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The Codex of Roguelikes
- Thread starter Occasionally Fatal
- Start date
Renegen
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2011
- Messages
- 4,062
The latest patches are starting to look like League of Legends patch notes or something:
"We found that the old gameplay patterns of the Mindslayer were too simple and didn't offer much choice to the player or his enemies, as such we're emphasizing his volatile psychic identity and want players to synergize his conventional melee skills with his psychic skills for full results. We wanted to tone down the early game strength of his shields and provide some windows of opportunity for foes to get through them while also simultaneously addressing the Mindslayer's dependence on them late game and vulnerability when they are down. Also, although Conduit provided a lot of power, most of it was hidden and so we've removed the skill from the game."
I'm having fun comparing the old Mindslayer to the new one and really feel like the new one will be more fun and better at all stages of the game, but oh boy has he removed some of the things he was known for. It's actually really remarkable what the creator has done, he consistently shows a great understanding of how to make cooldown/tactical based combat interesting while balancing it for turn based gameplay. It turns out that one of the biggest problems is how OP ranged damage dealers are in this type of combat and having played most of the melee classes the latest Mindslayer is something really exciting. When I first played it, it took me several hours to get my head around what he even did and how 40+ skills synergized. It's just like every other class I guess, everyone knows what a Rogue can do, but what the hell is a Mindslayer? How does his gameplay differ from the 10 other melee classes? The question is just as important for the player as it was for the creator, because these classes are all crafted with so much care. And the patch adds a new class, the Skirmisher, cool stuff.
The big stuff many of the players are waiting for is the Orc expansion, coming Soon™, that lets you play as an orc. It also promises 5 new classes and one has been unintentionally revealed, the Demonologist.
"We found that the old gameplay patterns of the Mindslayer were too simple and didn't offer much choice to the player or his enemies, as such we're emphasizing his volatile psychic identity and want players to synergize his conventional melee skills with his psychic skills for full results. We wanted to tone down the early game strength of his shields and provide some windows of opportunity for foes to get through them while also simultaneously addressing the Mindslayer's dependence on them late game and vulnerability when they are down. Also, although Conduit provided a lot of power, most of it was hidden and so we've removed the skill from the game."
I'm having fun comparing the old Mindslayer to the new one and really feel like the new one will be more fun and better at all stages of the game, but oh boy has he removed some of the things he was known for. It's actually really remarkable what the creator has done, he consistently shows a great understanding of how to make cooldown/tactical based combat interesting while balancing it for turn based gameplay. It turns out that one of the biggest problems is how OP ranged damage dealers are in this type of combat and having played most of the melee classes the latest Mindslayer is something really exciting. When I first played it, it took me several hours to get my head around what he even did and how 40+ skills synergized. It's just like every other class I guess, everyone knows what a Rogue can do, but what the hell is a Mindslayer? How does his gameplay differ from the 10 other melee classes? The question is just as important for the player as it was for the creator, because these classes are all crafted with so much care. And the patch adds a new class, the Skirmisher, cool stuff.
The big stuff many of the players are waiting for is the Orc expansion, coming Soon™, that lets you play as an orc. It also promises 5 new classes and one has been unintentionally revealed, the Demonologist.
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Damned Registrations
Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2007
- Messages
- 15,022
Figured I'd give this yet another try. Level 1: smoked by an orc with a 70 damage melee weapon. Not an elite or anything mind you, just a regular soldier. Easier early game my ass. Level 4: normal enemies hitting for 90+ with ranged attacks. Very balanced, that leaves almost half my hp left! Level 7: Level 5 (6.5 really) Stunning blow gets resisted by an enemy with about 20 less physical save as my power. Must be a fluke right? Happens again 2 stuns later to a different enemy with an even lower save. Oh, and finishing the dungeon nets me like 1 fucking level, so I'm on track to fight the master (or Urkis AKA 'I-hit-for-300-every-turn-for-12-turns-from-off-screen-after-landing-a-single-spell-wizard' if I want more xp, such choices!) at like level 14 or some shit.
Fuck you game. Just fuck you.
Fuck you game. Just fuck you.
.
Damned Registrations
Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2007
- Messages
- 15,022
Well my reasoning is that shops are worthless and most of my deaths occur due to stupid amounts of status effects, so using gold for high saves seems like a good idea.
Renegen
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2011
- Messages
- 4,062
I mean dwarves are nice and all, but their annoying start because of the boss and their specialized role doesn't make them very popular. You really want to pick the right class for the dwarf. Although they don't refresh, shops are ok for preparing to challenges ahead and for specific items. For example, Zigur almost always has a teleportation torque available, great for the non-magic users to grab. Infusions and runes found in stores are also frequently better than your own, and those 2 new items alone increase survivability a lot. Then you can get lucky with item effects, you're mostly looking at buying specific +stat items, or resistance items, and every single shop has a chance of having unique items in them. This current Mindslayer run, I found a really nice unique ring in a jewelry shop, now I'm saving for it. Finally late game you can spend 2000 gold to get the best type of item in the game, an orange item, so gold has its use.. eventually.
edit: oh yeah, they nerfed Stun lol. My rogues shriek in pain but that's definitively a buff to melee classes.
edit: oh yeah, they nerfed Stun lol. My rogues shriek in pain but that's definitively a buff to melee classes.
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Damned Registrations
Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2007
- Messages
- 15,022
Usually anything worth wearing costs like 500+ gold, which is like all you gold at level 20. And even then, it'll be like a cloak or gloves or something, when what you really need is a tier 4 weapon to double your damage.
In theory you can get a bunch of lightning or whatever resist items for specific bosses/areas for around 100 gold each, but in practice shops don't carry anything but 50 prismatic items and other totally useless shit. Game has too many awful affixes.
Generally if I'm not playing dwarf I pick cornac. Free talent point is very useful. Mostly because movement/heal infusions and damage shields are incredibly useful.
In theory you can get a bunch of lightning or whatever resist items for specific bosses/areas for around 100 gold each, but in practice shops don't carry anything but 50 prismatic items and other totally useless shit. Game has too many awful affixes.
Generally if I'm not playing dwarf I pick cornac. Free talent point is very useful. Mostly because movement/heal infusions and damage shields are incredibly useful.
Answermancer
Educated
I've been playing ToME 4 again after first giving it a try a year ago and man... I really like this game.
Playing an Archer currently and I haven't died yet at level 14 which is pretty good for me. Though I've gotten really lucky on items I think, and the only reason I survived some things is a coat I found that shields me whenever I take more than 20% of my life in damage.
Playing an Archer currently and I haven't died yet at level 14 which is pretty good for me. Though I've gotten really lucky on items I think, and the only reason I survived some things is a coat I found that shields me whenever I take more than 20% of my life in damage.
I like the original TOME a lot, and have the DOS version that I run via DOSBox. I tried the newer TOME and it didn't really grab me as I felt the game is quite different (much easier) from the original. For instance, my 1st level halfling rogue was owning an ogre right at the get-go. But maybe I am wrong and was just lucky. What is the Codex hive mind consensus? Are they so different that they are two completely different games, or did I miss something in the beginning of playing the new one and this is really old TOME with a new paint job and some character variations?
(Which then evolved rather fast itself.).
Answermancer
Educated
I can't say much because I've never played the older versions, I'm honestly a roguelike noob, but I like 4 a lot and I don't feel like it's particularly easy (especially after this latest patch) and there are multiple difficulties also if you want more of a challenge.
Damned Registrations
Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2007
- Messages
- 15,022
I take it for a spin again once in a while, though I usually stop around the end of lothlorien. After that enemies start dropping relevant loot, which means you need to ID a ton of shit and set up the automizer. Also traps are infinitely more annoying when they're buried amongst a carpet of loot.
Damned Registrations
Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2007
- Messages
- 15,022
Wow, I just tried out the corruptor (which I hadn't done in forever, I dunno if I even played him beyond just loading the char to look at the skill tree) and have discovered that it is easy mode. Also, apparently one of the recent changes was to making healing infusions massively overpowered, making them instant AND cure some status effects.
But seriously, I've no idea how the corruptor is this OP given the creator's obssession with balancing everything deemed OP. This fucker has like 5 skills with a range of 10, and they all do massive damage and have essentially no travel time (fuck, one of them is a physical damage beam with 10 range, WTF) and on top of that, theres a ton of utility with dots, life stealing, debuffs, a very strong shield, an intstant cast disease spell (so you can literally just backpedal from some enemies endlessly while diseasing them and they're utterly fucked because you never stop moving) a spell to walk through walls (though not cave walls apparently?) and fearscape may as well just say "Kill target non demon enemy." Oh, and heal to full and bring all your shit off cooldown too, if they're strong enough to live for a few rounds while you sit in a corner and let them burn.
Did I mention you're not reliant on items at all because you don't need mana or weapon damage? Oh, and you get that 'corrupted negation' bullshit the boss of the fortress has, which basically dispels fucking everything off of a target, including shit like shield wall or berserking where it makes no sense.
Edit:
Ok game, I'll beat you this time, you can stop begging me.
But seriously, I've no idea how the corruptor is this OP given the creator's obssession with balancing everything deemed OP. This fucker has like 5 skills with a range of 10, and they all do massive damage and have essentially no travel time (fuck, one of them is a physical damage beam with 10 range, WTF) and on top of that, theres a ton of utility with dots, life stealing, debuffs, a very strong shield, an intstant cast disease spell (so you can literally just backpedal from some enemies endlessly while diseasing them and they're utterly fucked because you never stop moving) a spell to walk through walls (though not cave walls apparently?) and fearscape may as well just say "Kill target non demon enemy." Oh, and heal to full and bring all your shit off cooldown too, if they're strong enough to live for a few rounds while you sit in a corner and let them burn.
Did I mention you're not reliant on items at all because you don't need mana or weapon damage? Oh, and you get that 'corrupted negation' bullshit the boss of the fortress has, which basically dispels fucking everything off of a target, including shit like shield wall or berserking where it makes no sense.
Edit:
Ok game, I'll beat you this time, you can stop begging me.
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The creator isn't actually obsessed with balancing everything that is on the OP side---rather, he's always been overt about Archmages being intentionally far more robustly capable than other classes even. The Corruptor shares in this, as it is certainly a powerful class with few weaknesses---like nigh-certain death if you come across the many foes immune to Blight damage outright and haven't spec'd a certain way/gotten certain gear. The main issue stems from the era of development....groups large and small of the various classes were implemented as the development chugged along, things evolved/changed especially with the shift from the game from a Tolkien'ish flare harkening back to the ToME 2 days, with newer classes tending to first pop out of the kiln far more "interesting", like Oozemancers, than the much older ones especially that haven't seen much in the way of sprucing up on account of all the growth in other areas the game has experienced.
Dim
Not sure if advertising plant?
huge list with ! pics ! http://facepunch.com/threads/1146642
Essegi
Cipher
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2012
- Messages
- 396
Just spotted that:
INT
IndieDB page
I've still not really checked background (that is longer than most other rls), but from description it seems nice:
INT
IndieDB page
I've still not really checked background (that is longer than most other rls), but from description it seems nice:
I've not really understood if it will be more of a roguelike or a classic rpg (wathever that means...), but it seems potentially interesting.
Thanks for this! There are many roguelikes I have yet to try and after reading this list I am now attempted to give Caves of Qud, Mages Guild, and the briefly mentioned Omega (which crpgaddict enjoyed).
I have played, liked, and still need to beat original ADOM, Rogue, original NetHack, original TOME, Angband and Zangband. I still very much enjoy playing these today, even though my characters almost never survive to a respectfully high level.
Of course Dwarf Fortress is also awesome, though it can never be really "beat".
I defeated Castle of the Winds, and it was just an ok game. An alright time waster.
I tried Unreal World, and it seems well put together and that it would be fun for some, but is more of a wilderness survival game and I'm not big into that genre.
I played a demo of Dungeons of Dredmor a few years back, and I can't recommend it.
I also played Sword of the Stars: The Pit. Another casual RPG that I liked more than Dungeons of Dredmor due to its different sci-fi setting, but there are better roguelikes out there. If you have DOSBox, many of those older, better games are also free.
The SewerJacks rogulike game reminded me a little of the 3.5 edition D&D campaign called Sewer Rats:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Sewer_Rats_(3.5e_Campaign_Setting)
And if you haven't yet, go down to the comment section for some fun quotes:
In later pages they also mention some other roguelikes that aren't in the OP, for those curious.
Essegi
Cipher
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2012
- Messages
- 396
Well, last download is from 1st June 2014...
Btw, i hope to see soon an update of Frozen Depths, i played a bit current version and was very enjoyable...
Has anyone tried Ultima Ratio Regum? I'm slightly following updates, amazing concepts, it's on the road to become something legendary...
Zdzisiu
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2009
- Messages
- 3,499
If we manage to live that long
But yeah, it looks majestic as fuck, and I love to just look at the screenshots the guy puts on the website, being all amazed by how great he manages to make ASCII look.
Essegi
Cipher
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2012
- Messages
- 396
Eh he u'r right:
If we manage to live that long
But yeah, it looks majestic as fuck, and I love to just look at the screenshots the guy puts on the website, being all amazed by how great he manages to make ASCII look.
But at least he's a swiss clockwork on updates.. I dig too ASCII look, really excellent!
MisterStone
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2006
- Messages
- 9,422
Is URR playable atm?
almondblight
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2004
- Messages
- 2,549
Did the guy change the premise? A blog post from a couple years ago showed a 3x3 ascii dragon. Now the site says it's about politics in the 17th century?
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