame is how it turns the combat system into a weird automated macro-hammering game since there are no food/time-restricting mechanics.

autoexplore -> run into enemy -> hammer macros 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 -> hammer rest macro to full health -> repeat with autoexplore

You even unlock the system where you can sell everything your character automatically hoovers up to a magical invisible store at the end of every level. There's no need to even break up the dungeon exploring by returning to towns to sell shit or stock up, because there are no consumables either.

The super-strict linear way the map/story is laid out gets tedious if you play roguelike mode, but the themed dungeons where you can prepare accordingly ahead of time (if you know what to expect) are kinda fun. On the other side, a lot of areas could easily kill you without a hope of surviving if you don't spoil yourself or go through it once already.

Not really the best game but I still find it fun in spurts.

All of this is better understood through the prism of, since the early days before the de-Tolkienization while the T-4 Engine was just started, that the game was overtly and expressly designed and influenced strongly by Dragon Age Origins.

 

[Renegen]

There is a custom character with all skill trees in TOME4 but you must finish the game first to unlock it. I suggest sticking to 1 class if you want to make some progress, the way you get farther in this game is by fixing the problems inherent with each class. For some it may be weapons, others resistances, others low life while other classes just faceroll.

 

[Damned Registrations]

So I decided to pick up ADOM again and give the new changes another shot. Rolled a mist elf necromancer, got decent luck with books so far, have 2 books of magic missile, as well as slow (nice in general, but especially as a means of dealing with cats when you don't have any spells yet), bless (great vs undead, not that that's much of a problem for me), and strength of atlas (this spell is stupidly overpowered.) I've managed to find some herbs and an altar in the UD. Of course, stoma doesn't sac worth anything now, so all the altar is good for is finding curses really. Yipee. And herbs are pretty underwhelming now as well; though it's still nice to have some food and poison/sickness/hp cures, especially on a character with fuck all for hp. Oh, and I got a book of improved fireball already. The white ncromancy stuff is... meh. I guess it's cool in terms of not fucking your alignment over, but ghuls are pretty nice compared to clay golems. I mean, the golems are durable, but they're a limited resource (you need to find these stupid clay chunks, and I've only found 1 set so far after clearing the entire UD, including a gnoll vault and a tension room or two) so I can't afford to leave any behind, and if they stop following me (charisma is like 6 or something...) it really sucks. Especially since they cost like 4 fucking mana each, 6 for stone statues.

Mist elves are a lot less powerful than I'd thought, you really get fucked by ranged attacks, everything with a bow or even fucking goblins with thrown rocks can fuck you up very quickly. And I'm sure to die instantly to something retarded like a trapped door or a vortex I can't evade. Also, apparently they can't use silver helmets? Not sure if that is a bug. The half damage from melee thing is fairly irrelevant, since anything in the game that hits hard in melee generally fucks you up in other ways that make melee a bad option anyways. Taking half damage won't matter if you just get stunned/confused/corrupted anyways. And I bet a lot of the good artifacts are fucking iron.

Edit: Welp, that character is dead. Apparently darkforge is a no tele control zone now, so my teleportitis forced me to fight my way out past all the golems at once. Which I probably could have managed anyways, except I was apparently doomed for some reason before I even entered. Usually by then I've got fate smiles from an altar, but without herbs thats pretty much impossible so...

Started up some mist elf duelists. I've revised my opinion back to 'fucking OP race' on the basis that all you need is a potion of exchange and halfway decent luck (like 4 of their 8 stats are fucking amazing) to end up with toughness on par with a fucking troll. Having trouble though since apparently the HMV is a deathtrap now, that always spawns stone giants inside the fucking town and potentially even stone giant lords. Good luck fighting past him as a level 8 melee char. I wish TB would just go ahead and tell you what you're supposed to do to win the game, because he's fucking over methods left and right and replacing them with fuck all. So now all my guys have to do the puppy cave and just hope they don't get utterly fucked by a tension room, trap, or hive in the wrong location. Because god forbid I find some gear that isn't total shit in the UD right? Running around with the exact same items for 3 hours is SO FUN.

 

[Stabwound]

So tl;dr: the game's balance is completely fucked up at the moment?

I haven't played ADOM in a long time, since it was still being updated regularly, but my main tactic was finding stormfiliaiaiai herbs and saccing them until I started getting gifts. You can't do that anymore?

If he's making everything harder and removing "exploits" then it sounds like the game is kind of in a state of limbo where things really need to be balanced before it can be considered complete. I guess this is why they're prerelease versions.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I'm not sure if you can't get any gifts at all; I sacrificed them gradually like I usually do to get an idea of how much I'd need, and after the first batch of stoma he told me to fuck off with herbs. Maybe if you give a large enough amount at once you can get a single precrown/crowning out of it. But I've also heard the amount you get from them was lowered or something? I dunno, I'll be testing it soon hopefully, as soon as I get some method of digging I'll pacify the big room and farm a ton. I plan on using herbs to fix up my stats some more anyways, so I may as well grab stoma while I'm at it and waiting for the herbs to take effect.

But yeah, a lot of 'exploits' have been removed; and very few things have been changed to help the player. Uberjackals aren't as bad now... but summoned monsters also no longer drop loot. I think treasure hunter got nerfed (though it's still worth getting imo, especially for a caster), you can't raid darkforge without killing all the golems now, the ID can't be stairscummed for items any more (enjoy your run as a wizard with nothing but lightning bolt as a spell for 10 levels or some shit) lots of stuff that used to train potential doesn't now, so you need to abuse potions way more. A bunch of bosses are now also immune or resistant to stuff like blind, confusion, darkness, etc.

Generally whenever one of these nerfs go through on the forums the response from all the oldfags is 'well then suggest something to balance it and make things easier' but it's a hell of a lot harder to add in a new system for generating artifacts for an underpowered character than it was to fuck over the value of sacrificing stoma. For that matter, without stoma, it's generally so fucking hard to gain piety that you can't even pool sip any more because you'll probably get doomed and won't be able to make an offering to fix it. It's not like you can just assume you'll find a fucking tension room next to an altar of the appropriate alignment every time you get doomed. And traveling through the wilderness eats up enough time that even if you built up to the right level before hand, moving to and from darkforge will probably lower your piety to 'doesn't do fuck all' levels. I have no idea how I'm going to get an AoLS for Khelly now, I've always hated that part of the game. Like half the fucking dungeons in the game only have a purpose if you save his stupid ass. Why the fuck can't it require something reasonable like a potion instead?

 

[Monstrous Bat]

I think live sacrifices (i.e. hit O when something is standing on your altar) still raises your piety pretty quickly, so if you're doomed you can just find an altar and sac dudes until the dooming is removed.

But yeah, the balance of new ADOM is kind of ridiculous. And getting crowned is even more tedious now than it was. (Running around in the same level doing nothing but saccing dudes for 30 minutes, sheesh!)

 

[Damned Registrations]

I found an altar on a level with a mixed tension room AND an entire gnoll vault. Saccing everything on the level (which took half an hour without having to wait for shit to spawn, that was just luring the fuckers back to the altar) gave me barely enough piety for one precrowning. You might be able to get high enough to remove dooming by waiting for random spawns on a normal level, but crowining? No way. You'd need a big room or something.

Luckily I don't have to worry about it for now. I got extremely lucky and got a wish out of my first sip from a pool in the puppy cave when I went back to milk potions of ultra healing from Jarod (which is proving to be a giant PITA since there weren't any pit traps generated on the same level). Barring some total bullshit, the game is basically set for me now. All I need to do is play it safe. I have 22 toughness and 72 hp right now, 31 will (so confusion isn't too much of a threat) and after I clear the pyramid, I'm going to use the ogre magi from the dwarftown quest to grind my alterness skill to 100 so I won't likely get offed by some stupid double bolt before I can react bullshit. My other stats are all pretty fucking excellent, my last exchange put my dump stats into perception, charisma and appearance. And strength, but that is trained up to 14 at least just from being burdened, and I've gpt like 90k turns of atlas built up by now, so I give no fucks about my strength. Precrowning gave me kinslayer, which is pretty sweet, both as a weapon and for quickly training my sword skill with the auto crits on nearly everything. And I have remove curse so the autocursing doesn't even matter. Herb farm done already, 200+ of stoma/marrelion/morgia each. So I just need some more potions of exchange to bring all my low stats to their cap. Or I could just say fuck it and not exchange anymore, since will is at 31, I just need one fucking point for innate 2 radius acid balls. Debating whether I should be lawful or neutral for the mystic, since both rewards would be quite nice for me. I guess I'll put it off until I've cleared a bunch of other shit and know whether or not I want the fodder artifact.

Edit: After converting, 149 blessed stoma only got me to 'very pleased' with is about 1/30th of what you need for a precrowning. It's totally useless now for sure.

Edit2: and not long after I got sacrificed while trying to livesac enemies to get undoomed. Fuck this game.