From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[Jasede]

Pretty sure we'll keep thinking that. From Software is notorious for shitty ports- nobody sane would ask for one and they know they have a bad reputation for them, too. That's why they wanted to avoid one in the first place. But no, people had to whine and bitch for one.

how are they notorious for shitty ports (i'm assuming pc here) if they only did one, and of a really terrible game at that? they wanted to avoid one because they have very little experience (and because they're relatively small and proper porting can be expensive and time consuming). and who "whined and bitched" for a port? people saw that (if ported properly, of course, not this quick money-grubbing sham) it could be a very good title on PC quite suited for the PC gaming community and so they started a petition (technically encouraged by Bamco)? where does the "whining and bitching" exactly come into this scenario?

I'm just blabbing about things I don't know about; it's a national sport. Especially ITT.

 

[20 Eyes]

PC Gamers: From Software, are you going to port Dark Souls to the PC?

From Software: Unfortunately, we're not interested in doing a PC port. We're a console oriented company and we don't think there is enough interest to warrant a PC version Dark Souls.

PC Gamers: Please! We'll bombard you with requests to show that there is interest. Did you know that over 3,000,000,000 people worldwide own PCs and we'd all love to... ahem... 'play' your game?

From Software: We didn't realize so many people wanted a chance to buy and enjoy Dark Souls. Consider your request granted! We'll start work immediately.

PC Gamers: ...yes... 'buy'. Anyway, how is work coming? I hope you've completely rebuilt your game in every aspect, from the UI to the controls to the display, to accommodate our many needs!

From Software: Actually, we haven't. We're focusing on merely bringing the game to the PC, instead of rebuilding everything a million times over to meet the infinite array of PC configurations. We did add some exciting new content!

PC Gamers: ...you what? You mean you haven't spent the time and resources to rebuild your game from the ground up for a market that you didn't think was big enough to justify a port at all until enough of us begged you to? I hope you realize that this means we're not going to buy your game anymore. We know that adding everything we demand is effortlessly done, because we have access to wikipedia and know everything about running businesses and developing games!

From Software: But I thought you guys wanted to play Dark Souls and couldn't because you don't own consoles. We just wanted to focus on bringing the game over to the PC, we're not really PC-oriented developers.

PC Gamers: Oh... we're going to play it all right. But we're not going to buy it. You see, we're morally obligated to pirate your game now since we're not happy with how the port was done. We'll likely play it for dozens of hours, but we're also morally obligated to spam your metacritic reviews with 0 scores. You see... us PC Gamers live by a strict code of honor, I'm sure that you understand being Japanese and all.

From Software: I don't understand.

PC Gamers: Well maybe you should learn from the esteemed and prestigious Masters of PC Focused Gaming. Among them are Trioka, Bullfrog, Firaxis, Sir-Tech, Interplay, Black Isle, Micropose, SSI, New World Computing, Crytek, CD Projekt... uhh... actually... well, there are still a few Russian and Eastern European developers that make PC exclusive games in exchange for potatoes. Clearly, you can see that associating with us is a very profitable and rewarding endeavor!

 

[made]

Fuck that fanboy reasoning. If pollacks can put effort into their port (something they had no prior experience in either) so can glorious japanese master race.

Take some hints from Obsidian, they know how to make a solid K&M control scheme for action games.

 

[Black]

!

And I thought Fallout 3 was a bad fanfic.
If they can't deliver a good port, they shouldn't even try- that's it
Also, I love how you keep repeating "From Software" in your doujinshi, as if they are the ones making the decisions, or even the ones making the port.
Adds to your credibility.

 

[Grimlorn]

A keyboard + mouse would be horrible for this game anyway. The gameplay is thoroughly designed for a gamepad. Playing Dark Souls on a keyboard + mouse would be like trying to play JA2 on a gamepad.

bawww

You sound mad.

They didn't want to port the game in the first place, and only did after being overwhelmed with pleas from pirates PC gamers. PC gamers are the most finicky, self-entitled consumers on the planet. This is exactly what would happen on the internet no matter what they did about the controls:

Enable keyboard + mouse, game plays awkwardly because it was designed from the ground up for a gamepad:

SHIT GAME THE CONTROLS SUCK! LETS BOMB THE METACRITIC WITH 0 SCORES FOR THE WIN! YOU CAN'T TREAT PC GAMERS LIKE THIS!

Game can only be played the way it was designed:

YOU MEAN I CAN'T PLAY THIS GAME WITH MY STEERING WHEEL AND GEAR SHIFT ACCESSORY?!?!?! SHIT GAME! NO PURCHASE! YOU CAN'T TREAT PC GAMERS LIKE THIS!

While the recent port news is bad, I don't see how K will be that bad. Look at Witcher 2. That game ripped off Demon's Souls combat and people played that game with a keyboard and a mouse fine. I'm not convinced a K will be too difficult to play. Gamepad will be better, but only a bit I think.

 

[20 Eyes]

!

And I thought Fallout 3 was a bad fanfic.
If they can't deliver a good port, they shouldn't even try- that's it

The port isn't even out yet, and it wouldn't have happened if they weren't bombarded with so many requests. Buy it or not, but you can't fault them for trying if it doesn't turn out perfect. This is new to them and they don't make PC games. Either way, this article claims mouse + KB support will be included although it's not recommended. But keep being a delusional PCtard and wondering why anyone that tries to make PC games ends up either enthralled or bankrupt. It must be because PC gamers are such great customers.

Also, I love how you keep repeating "From Software" in your doujinshi, as if they are the ones making the decisions, or even the ones making the port.
Adds to your credibility.

Yeah, because whether Namco or From do it is so relevant to the points I made. But since you're such a credible source and seem to know so much about the port's development, who is making it? Obviously, Namco probably have ultimate control, but from this interview it sounds like From Software is making it:

Miyazaki: I was excited, but as I don’t have that experience in making PC games, I was also a bit afraid. I had concerns about making the PC version in terms of things like technical issues, but it was thrilling to get that chance. Having that chance to work on a platform that’s new to you is fun; it’s a challenge.

You seem to have the inside scope, so please clarify.

While the recent port news is bad, I don't see how K will be that bad. Look at Witcher 2. That game ripped off Demon's Souls combat and people played that game with a keyboard and a mouse fine. I'm not convinced a K will be too difficult to play. Gamepad will be better, but only a bit I think.

I still haven't played Witcher 2, but if it's anything like Witcher 1 I don't see many similarities. Dark Souls, at least how I played it, has a lot of subtle movements and stop-go accelerations/decelerations that I don't think would be easily performed on a keyboard + mouse. Maybe I'm wrong and it'll work just fine, but I think it would be more awkward. The fact that the game's director is recommending that people don't play with a keyboard + mouse leads me to believe it doesn't work that great.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

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It's not a shooter or a strategy game, would it really matter if you can't use mouse and keyboard?

 

[abija]

But keep being a delusional PCtard and wondering why anyone that tries to make PC games ends up either enthralled or bankrupt. It must be because PC gamers are such great customers.

So you're full blown retard, gotcha...

Dark Souls, at least how I played it, has a lot of subtle movements and stop-go accelerations/decelerations that I don't think would be easily performed on a keyboard + mouse.

Are you using the KB to dust your carpets and the mouse to catch flies if you think that's some special mechanic for the combo?

 

[20 Eyes]

But keep being a delusional PCtard and wondering why anyone that tries to make PC games ends up either enthralled or bankrupt. It must be because PC gamers are such great customers.

So you're full blown retard, gotcha...

Dark Souls, at least how I played it, has a lot of subtle movements and stop-go accelerations/decelerations that I don't think would be easily performed on a keyboard + mouse.

Are you using the KB to dust your carpets and the mouse to catch flies if you think that's some special mechanic for the combo?

Nice shit post.

 

[Achilles]

Uh, guys, is that video representative of the quality of combat we should expect from Dark Souls? Because, in all honesty, it seems unbelievably lame.

is it really so hard to read? it's a video of an easy, cheesy, cheap way to kill one of the minibosses at the lowest levels with starting equipment (pretty much when you're not "supposed" to fight/kill him).

Here's what was written in the original post, word for word:

Surf Solar said: ↑​

So how to defeat the Dragon? He is too powerful. ​

Pull him with an arrow, roll behind leg with two-handed sword, repeatedly bash his heels.

Run down stairs.​

Repeat.​

Also, may be a bug, but if you run past him, he disappears!​

not a bug. he just flies away (you can clearly see him doing so)

btw, i think smacking in the head once and running under the stairs is a safer tactic, but probably a bit more time consuming . video:

Now, kindly show me where in that post is it mentioned that the video is about a cheesy tactic to kill a strong boss with a low-level character.

Also, if you want, post a video of a combat sequence that you feel is representative of the game. I don't know anything about the game and I'd like to see for myself why DS's combat is so highly regarded.

 

[Antagonist]

Also, if you want, post a video of a combat sequence that you feel is representative of the game. I don't know anything about the game and I'd like to see for myself why DS's combat is so highly regarded.

As with most fighting games it's very difficult to convey combat mechanics and difficulty in mere videos without being able to actually control the character. Take the boss fight against the two bell gargoyles for instance which was already posted here previously. If a skilled player encounters those guys it looks very simple but many first time players were utterly and repeatedly raped by that thing until they learned the attack patterns, the attack strength of individual attacks and experimented with equipment. You also have to do a lot of split second decisions regarding your stamina (single regenerating "mana" source for attacks, blocking, evading, running) and general risk management. You'll have to trust the explanations of your peers because YouTube videos won't suffice unless you are already familiar with the game.

 

[funkadelik]

Also, if you want, post a video of a combat sequence that you feel is representative of the game. I don't know anything about the game and I'd like to see for myself why DS's combat is so highly regarded.

As with most fighting games it's very difficult to convey combat mechanics and difficulty in mere videos without being able to actually control the character. Take the boss fight against the two bell gargoyles for instance which was already posted here previously. If a skilled player encounters those guys it looks very simple but many first time players were utterly and repeatedly raped by that thing until they learned the attack patterns, the attack strength of individual attacks and experimented with equipment. You also have to do a lot of split second decisions regarding your stamina (single regenerating "mana" source for attacks, blocking, evading, running) and general risk management. You'll have to trust the explanations of your peers because YouTube videos won't suffice unless you are already familiar with the game.

I don't remember how I took those gargoyles out, but I remember I was pumped after I beat them first try. I attribute it to spending a couple hours trying to kill a Black Knight and learning my moves (not exploiting things in the game).

 

[20 Eyes]

Also, if you want, post a video of a combat sequence that you feel is representative of the game. I don't know anything about the game and I'd like to see for myself why DS's combat is so highly regarded.

As with most fighting games it's very difficult to convey combat mechanics and difficulty in mere videos without being able to actually control the character. Take the boss fight against the two bell gargoyles for instance which was already posted here previously. If a skilled player encounters those guys it looks very simple but many first time players were utterly and repeatedly raped by that thing until they learned the attack patterns, the attack strength of individual attacks and experimented with equipment. You also have to do a lot of split second decisions regarding your stamina (single regenerating "mana" source for attacks, blocking, evading, running) and general risk management. You'll have to trust the explanations of your peers because YouTube videos won't suffice unless you are already familiar with the game.

The dude in the gargoyle video was also close to getting his shit slapped, it seems like he kinda got lucky in that he managed to kill the first one before the second advanced. But he's probably done it before, so he must've known what he was doing. The bell tower gargoyles are a good example of how the game fucks with the player. Here is a boss (not very hard 1 on 1, admittedly), halfway through the fight here is a second boss and then shit gets brutal.

I don't remember how I took those gargoyles out, but I remember I was pumped after I beat them first try. I attribute it to spending a couple hours trying to kill a Black Knight and learning my moves (not exploiting things in the game).

My paladin build took maybe 6-8 tries in my first game to bring them down, I barely won when I finally managed it. I replayed with a weaker character and I thought the gargoyles would fuck me pretty good, but I managed to drop them the first time.

 

[Cassidy]

A keyboard + mouse would be horrible for this game anyway. The gameplay is thoroughly designed for a gamepad. Playing Dark Souls on a keyboard + mouse would be like trying to play JA2 on a gamepad.

This is like that thing Obsidian fanboys were talking about Dungeon Siege 3.

Typical excuse of blind fanboy, actually.

You should sell your PCs, stick to your consoles and gtfo RPGCodex if you love them that much.

 

[Jasede]

This is the problem with arguing on the Codex, there's only black or white. You're either a consoletard or a PC faggot. You either enjoy popamole or you're a combatfag or anything. There are no shades of gray, not even the slightest possibility of moderate attitudes and opinions.

That's why it is done strictly for the lulz, rather than for any purpose. All of us are aware that nobody will change their opinion, no matter the argumentative evidence either way.

 

[Sul]

God, the bigotry is strong on this thread.

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It's not a shooter or a strategy game, would it really matter if you can't use mouse and keyboard?

My thoughts exactly. Also, keyboard is imprecise as fuck when it comes to character movement on third person games.

 

[20 Eyes]

A keyboard + mouse would be horrible for this game anyway. The gameplay is thoroughly designed for a gamepad. Playing Dark Souls on a keyboard + mouse would be like trying to play JA2 on a gamepad.

This is like that thing Obsidian fanboys were talking about Dungeon Siege 3.

Typical excuse of blind fanboy, actually.

You should sell your PCs, stick to your consoles and gtfo RPGCodex if you love them that much.

Say that a game would be better on a gamepad and watch the PCtards come out of the woodwork. Of course if I said that some game would be better on a flightsim joystick nobody would have a problem. If you don't realize that there are some things an analog stick can do more smoothly than WSAD you're beyond salvation. I don't even know what your issue with my post is because you're just screaming "FANBOY!" like a delusional PCtard.

This is the problem with arguing on the Codex, there's only black or white. You're either a consoletard or a PC faggot. You either enjoy popamole or you're a combatfag or anything. There are no shades of gray, not even the slightest possibility of moderate attitudes and opinions.

So true. I'm being asked to sell my PCs because I like a console game. "You're either A or B". I occasionally like A and B, which makes me an irredeemable consolefag on some Codex threads and a PC faggot most other places.

 

[Black]

A keyboard + mouse would be horrible for this game anyway. The gameplay is thoroughly designed for a gamepad. Playing Dark Souls on a keyboard + mouse would be like trying to play JA2 on a gamepad.

This is like that thing Obsidian fanboys were talking about Dungeon Siege 3.

Typical excuse of blind fanboy, actually.

You should sell your PCs, stick to your consoles and gtfo RPGCodex if you love them that much.

Cassidy-kun, my asshole hurts from all this brofisting.


Jasede-kun, don't pull that shit "euuughhh, this is Codex so..."
Let's get this done step by step, shall we?
1. A petition gets made with lots of people signing it, signalizing they want a PC port
2. Silence from both Namco and From, no feedback, no nothing, because you can't call a facebook page for farming likes feedback.
3. Finally, something appears, a box, with GFWL on it.
4. Shitstorm happens, because not only GFWL is terrible in itself, it's additionally a huge sign of a half-assed port.
5. Articles pop up mentioning that DS for PC is "mainly a port", "minimal k+m support", "same UI" and generally it being a 1:1 port- http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/04/17/dark-souls-pc-prepare-to-sigh/
6. Some more articles pop up mentioning how PC players hate GFWL and that Namco "may yet change it". - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-17-dark-souls-pc-may-not-be-restricted-to-games-for-window
s-live

So, this isn't about your arguments vs my arguments, it's about what Namco is delivering. Shitty ports, no matter of how good games, remain shitty ports. So please, leave your "waaah, it's Codex so you're either A or B" bullshit on circlejerking sites such as Popamole Watch. Go play a shitty port on PC, such as Resident Evil 4 and then a good port, like Devil May Cry 4 and maybe you'll understand why people freak out when they see signs of a shitty port.

 

[Gragt]

You are with us or against us. Incidentally I do not own any console (except for my old NES, SMS and Genesis but these haven't been used for more than a decade) yet I have no problem using a pad for the majority of games that support them. It's good that some care about the controls is taken when games are ported to PC, but even then sometimes the game was still designed to be played with a pad. If anything it's nice to have the choice on how to play the thing.

 

[20 Eyes]

So, this isn't about your arguments vs my arguments, it's about what Namco is delivering. Shitty ports, no matter of how good games, remain shitty ports. So please, leave your "waaah, it's Codex so you're either A or B" bullshit on circlejerking sites such as Popamole Watch. Go play a shitty port on PC, such as Resident Evil 4 and then a good port, like Devil May Cry 4 and maybe you'll understand why people freak out when they see signs of a shitty port.

OK, don't answer my question on who is making the port after you bitched about me assuming it was From. Besides that, I don't know what your problem is. GFWL sucks, but it's not set in stone that it's the only solution at this point. Keyboard + mouse is supported, but not recommended. If you haven't even played Dark Souls I don't understand why you'd take your Self-Righteous Entitled PC Gamer Moral Stand over the control issue. Nobody ever thought Dark Souls would be played with a keyboard + mouse when they made it, so of course it isn't the optimal method. "Why isn't it recommended I play this game on my USB Etchosketch! Shit port! Day 1 Pirate!"

This is just another case of PCtards being whiny as fuck. Any little tidbit that they don't like about the port, being done by someone who has no experience making PC games only after enough PC gamers asked him to, causes a shitstorm (not just here) and is used as an excuse to be morally obligated to pirate it. No wonder nobody wants to make games for the PC.

 

[Black]

OK, don't answer my question on who is making the port after you bitched about me assuming it was From.

I bitch at you assuming it was From because it's usually the publishers who make or outsource the port, not the developers.

GFWL sucks, but it's not set in stone that it's the only solution at this point.

IF they made MS make the PC port and signed a deal with them already then it's probably too late and is indeed set in stone. Notice the "IF", if you will, because that's what the first signs pointed to and even now they haven't denied it using GFWL.

Keyboard + mouse is supported, but not recommended.

I see you have severe lack of understanding what "supported, but not recommended" and "minimal support" mean. Once again, Resident Evil 4. Maybe you'll learn something.

Nobody ever thought Dark Souls would be played with a keyboard + mouse when they made it, so of course it isn't the optimal method. "Why isn't it recommended I play this game on my USB Etchosketch! Shit port! Day 1 Pirate!"

What the fuck are you projecting, dumb shit? I don't require them to make k+m superior to pad, I require them to do it well. Allow rebinding keys, don't make shit like "press press square to do X", and if you don't think that's unheard of in shitty ports, well, once again, RE4.

This is just another case of PCtards being whiny as fuck. Any little tidbit that they don't like about the port, being done by someone who has no experience making PC games only after enough PC gamers asked him to, causes a shitstorm (not just here) and is used as an excuse to be morally obligated to pirate it. No wonder nobody wants to make games for the PC.

Look at you. You've lost it. Now you're bringing piracy into this whole argument of yours, you assume PC fags wanted specifically From to do the port and think it's a fucking all-out PC vs console war. It's not, because "we" (whoever you decide "we" are) don't give a fuck about "you" and YOU especially, my delusional butthurt friend.

And please, do tell, what do you think this quote

The interface won’t be redone, keyboard and mouse support will be minimal so gamepads are heavily recommended, and there won’t be new graphics settings.

foreshadows. A well done port or a half-assed "let's make it as cheaply as possible" port?

 

[20 Eyes]

You still didn't answer the question, who is making the port? Is it From Software? I expect an apology if it is. Of course they're making it as cheaply and simply as possible. They weren't even going to make it at all and they're not experienced with PC development. PCtards are just bitching because they're not getting all their bells and whistles and nobody is redesigning substantial portions of the game specifically for them. But now I'm just repeating myself.

Also, you sound seriously upset about Resident Evil 4. I've never played the PC version, but it must have been awful for you to mention it as much as you do. I have no interest in replaying it on the PC, so your angst is going to remain unknown to me.

Now you're bringing piracy into this whole argument of yours

Because piracy isn't a problem at all. From Software is going to be seriously butthurt if nobody buys this after being led to believe it's worth the trouble, and I'm going to be butthurt if it means they don't bother importing Dark Souls 2. I guarantee the torrents will be heavily leeched regardless of anything else. "But I'm a PC Gamer and it's my right to download the game for free and play it for 50 hours to find out if I like it! Then, if you're lucky, maybe I'll consider buying it when I see it 75% off on Steam..."

you assume PC fags wanted specifically From to do the port

Listen to how entitled you sound. "Make us a port of your game! Make sure you hire someone else to do it!"

You're lucky you're getting the game at all.

I don't require them to make k+m superior to pad, I require them to do it well. Allow rebinding keys, don't make shit like "press press square to do X"

I'd expect the game to play awkwardly on k+m regardless of how 'well' they do it and whether or not they allow the rebinding of keys. But again, you're just making me repeat myself.

I see you have severe lack of understanding what "supported, but not recommended" and "minimal support" mean.

Well what does it mean, specifically in this case? Please delve into the specifics on how Dark Souls: PC Edition's keyboard + mouse support will work. Again, you're running your mouth about something you don't know anything about.

 

[Metro]

Console apologists gonna apologize.

 

[Cassidy]

You're lucky you're getting the game at all.

You're writing like a PR drone now. I'm sick of the "Gamers feel way too entitled if they don't suck up to day 0 dlc and shitty ports" bullshit while these dicks do things that in any other market would ensue class-action lawsuits because their cattle-like consumers are ready to take up anything in the ass being the drooling retards they are. GFWL? No problem awesum man u need a gamepad OLOLOLOL. I bet you'd never mind if a poorly made PC to console port practically obliged you to buy a console keyboard too, right?

Fanboys never change. Only the source of their blind worship do.

 

[Metro]

Agreed. Seriously, fuck that argument. These companies are in business to turn a profit -- they aren't making a PC version out of the goodness of their hearts or as a favor.