From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[Lyric Suite]

So what happens when Sony discontinues the PS3? They don't seem to be interested in backward compatibility.

 

[Nikaido]

They seem to be pushing for online streaming service where you don't actually own anything. A lot of dev like doing "hd remakes" of old games or just port them for double dipping too.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Remember that looks aren't just graphics but also art design, tiling and architecture. That may explain his position.

Right, and i think this game's design is very well done in all three respects. I would also add animation, which is something many people tend to ignore, which is also good and part of the reason the combat flows so nicely.

I'm currently going though Anor Londo (which looks breathtaking with the DSfix tweaks), sort of stuck because of the two Silver Knight archers. So far i really enjoyed the fighting, the level design and the visuals. The style is a bit excessive, which is usually a problem with Japanese art (and a lot of modern western art at this point), but this is not a big deal for a game like this. I think all in all i really like the architecture the most, followed by the variety of the visuals used, since every area has its own distinctive look.

I find the RPG part of this game to be a bit simplistic, but not in a way that detracts from the game. Its all about the combat, the exploration, and the dying. Character building is just a way to engage those aspects from different angles and it is probably for the best that it isn't overtly complex, and since i'm not playing online the fact certain things aren't very well balanced (starting with resistance being sort of a useless stat from what i can see), even a gimped build can be fun since you are just testing yourself against the game.

Hidetaka Miyazaki, you have earned the Lyric Suite seal of approval.

I still hate consoles though.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Also, what about convents? They mostly seem to be online related, not sure if they do anything for offline play.

Since the game is not clear about the benefits before you join and leaving incurs penalties, save yourself the frustration and check what they do here

 

[Jasede]

We'll fix that once we get you to play all the console greats, I think.

But even then you'd only like the games, not the medium (though one could argue that's a bit like liking the Mona Lisa and hating oil paintings)


The animations are amazing. This game is a prime example of the key to making a great game: all things have to build on each other. Every detail, every word of writing, every single animation, every enemy, every encounter, every area - all of those things share a common theme and build upon one another. This game isn't like PS:T where it's greater than the sum of its parts, this is a materialistic great, where every moving part is beautiful and together they form a clockwork that simply works.

Also, despite RPG-genre bitching, I'd be more than happy to classify the game as an action or arcade game rather than an RPG when pressed, but RPG definitions are so fluid it's pointless to argue them in the first place. (Exactly why we argue what an RPG is for a dozen years)

 

[dnf]

Also, despite RPG-genre bitching, I'd be more than happy to classify the game as an action or arcade game rather than an RPG when pressed, but RPG definitions are so fluid it's pointless to argue them in the first place. (Exactly why we argue what an RPG is for a dozen years)

Did you one credit Dark Souls?

One underrated thing in DS is that you can play footbal with some ragdoll corpses.

 

[Jasede]

Others have but no, even though I like the game a lot, I didn't play it enough to. You know, part of me really wishes there was a different ending for not kindling any bonfires. There should be.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Also, what about convents? They mostly seem to be online related, not sure if they do anything for offline play.

Since the game is not clear about the benefits before you join and leaving incurs penalties, save yourself the frustration and check what they do here

So basically only the Chaos Covenant does anything for single player game. Will keep that in mind.

 

[Raghar]

Also Gravelord covenant. That big sword is nice. But only Chaos covenant gives something more after few ranks.

 

[toroid]

I find the RPG part of this game to be a bit simplistic, but not in a way that detracts from the game. Its all about the combat, the exploration, and the dying. Character building is just a way to engage those aspects from different angles and it is probably for the best that it isn't overtly complex, and since i'm not playing online the fact certain things aren't very well balanced (starting with resistance being sort of a useless stat from what i can see), even a gimped build can be fun since you are just testing yourself against the game.

Try playing through as STR build, DEX build, INT build, etc., focusing on your primary stat while keeping your SL very low - only raising secondary stats slightly to meet minimum requirements for weapons. This adds a whole new layer of challenge to the game, mostly restricting you to a single class and forcing you to rely upon your knowledge of the game and its mechanics to succeed. It's so much fun to have to rely upon your knowledge of the game and make difficult decisions about how to best progress with a low SL character.

Gimped builds don't really exist in single player. You can always level up your weaker stats. It's mostly in pvp where poorly allocated stat points will actively work against you, because of the the way matchmaking works.

Also, most of the covenants do offer interesting rank-up rewards. But yeah, they require doing either co-op or pvp stuff.
(Personally I can't imagine playing this without being online. It would feel so empty and rapeless.)


Have you begun to see through the cryptic obfuscation and minimalist presentation yet to piece together the lore and story? It's in this area that the game holds your hand the least..
I have around 700 hours in this game (very little invading and co-op) and I still notice new details in the gameplay and story presentation occasionally, and continue to have realizations about story elements that I never had before.

sort of stuck because of the two Silver Knight archers.

Try dashing through.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I think i may be near the end. Just killed the Four Kings (after MUCH laboring), still need to go to the Tomb of the Giants, the Demon Ruins and the Archives. I also see some additional content which i guess i can do right after i've cleared all the main areas, before putting all the souls in the Lordsvessel.

Current build is 22 VIT, 40 END, 34 STR and 40 DEX. Working to get to 40 STR and at least 30 END. So basically a pure fighting build, no magic shenanigans and just a bow for ranged (which so far i've haven't used all that much. Just in Sen's Fortress i needed to snipe some of those lizards because they made the traps too difficult).

Right now i got all the Elite Knight Armor to 9 and the claymore to 14. I also got the Giant armor full set + giant halbert if i want to try a different style, but even with the Havel ring and 40 END i still go over 50% burden, which makes me slow as fuck, but with the poise ring plus the hefty bonus from the armor i feel pretty solid. I also got the Havel set but it feels a bit cheesy to me.

At any rate, i see no reason to take this character in NG+, since it seems there's no where to go after i get to SL 100 or so. Will probably make a pure casting build for maximum contrast after this.

 

[toroid]

Did you ever return to the Undead Asylum?

 

[Gozma]

Yeah NG+ in DaS1 at least is totally worthless, nothing interesting happens. If you want to play more start over and play a different build or do an SL1 game.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Did you ever return to the Undead Asylum?

Yeah. And yes, also learned about it from reading something unrelated. Took me an hour of game time to figure out how to get there though. I kept looking for the nest nearby the crow, and then i accidentally saw the opening while going up on the elevator and suddenly this dunce hat appeared on top of my head. Ho, game you.

Yeah NG+ in DaS1 at least is totally worthless, nothing interesting happens. If you want to play more start over and play a different build or do an SL1 game.

Difficulty increase doesn't make it more interesting?

Frankly, i'm going to start over just because i'm sick of this character if for no other reason. So as soon as i kill the last boss i'll re-roll.

Of course, if i do take him to NG+ i suppose a good path would be to raise attunement and get into pyromancy. He's just so adept at melee though that adding magic damage seems redundant.

 

[Gozma]

The difficulty doesn't actually increase until almost the end of the replay because having a powered up character with endgame weapons more than compensates for the numerical buffs the enemies get. The only thing that I think would be notably different/harder would be the Four Kings fight.

 

[toroid]

Did you ever return to the Undead Asylum?

Yeah.

Now I have to ask, did you figure out what the Peculiar Doll is for?

Spoiler

If not, then there's an entire non-dlc area you haven't seen yet.

 

[dnf]

Solid waifu in the peculiar doll area. Crossbreed Priscila

Jasede

 

[Jasede]

Not bad, for a girl, not bad.

 

[dnf]

Not bad, for a girl, not bad.

Im glad you didn't get butthurt about the crossbreed part

 

[Jasede]

Interspecies rules.

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

Wolf ring bro

Do you mean he has to equip it?

 

[Lyric Suite]

I think the game may be starting to get a little boring. Admittedly i've grinded souls a bit but i was about 80 when i got to Anor Londo and it was still very hard but now i'm in my 90s and everything is starting to feel like a breeze. I just killed the Centipede Demon without even being close to death. The areas i haven't done yet are Tomb of Giants, Lost Izalith, Duke's Archive's, Painted World, Crystal Caves and any of the additional content areas. I wonder if i should just start over and avoid any grinding before i spoil those areas for me by doing them at a too high a SL.

Also disappointing that NG+ is too easy. Wonder if ditching all my equipment would improve that experience.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I think the game may be starting to get a little boring. Admittedly i've grinded souls a bit but i was about 80 when i got to Anor Londo and it was still very hard but now i'm in my 90s and everything is starting to feel like a breeze. I just killed the Centipede Demon without even being close to death. The areas i haven't done yet are Tomb of Giants, Lost Izalith, Duke's Archive's, Painted World, Crystal Caves and any of the additional content areas. I wonder if i should just start over and avoid any grinding before i spoil those areas for me by doing them at a too high a SL.

Also disappointing that NG+ is too easy. Wonder if ditching all my equipment would improve that experience.

Generally speaking, the endgame is widely considered the weakest part of DaS, and Demon Ruins + Lost Izalith are easily the worst areas in the game. In terms of challenge, it does kinda peak at Anor Londo, although Duke's Archive can be pretty nasty, and Tomb of the Giants/New Londo have their own unique hazards.

That said, if your build is anywhere close to optimal, SL90 is way too high. The game is very much designed for suboptimal play in that sense - increasing stats all over the place to try out new weapons and ending up with a jack of all trades character. If you just pump Endurance to 40, Str/Dex to 40, and then Vitality, you can quite easily facetank even DLC bosses, especially with 20 instant-healing Flasks.

If you want to restart, I'd do the DLC first I think, should be a decent challenge either way. Painted World as well, the challenge there doesn't decrease so much with superior stats.

Finally, "challenge runs" can be very fun in this game, because of how easy it is to sequence break. Naked run is not that much difficult than playing normally. SL1 is quite a bit harder, but mostly utilizes the same skills. Speedruns below 2 hours are much more difficult.

 

[trym88]

Or you just finish the game, start dark souls 2 + Crown-DLCs, burn all bonfire ascetics at the beginning and play on NG+8 with covenant of champions and no grinding. (this time without reading anything about the game). If that's still too easy you can also play naked with bare fists of course (and don't forget to start as a deprived with no items). You should also buy that ring at the starting city which gets you detected easier by enemies (but don't use it for bosses).

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Eh, I think just playing DaS2 normally with the Champions Covenant is challenging enough, especially since a lot of the stuff that could make DaS1 trivial was fixed in that game. I, for one, certainly got my ass kicked in DaS2, starting as Deprived with that covenant.