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The Codexian Saga LP
- Thread starter The Barbarian
- Start date
taplonaplo
Scholar
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2008
- Messages
- 628
A
anus_pounder
Arcane
B
However I'm perfectly open to an A argument, considering B almost never works in these kinds of games.
However I'm perfectly open to an A argument, considering B almost never works in these kinds of games.
Oh wow, how I am tempted to vote A here, but B does seem the more sensible choice.
If we choose A, we risk escalating this conflict into open civil war, as the Barbarians latest update touches upon, but choosing B isn't a guarantee that this won't happen either.
It does seem safer though, and seeing as we're very busy with the colonizing, we can hardly afford a civil war. The commos are like to break off from unity again, and who knows how many newly-seeded worlds we will lose in the same way?
No, for now, I will go with
Option B
If we choose A, we risk escalating this conflict into open civil war, as the Barbarians latest update touches upon, but choosing B isn't a guarantee that this won't happen either.
It does seem safer though, and seeing as we're very busy with the colonizing, we can hardly afford a civil war. The commos are like to break off from unity again, and who knows how many newly-seeded worlds we will lose in the same way?
No, for now, I will go with
Option B
RandomLurker
Scholar
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
- Messages
- 137
B, definitely.
I believe both options would lead to "victory" here, as in the people will get their economic reforms either way. What we're doing here is choosing the political character of the future human state, specifically how authoritarian it will be. I for one would not like to see it move away from, sometimes misguided, but always morally sound, complete devotion to the light of the Saint just to fall into the trap of complete devotion to the whims of a man.
I believe both options would lead to "victory" here, as in the people will get their economic reforms either way. What we're doing here is choosing the political character of the future human state, specifically how authoritarian it will be. I for one would not like to see it move away from, sometimes misguided, but always morally sound, complete devotion to the light of the Saint just to fall into the trap of complete devotion to the whims of a man.
Brotherman Bill
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2009
- Messages
- 6,933
You should read up on the history of the rise of Marianism.Undead Phoenix said:
Me, I feel that B sounds like the naive choice. This is not a bioware choice; there are real consequences here... The likelihood of the traditionalists organizing a coup is huge, and we cannot afford to be naive. Having the traditionalists weeded out would be an instance of poetic justice really.
obediah
Erudite
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2005
- Messages
- 5,051
Well, fuck buckets.
A seems messy, inciteful, and the type of blatant, old-school reaction that we are reforming away from.
B is just naive. The stakes are too high to bring anything less than our full power to bear.
I vote for C in memory of Voltaire and Howard Zinn. We fight dirty, but not sloppy. Certo goes down via the courts or disgrace, and in such spectacular, public fashion that further alienates the traditionalists from the will of the people. Unlike B, we only care about the appearance of legitimacy of the process, not the actual legitimacy.
A seems messy, inciteful, and the type of blatant, old-school reaction that we are reforming away from.
B is just naive. The stakes are too high to bring anything less than our full power to bear.
I vote for C in memory of Voltaire and Howard Zinn. We fight dirty, but not sloppy. Certo goes down via the courts or disgrace, and in such spectacular, public fashion that further alienates the traditionalists from the will of the people. Unlike B, we only care about the appearance of legitimacy of the process, not the actual legitimacy.
taplonaplo
Scholar
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2008
- Messages
- 628
B, it's the same kind of bullshit like frugality and all. You don't need the illusion of legitimacy if your nation actually works. The Respublic made for bland diplomacy but it got shit down effectively, i rather not go to the total opposite. Strong central government is still needed. People are sheep, but they are pretty bloodthirsty ones right now, so why the hell not use that to our own advantage?
Brotherman Bill
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2009
- Messages
- 6,933
I vote A btw, if it wasn't obvious from my above post.
Cassidy
Arcane
A
Revisionists have destroyed all that is good about the ideals they sought to corrupt. DEATH TO REVISIONIST AND REFORMIST SCUM!
Revisionists have destroyed all that is good about the ideals they sought to corrupt. DEATH TO REVISIONIST AND REFORMIST SCUM!
juggernaut
Educated
option A!
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2002
- Messages
- 28,357
B
taplonaplo
Scholar
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2008
- Messages
- 628
The lack there of if you catch my drift.obediah said:
meeneque
Liturgist
Option B
Conkrete Knight
Educated
The problem here is that both options may result in civil war, albeit of different reasons.
How are the orthodox going to react on us slaughtering the holiest men of the state?
Right.
We risk a public outcry and the zealots turning against us.
Of course we probably are at war with them already, so B is us risking the banner bearers of our cause being assassinated, giving the enemy a head on.
It would however give us legitimation.
On the same time it would be a clear choice for THE LAW, which is something that has been missing lately.
It would also be lulzy if the investigation would show that it was another faction trying to go after us after all.
So B it is
How are the orthodox going to react on us slaughtering the holiest men of the state?
Right.
We risk a public outcry and the zealots turning against us.
Of course we probably are at war with them already, so B is us risking the banner bearers of our cause being assassinated, giving the enemy a head on.
It would however give us legitimation.
On the same time it would be a clear choice for THE LAW, which is something that has been missing lately.
It would also be lulzy if the investigation would show that it was another faction trying to go after us after all.
So B it is
Conkrete Knight
Educated
If they kill our guy he is going to be a martyr, dying for peace and THE LAW.
Our Jesus so to say.
Our Jesus so to say.
Conkrete Knight
Educated
My Point, exactly.
When did we start agreeing on things?
When did we start agreeing on things?
The Barbarian
Liturgist
Indeed. Much like the Barbarian himself.
The Barbarian
Liturgist
Please Note:
This is the last of the reform choices.
Codexia Reforged
When Benoit Charles Certo fell, it was with a whimper and not with a bang. Arrested in the dead of night by Respublican Gendarmerie officers and charged with conspiracy, second degree murder, heresy and a host of other abuses, the Elder’s power base evaporated almost instantaneously. This was partly due to the fact that he was not the only Traditionalist arrested that August morning. Lord Paladin Alphonse Steward, commander of the Paladins of Santi Maria, was captured at the same time and accused of co-conspiracy, aiding and abetting and fraud on a massive scale. The trials of the two men (and the veritable horde of their colleagues and subordinates also taken in during the massive police operation) became THE public spectacle of 403AU. Many millions were tuned in to watch the trial proceedings, at any given time. When the verdict eventually came back, it was unanimous: guilty. Across the board, the men who had been the bedrock of the Traditionalist movement were sentenced to long prison terms and, in a few cases, execution.
Certo was spared the latter fate after Elder Taizong himself intervened as amicus curiae and convinced the Grand Tribunal that life imprisonment was the more suitable punishment for an individual of such standing. Nonetheless, by October 403AU the Traditionalists were, in every meaningful way, no more. The Reformers had triumphed. When the Synod of the Faithful of Santi Maria finally convened that December, the Reformers pushed through enormous changes in governance, public law and the Respublican state institution as a whole. Though the Respublica retained its religious underpinnings, much power was removed from the church and delegated to a civilian (though not secular) government. It was a painful process, but there was no serious resistance to it. The Traditionalists had squandered their opportunity to fight back in a real sense. Now, they were relegated to a political minority of little import.
The smoothness of the ‘transfer of power’ and socio-political reformation previously alluded to was pivotal for the Venerable Respublica. It meant that there were no disruptions to an economy that continued to boom, and no pause for a strengthening colonial effort across the Dead Zone. Furthermore, the instruments of state remained whole and effective. The military, for example, continued to function as per normal throughout the crisis. There was no infighting. The forces of the Respublica remained disciplined and cohesive. Of course, that is not to say that all would simply continue as before, but in a more moderate fashion. After the dust settled in 404-405AU, the Respublica was still ruled by a Council of Elders, but many of its executive powers were now in the hands of a civilian political body. The Reformers had ‘bought’ support for their agenda by pursuing understandings with various other pre-Reform governmental bodies. It was now time to ‘pay the piper’.
Pavel Zub’s Ministry of the Interior, James Jules Vaingroff’s Ministry of Defence and Timor Denisov’s Ministry of Innovation, Industry and Science were the primary drivers of the Reformer success story. Their demands in its aftermath were relatively straightforward: money, money and more money. With a little extra influence thrown in, for good measure. In a sense, the new government then had to make a choice. Would it cave in to the demands of its political support system? Or would it instead resist the pressures of government lobbies, with all the potential difficulties that entailed? In truth, it was a decision not to be made lightly. The balance of power between and internal to the various branches of government is always delicate. The consequences of a skewed balance can be serious. On the other hand, smooth sailing often requires quite a bit of elbow grease, even if that grease proves quite costly.
Do you... keep your promise to the Ministries, and allocate extra funds to them in the coming budget review?
OR
Do you... invoke necessity and risk alienating them by not handing over the promised resources/money?
This is the last of the reform choices.
Codexia Reforged
When Benoit Charles Certo fell, it was with a whimper and not with a bang. Arrested in the dead of night by Respublican Gendarmerie officers and charged with conspiracy, second degree murder, heresy and a host of other abuses, the Elder’s power base evaporated almost instantaneously. This was partly due to the fact that he was not the only Traditionalist arrested that August morning. Lord Paladin Alphonse Steward, commander of the Paladins of Santi Maria, was captured at the same time and accused of co-conspiracy, aiding and abetting and fraud on a massive scale. The trials of the two men (and the veritable horde of their colleagues and subordinates also taken in during the massive police operation) became THE public spectacle of 403AU. Many millions were tuned in to watch the trial proceedings, at any given time. When the verdict eventually came back, it was unanimous: guilty. Across the board, the men who had been the bedrock of the Traditionalist movement were sentenced to long prison terms and, in a few cases, execution.
Certo was spared the latter fate after Elder Taizong himself intervened as amicus curiae and convinced the Grand Tribunal that life imprisonment was the more suitable punishment for an individual of such standing. Nonetheless, by October 403AU the Traditionalists were, in every meaningful way, no more. The Reformers had triumphed. When the Synod of the Faithful of Santi Maria finally convened that December, the Reformers pushed through enormous changes in governance, public law and the Respublican state institution as a whole. Though the Respublica retained its religious underpinnings, much power was removed from the church and delegated to a civilian (though not secular) government. It was a painful process, but there was no serious resistance to it. The Traditionalists had squandered their opportunity to fight back in a real sense. Now, they were relegated to a political minority of little import.
The smoothness of the ‘transfer of power’ and socio-political reformation previously alluded to was pivotal for the Venerable Respublica. It meant that there were no disruptions to an economy that continued to boom, and no pause for a strengthening colonial effort across the Dead Zone. Furthermore, the instruments of state remained whole and effective. The military, for example, continued to function as per normal throughout the crisis. There was no infighting. The forces of the Respublica remained disciplined and cohesive. Of course, that is not to say that all would simply continue as before, but in a more moderate fashion. After the dust settled in 404-405AU, the Respublica was still ruled by a Council of Elders, but many of its executive powers were now in the hands of a civilian political body. The Reformers had ‘bought’ support for their agenda by pursuing understandings with various other pre-Reform governmental bodies. It was now time to ‘pay the piper’.
Pavel Zub’s Ministry of the Interior, James Jules Vaingroff’s Ministry of Defence and Timor Denisov’s Ministry of Innovation, Industry and Science were the primary drivers of the Reformer success story. Their demands in its aftermath were relatively straightforward: money, money and more money. With a little extra influence thrown in, for good measure. In a sense, the new government then had to make a choice. Would it cave in to the demands of its political support system? Or would it instead resist the pressures of government lobbies, with all the potential difficulties that entailed? In truth, it was a decision not to be made lightly. The balance of power between and internal to the various branches of government is always delicate. The consequences of a skewed balance can be serious. On the other hand, smooth sailing often requires quite a bit of elbow grease, even if that grease proves quite costly.
Do you... keep your promise to the Ministries, and allocate extra funds to them in the coming budget review?
OR
Do you... invoke necessity and risk alienating them by not handing over the promised resources/money?
RandomLurker
Scholar
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2005
- Messages
- 137
Wait a minute... Interior, Defense, Innovation/Industry/Science? What does the Respublica even have besides that, a Ministry of Sports?
Actually, now that I think about it, this is a good question - what else is there? So far I'm leaning towards A, but I'd like to know whose share of the budget it would be cutting into.
Actually, now that I think about it, this is a good question - what else is there? So far I'm leaning towards A, but I'd like to know whose share of the budget it would be cutting into.
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