From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[deuxhero]

But NB is doing the port job, even publishing it in Japan, as far as I can tell.

 

[Raghar]

I don't think the amount of buttons PC bros have will be a problem in terms of balance in Dark Souls. The combat is about precision, not how fast you are able to cycle through your spells, items, skills, whatever.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/76918599/Rapier-V1-User-Manual
Look here under script programming in detail. And also all commands are stored on mouse, and it works under Linux.
Yes it's about precision not about how many buttons you have (game pad has more simultaneously accessible buttons as long as you are not using no ghosting mechanical gold contact plated keyboard, for example STEELBOARD or MERC.) Moving around with uncanny precision after pressing one mouse button is exactly what PC can do. In addition high DPI accurate PC mouses, and high speed keyboards, are not out of grasp of average person. Thus even if there will not be certain programs PC has definitely an advantage. Multiplayer would be disaster.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You can already cheat in multiplayer anyways. All the dpi in the world won't matter if the other guy can't take damage. It won't really help if he's just being cheesy and spamming healing items or in way better gear than his level should have equipped either. And there are likely more people with invincibility hacks than keyboard macros, since it's easier to set up and more effective.

 

[praetor]

there are hackers only on the x360 (and you can still bleed them to death, afaik. or kick them off a ledge. and from what i hear they're not really numerous anyway). no such thing as hackers on PS3. there's only the BB glitch that is used by griefers (that griefed without it anyway. with the BB glitch it's just easier and quicker.. but it's also easier and quicker for counter-griefers) and legitimate PvPers. spam healing items in PvP and any decent player will punish you.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

there are hackers only on the x360 (and you can still bleed them to death, afaik. or kick them off a ledge. and from what i hear they're not really numerous anyway). no such thing as hackers on PS3. there's only the BB glitch that is used by griefers (that griefed without it anyway. with the BB glitch it's just easier and quicker.. but it's also easier and quicker for counter-griefers) and legitimate PvPers. spam healing items in PvP and any decent player will punish you.

This. Spamming healing will get you immediately killed, as it takes longer to quaff the potion than just hold your shield and dodge, and hope for that lucky backstab.

I do worry about cheaters on PC, but hopefully that kick command will come in useful in knocking imbeciles off the numinous cliffs.

I still think this game will be a disasters without rebindable keys, regardless of the game being slower and more tactical, it has a number of buttons to press, I'm not sure how two mouse buttons are going to work out anyway, with strong attack, weak attack, parry, riposte, and shield alone, this becomes a difficult game to juggle controls. When you count in quickswitching items, and the need to use a pyromancy glove or talisman for spells, it becomes a disaster to juggle items as well as four buttons just to switch between attack and block types. Oh yes, and estus flasks, as well as the need for lock-on targeting (think firebombs and pyromancy). And of course, everybody has a bow rigged up to their quickitem inventory! Drake Sword is impossible without.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You realize you don't have to heal right next to a guy with a sword right? You can run away until your enemy is busy (either with enemies or phantoms, depending on which side of the invasion you're on.) You might as well have said attacking will get you immediately killed, as it takes longer to recover from a sword swing than it does to perfectly block, cancel the animation and then counter attack. If someone knows everything you know AND has unlimited resources, they're going to win.

You can probably do something horrible with one of the activatable items and repair dust as well.

 

[praetor]

a good player will never be much more than a roll away from you. heal=> roll/pivot BS, and you'll likely be chain BSed 'cause you healed. the only problem with healing is when you're fighting gankers (usually the forest or kiln) and you're trying to eliminate them one at a time and the host is constantly healing the phantoms. otherwise, you're probably going to lose more health than you gained

 

[ArcturusXIV]

Not to mention, turning your back to run is a TERRIBLE idea that invites falling on someone's sword. (i.e. Backstabbity stab!)

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah I get it you're all pros who are better than anyone who has ever played the game ever. And you always have more stamina than them, especially after swinging your weapon, so you can roll more times than they can when they try to get away. Right.

 

[praetor]

i'm most certainly not a "pro" (i get my ass kicked in seconds whenever i face one), but i know some basic tactics and strategies from the couple hundred duels/invasions i did. healing in a "fair" 1 vs 1 duel will certainly cause far more damage then it will heal (especially if the opponent is using the OP hornet ring.. although then it wouldn't be a fair duel ). if you're ganking and you heal, then fuck off. if you're getting ganked then all is fair, but healing opportunities will be very few and far between (just take a look at the nicovideo vids uploaded by sansviedotcom on youtube... particularly by that awesome "forest invader" pro player that pretty much kills gankers or a living. you'll see that it's not easy). for "normal" invasions.. well, that's a bit harder to judge especially when you factor in the massive lag of the shitty p2p netcode, but you're more than likely getting BSes as soon as you turn your back (unless you somehow managed to be at least 2 rolls away when you started running)

 

[Monocause]

@the GFWL discussion: On the other hand GFWL worked fairly well for Age of Empires Online. The game turned out to be a flop anyway but online play worked fine.

PS returned to my old avatar.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Ho ho ho, Age of Empires Online. Microsoft shouldn't have destroyed Ensemble Studios, those guys could have made another AoE game (or even AoM) and it would have been a huge hit.

 

[deuxhero]

i'm most certainly not a "pro" (i get my ass kicked in seconds whenever i face one), but i know some basic tactics and strategies from the couple hundred duels/invasions i did. healing in a "fair" 1 vs 1 duel will certainly cause far more damage then it will heal (especially if the opponent is using the OP hornet ring.. although then it wouldn't be a fair duel ). if you're ganking and you heal, then fuck off. if you're getting ganked then all is fair, but healing opportunities will be very few and far between (just take a look at the nicovideo vids uploaded by sansviedotcom on youtube... particularly by that awesome "forest invader" pro player that pretty much kills gankers or a living. you'll see that it's not easy). for "normal" invasions.. well, that's a bit harder to judge especially when you factor in the massive lag of the shitty p2p netcode, but you're more than likely getting BSes as soon as you turn your back (unless you somehow managed to be at least 2 rolls away when you started running)

For Melee vs Melee.

Having PVPed as a level 80 magic user and a low level Belmont build (Poison knifes are fun in PVP), getting away isn't THAT hard (but by no means easy) if you never "engage" in melee and only take some light hits.

Then there is the REALLY annoying ladder chokepoints that are pretty much impossible to pass if a invader doesn't want you to

 

[Damned Registrations]

The thing is, if you're cheating for infinite heals, you're either going to be ganking (In which case you can use enemies and in any event would have no chance to heal at all normally) or you're going to be farming gankers with 2 summoned phantoms, in which case they can slow someone down enough for you to spam heals. In EITHER case, since you know this is your plan, you're going to have higher hp than a normal build to abuse your heals better, and you'll have stamina regen effect up in light burden so nobody can possibly outrun you and at best can keep up if nothing is in their way. You'd also probably want to use a force miracle to keep your opponent wary/give you the needed room.

Being 2 rolls away when you started running is as simple as rolling away until the other guy can't roll after you any more, either because of your superior stamina regen, or him wasting stamina on an attack/block/dodge whatever.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

I may not be a pro, but you can check YouTube, where there are plenty of PvP battles. And in not a single one of them is anyone healing!

 

[SerratedBiz]

Dude heals aplenty in this video:

 

[praetor]

The thing is, if you're cheating for infinite heals, you're either going to be ganking (In which case you can use enemies and in any event would have no chance to heal at all normally) or you're going to be farming gankers with 2 summoned phantoms, in which case they can slow someone down enough for you to spam heals.

you've got some terms confused: if you're ganking you can't use enemies because you're hosting with 1/2 summoned phantoms (and in that case "infinite heals" don't mean much because you're either a terrible player and you'll die eventually or whoever's invading isn't good in 1vs3 fights so it doesn't matter anyway), the invading phantom can. and if you're not ganking you're invading or "normally" hosting, in which case you're either: a) looking for a regular, fair duel (i.e. no healing "allowed", relatively small arenas were morons that heal can be very easily punished) or b) invading "normally" in which case anything goes so whatever (unlimited heals won't be a big deal)

In EITHER case, since you know this is your plan, you're going to have higher hp than a normal build to abuse your heals better, and you'll have stamina regen effect up in light burden so nobody can possibly outrun you and at best can keep up if nothing is in their way. You'd also probably want to use a force miracle to keep your opponent wary/give you the needed room.

huh? what is a "normal" build? the PvP "standard" is ~50 vit with RoFaP and MoM giving you ~2100 HP while max vit will give you 2622 (which is something pretty much every elemental/vit gouge build has... which are far from uncommon), 500 is a lot, but not that much (less than two 1H R1 attacks by a small, fast, dex weapon). and if by that "light burden stamina regen effect" you mean not wearing any heavy armour (i.e. no poise, or the lulzy 40 poise of the wolf ring, but then you can't have the flip roll, in which case almost everybody will catch up with you since flipping is faster than running/rolling), prepare to die very very frequently or have very very few pvp sessions (i.e. a lot of wasted time with 0 souls gained. unless you're a ganker, of course. but then you're just a shithead), unless you're the master dodger of the universe and backstab/parry master of the galaxy with a nasa-level connection. force won't give you much room since everybody is expecting WoG anytime a catalyst is pulled out and the standard to avoid damage vs WoG is roll towards the player (and usually land an easy backstab). Force is more of a "mindgame" tool to make your opponent think you have more WoGs that you actually do.. or for having fun in places with many ledges/cliffs (Catacombs are especially fun for that)

Being 2 rolls away when you started running is as simple as rolling away until the other guy can't roll after you any more, either because of your superior stamina regen, or him wasting stamina on an attack/block/dodge whatever.

it's not as "simple" as you make it out to be. yeah, it's very simple vs bad players (and in that case, why even bother healing), but difficult vs good players since they won't be caught with their pants down (i.e. 0 stamina). not to mention, if you're far enough to heal without being punished, and you do that frequently, the other player can heal too (and nowadays everybody has 90+ humanities at hand). that "infinite heals" part will very rarely come into play because i have never seen (or participated in) any kind of pvp session where whoever healed had more than 1-2 chances to do so (and more often than not, died in the process). "infinite heals" is really a non-issue the most use out of it will probably be by legit hosters (so they don't have to refresh at bonfires.. other than for spells)
either way, no good player will use hacks to win, only crappy ones do. and there's no hack that can help crappy players win anywhere near a regular basis (there's infinite health/stamina hacks on the x360. guess what? they still lose more than they win whenever they're faced with good players)

i'm most certainly not a "pro" (i get my ass kicked in seconds whenever i face one), but i know some basic tactics and strategies from the couple hundred duels/invasions i did. healing in a "fair" 1 vs 1 duel will certainly cause far more damage then it will heal (especially if the opponent is using the OP hornet ring.. although then it wouldn't be a fair duel ). if you're ganking and you heal, then fuck off. if you're getting ganked then all is fair, but healing opportunities will be very few and far between (just take a look at the nicovideo vids uploaded by sansviedotcom on youtube... particularly by that awesome "forest invader" pro player that pretty much kills gankers or a living. you'll see that it's not easy). for "normal" invasions.. well, that's a bit harder to judge especially when you factor in the massive lag of the shitty p2p netcode, but you're more than likely getting BSes as soon as you turn your back (unless you somehow managed to be at least 2 rolls away when you started running)

For Melee vs Melee.

Having PVPed as a level 80 magic user and a low level Belmont build (Poison knifes are fun in PVP), getting away isn't THAT hard (but by no means easy) if you never "engage" in melee and only take some light hits.

Then there is the REALLY annoying ladder chokepoints that are pretty much impossible to pass if a invader doesn't want you to

SL80 isn't quite a "pvp standard", and magic users are notoriously hard to play as since magic is hilariously easy to dodge (and at lvl80 i doubt you had access to the most powerful and arguably most useful spell, CSS, unless you were going for a "glass cannon" type of build, in which case i doubt you survived much vs good players. if you did win more than you lost, i'd really like to duel with you sometime and pick up some moves 'cause i suck at landing sorceries in pvp, unless it's the odd lucky HCSM shot)

Dude heals aplenty in this video:

yeah, he's the "pro ganker killer" i mentioned earlier. you won't see many players pull that sort of stunts on a regular basis

 

[deuxhero]

Haven't played in a month (away from console), but narrow areas greatly remove the ability to dodge that.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yes, clearly only a legendary player can manage to get hit 4 times while rolling away then run for 30 seconds until he finds an enemy before popping humanity. Normal players don't know what enemies are and definitely can't run, or roll.

You realize the entire reason this tangent started was the fact that someone was bitching about how a programmed macro would be unbalanced in favour of PC users right? You're arguing that that has more of an impact than infinite souls and healing items at every point in the game?

 

[praetor]

You realize the entire reason this tangent started was the fact that someone was bitching about how a programmed macro would be unbalanced in favour of PC users right? You're arguing that that has more of an impact than infinite souls and healing items at every point in the game?

i am? where? i must have missed it when i was arguing that in PvP infinite healing items would have little-to-no impact...

EDIT: and what impact would infinite souls have? more souls to level beyond the standard pvp range? i mean, there was already the dragon head glitch pre-patch and it hardly mattered. hell, you can make about a million souls (if not more) in an hour in the painted world without any cheap tricks or hacks... indeed

 

[ArcturusXIV]

Thread needs moer Skyway.

 

[Surf Solar]

Some update on my let's fail playthrough: I finally managed to kill the Taurus Daemon.



After that, I didn't have so many problems actually (except that huge dragon on that bridge, I tried to cheese-shoot him with hundreds of arrows, but it was a borefest and I gave up). I killed another 2 Dead/Black Knights without dying once, yay. I also killed those 2 Gargoyles on my second attempt, yay, oh and this huge demon right before the forest area was slain aswell. Then I walked a bit into that forest, did a stupid mistake and actually farmed those 20k souls to get this key from the blacksmith - I later realized this is just a shortcut and the souls were wasted. Died to those forest guardians there anyway. :D Then I grabbed the elite knight armor set and reinforced it to +5, the same with the winged spear. Normal enemies are easy pie at the moment, but that Goat Demon miniboss in the deeper Undead Burg is giving me headache (the one that comes with those 2 undead dogs or whatever they are). They immedieately rush into me as soon as I walk through the fog wall and slug away all my stamina making it easy to hit me through the shield. Will try it out soon again, I saw some stairs in the back, maybe I can walk up there without the demon following me. Great game!

 

[praetor]

nah, you didn't waste those 20k (that's a great farming spot, especially early on 'cause most of the forest guardians respawn and there's a very easy and relatively quick way of killing them all for an easy 7k souls every minute or two. there's also a bonfire right next to that door you just unlocked, behind the fake wall ). yeah, spears make PvE pretty easy for the most part, although they're pretty boring, imho. and the Capra Demon gives headaches to most new players, but you're heading in the right direction with your thoughts about the stairs

 

[Antagonist]

(except that huge dragon on that bridge, I tried to cheese-shoot him with hundreds of arrows, but it was a borefest and I gave up).

I've read that they added regeneration to the bridge dragon to avoid such cheap tactics.

Then I walked a bit into that forest, did a stupid mistake and actually farmed those 20k souls to get this key from the blacksmith - I later realized this is just a shortcut and the souls were wasted.

It's not really wasted as it is the shortest path from the bonfire to the boss of this area and you can run past all enemies easily. I needed about 30 tries until I managed to fell the boss so I was quite thankful for the shortcut.

They immedieately rush into me as soon as I walk through the fog wall and slug away all my stamina making it easy to hit me through the shield. Will try it out soon again, I saw some stairs in the back, maybe I can walk up there without the demon following me. Great game!

The outcome of the fight is usually decided in the first 10 seconds. If you can manage to get rid of the both dogs then the goat demon becomes rather simple afterwards.

 

[Hobo Elf]

(except that huge dragon on that bridge, I tried to cheese-shoot him with hundreds of arrows, but it was a borefest and I gave up).

I've read that they added regeneration to the bridge dragon to avoid such cheap tactics.

Did it two weeks ago. It's still in.

In other news, the Darkwraith armor and sword is fucking awesome. Especially love the move set on the Darksword. The Dark hand is fun too, but I have to choose if I want to use it as a shield or if I want to suck humanities, which kind of sucks. Taking another item as a shield isn't really an option here because then I won't have optimal roll speed.