From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[praetor]

nah, if there's one thing that's consistent in the Souls series, is the utter incompetence of the programmers. fuck, the average local university drop out is better than their whole shit-tier netcode team put together. their netcode is worse than their games are good. mindboggling

 

[Gozma]

GGPO for Dark Souls. I have no idea how people get anything out of the PvP honestly, it's like they're using MMORPG style netcode where spatial positioning is kinda "whatever, close enough" for a hitbox/hurtbox spatial action game. Then combine that with 1HKO gameplay to maximize the jank.

 

[Kanedias]

I love PvP because not all matches are laggy, and you can usually compensate for it. You do get some matches were you can't do anything about it, but I tend to laugh it off.

Earlier today I hit this guy who was about to swing his great club, I hit him twice, and it did the blocking noises and he took chip damage as if he had blocked, and killed me with his own attack (which didn't get interrupted). He bows, and when the animation is about to end, he randomly dies and his corpse falls where mine was. I can't even get mad at this stuff, hahaha.

Invading is vastly inferior to arena. The BoB arena is amazing, and red invasions are awful: there's a reason Dark Souls PvP streamers like Peeve and company are all doing blue invasions instead of red ones.

It's sad that every covenant works so well in this game, with the exception of reds, because red invasions are extremely rare, and this causes the Way of Blue to be 100% meaningless, and kills an entire side of the blues (a side that was supposed to be their main thing, too). I kept playing my mage and I still didn't get a single red invasion. NG+, 45 hours played.

 

[Gozma]

I'm pretty sure what bothers me is not freak lag spike stuff but just the reality of constant latency and the decisions they made about how to handle priority of stuff. Like I play fighting games online and it's common procedure to let you see how bad the connection is gonna be before you accept a game. The good ones also use GGPO-style rollback netcode that lets you simulate offline latency pretty effectively by chopping off/speeding up animations dynamically to coordinate the experience of players. Or stuff like RTS just gives all commands a bunch of inherent input delay and in multiplayer it chops off input delay to coordinate between multiple players.

In DS the opponent you see on the screen is really an indeterminate quantum cloud of all the places he might be in a second and a half.

 

[DragoFireheart]

nah, if there's one thing that's consistent in the Souls series, is the utter incompetence of the programmers. fuck, the average local university drop out is better than their whole shit-tier netcode team put together. their netcode is worse than their games are good. mindboggling

Obsidian Entertainment.

I'm pretty sure what bothers me is not freak lag spike stuff but just the reality of constant latency and the decisions they made about how to handle priority of stuff. Like I play fighting games online and it's common procedure to let you see how bad the connection is gonna be before you accept a game. The good ones also use GGPO-style rollback netcode that lets you simulate offline latency pretty effectively by chopping off/speeding up animations dynamically to coordinate the experience of players. Or stuff like RTS just gives all commands a bunch of inherent input delay and in multiplayer it chops off input delay to coordinate between multiple players.

In DS the opponent you see on the screen is really an indeterminate quantum cloud of all the places he might be in a second and a half.

Quantum Souls!

 

[Elwro]

So I take no one plays the paid sparring matches? Are there any other uses for Tokens of Fidelity?

 

[felipepepe]

BTW, anyone else thinks that they probably nerfed the Rotten fight? I bet those statues were shooting poison as well at some point in development...

 

[Invictus]

Could be felipepe, but it would have felt cheap to have the status spewing poison while you have to dodge the firespots plus that monstrosity's cleaver...plus they seemed to let go of all their sadistic edge on NG+ so why not include that there?

 

[DragoFireheart]

BTW, anyone else thinks that they probably nerfed the Rotten fight? I bet those statues were shooting poison as well at some point in development...

Those statues never shot poison in the boss room of the Rotten.

But if they were going to do that originally like you hinted at, it would have been pretty cruel...

 

[Malpercio]

So, what's the general consensus on this DS2? I've been avoid threads as I wait for the PC version.

 

[felipepepe]

So, what's the general consensus on this DS2? I've been avoid threads as I wait for the PC version.

Good game, but not as good as DaS 1.

 

[Invictus]

Yeah not as good but better than 95% of the other games out there

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Dark Souls 2 seems a bit better than it's predecessor in the ways that I value more.

Level design has taken a huge leap forward in terms of quality. Ambushes and environmental hazards abound and are well thought out. Treasure is cleverly hidden and worth seeking out, contra the first game in which ~40% of treasure spots were trolling. Any sort of level gimmicks are much better done than in DkS1 and the ones with more potential for annoyance don't overstay their welcome. While the darkness in the Tomb of the Giants (DkS1) became annoying fast, things like the Shaded Woods in DkS2 are brief enough to not invite ire. World design isn't as interesting, but I'm content with the vastly improved level design that keeps subsequent playthroughs and PvP fresh.

Enemies are a lot better designed. AI doesn't fold to fast roll/move plus backstab cheesing a la DkS1 and scripts/designs are in place to trigger more ambushes and Xv1 scenarios; fighting many foes 1on1 isn't always going to happen. They also use feints to catch the player unaware and guard breaks to punish turtles. And the series tradition of a multitude of enemies continues. The bestiary is quite vast.

Bosses are generally good...there's scarcely few mandatory fights of shit quality/design a la Capra Demon, Ceaseless Discharge, or Bed of Chaos. There's only one truly bad mandatory boss fight, and the other two poorly made fights are optional (one of which carries no reward whatsoever). However, there's nothing as good as the final boss of Dark Souls 1, nothing that hits as hard (emotionally) as the bosses of Darkroot Garden or 5-3's boss in Demons Souls, and nothing that matches the intensity of a certain Abysswalker. DkS2 trades the lofty highs for an elevated average quality of boss fight, mechanically speaking. There won't be as many extremely memorable fights in the good way, but few will stick out as awful timewasters.

Combat is generally more interesting. While I bemoan the reduction of i-frames in the dodge and the inability to link certain attacks together, the core mechanics seem a lot more interesting. Things like the guard-break, power-stance, and a bevy of unique weapons make combat a lot more colorful in PvE. PvP is greatly improved by the crippling of the backstab maneuver, being able to cancel windup animations into backsteps/dodges, and the greater emphasis put upon stamina management due to a heavy reduction in stamina regeneration. Player versus player combat has been generally enjoyable, matchmaking quibbles aside.

The fact that New Game Plus has meaningful enemy/boss/item changes makes a second playthrough with a character actually worthwhile. Far improved over DeS/DkS1 terribad NG+.

The only place where DkS2 flounders is in the storyline and backstory. It's generally scattered and borders on incomplete. You really don't have any sense of direction, purpose, or place. Gameworld lore is not nearly as swell interwoven into the experience as DkS1, coming off as disjointed and mostly extraneous. It's hard to really go into more detail without major spoilers but suffice to say, this was probably the most disappointing aspect of DkS2.

 

[Invictus]

If you took the ambiance, tone and straightfoward design in both layout and art of Demons Souls (plus the mana system)
The music, boss fights, world interconectivity, memorable NPCs and lore depth of Dark Souls (as well as level up mechanics)
And mixed in with the weighter combat system, enemy diversity, respawn mechanics, health mechanics, upgrade system and level variety of Dark Souls 2
You could come up with the perfect Souls game
If you notice I actualy had more favorite mechanics and concepts from DS2 but overall my favorite would be Demons Souls, although I recognize Dark Souls is a better more refined game but I am eternaly greatful for DS2; just look at venerable series like TES or whatever shit Square Enix comes up with nowadays...they could have their very own "dark" fantasy juggernaut in Vagrant Story too

 

[praetor]

Level design has taken a huge leap forward in terms of quality. Ambushes and environmental hazards abound and are well thought out.

lot's of those "environmental hazards" are just annoyingly stupid, retarded, cheap, boring and shit (yes, poison statues. one of the few if not only enemy i'd be glad if it stopped respawning... and it's one of the few if not the only that doesn't)

Treasure is cleverly hidden and worth seeking out, contra the first game in which ~40% of treasure spots were trolling.

i'm not sure what you mean by "were trolling"? there's much more "trolling" in DaS2 where to get some treasures you pretty much have to die, or homeward out. that's hardly an improvement, imo. as for "cleverly" done stuff, there's barely any shortcuts, so they got considerably lazier and just put bonfires everywhere. the encounter design may be better (i neither agree nor disagree), but the level layouts (bar a few exceptions) aren't.

Any sort of level gimmicks are much better done than in DkS1 and the ones with more potential for annoyance don't overstay their welcome. While the darkness in the Tomb of the Giants (DkS1) became annoying fast, things like the Shaded Woods in DkS2 are brief enough to not invite ire.

The Gutter is the same, if not worse (i'd say worse) than TotG. at least in DaS1 you had the light hat

Enemies are a lot better designed. AI doesn't fold to fast roll/move plus backstab cheesing a la DkS1 and scripts/designs are in place to trigger more ambushes and Xv1 scenarios; fighting many foes 1on1 isn't always going to happen. They also use feints to catch the player unaware and guard breaks to punish turtles. And the series tradition of a multitude of enemies continues. The bestiary is quite vast.

i didn't really find the enemies in DaS2 any less susceptible to BS cheesing than in DeS or DaS1, it's just that the BS mechanics are a bit different. they use feints? who does? i must have missed that. but their use of guard breaks is definitely a welcome addition (too bad only a handful use them). and while the bestiary is vast, it's also full of cheap shit (especially in NG+ where almost everyone has thousands upon thousands of health)

Bosses are generally good...there's scarcely few mandatory fights of shit quality/design a la Capra Demon, Ceaseless Discharge, or Bed of Chaos. There's only one truly bad mandatory boss fight, and the other two poorly made fights are optional (one of which carries no reward whatsoever). However, there's nothing as good as the final boss of Dark Souls 1, nothing that hits as hard (emotionally) as the bosses of Darkroot Garden or 5-3's boss in Demons Souls, and nothing that matches the intensity of a certain Abysswalker. DkS2 trades the lofty highs for an elevated average quality of boss fight, mechanically speaking. There won't be as many extremely memorable fights in the good way, but few will stick out as awful timewasters.

don't know what's so wrong with Capra, but Old Iron King, Rat Authority, Ancient Dragon, Vendrick, Giant Lord are plenty shit and in the same category as CD and BoC, with plenty others being excruciatingly boring (NG Flexile, Dragonrider(s), Dragonslayer, Demon of Song, Magus, Covetous, Skellie lords [with the most hilarious music... half of it sounds like a christmas jingle], Guardian dragon). there's more bosses, but the average quality is lower

Combat is generally more interesting. While I bemoan the reduction of i-frames in the dodge and the inability to link certain attacks together, the core mechanics seem a lot more interesting. Things like the guard-break, power-stance, and a bevy of unique weapons make combat a lot more colorful in PvE. PvP is greatly improved by the crippling of the backstab maneuver, being able to cancel windup animations into backsteps/dodges, and the greater emphasis put upon stamina management due to a heavy reduction in stamina regeneration. Player versus player combat has been generally enjoyable, matchmaking quibbles aside.

yes, BS fishing is not a valid tactic anymore, but there's plenty of other bullshit that took its place. plus, as you pointed out in a previous post of yours, it's way too lethal. it's just a different flavour of broken shit (i'd say even shittier because now every other thing is so broken it will 1-2 shot you, melee-only is utterly unviable compared to casters, so matches will last well under a minute leaving little time for strategy/tactics, unlike DaS1)

The fact that New Game Plus has meaningful enemy/boss/item changes makes a second playthrough with a character actually worthwhile. Far improved over DeS/DkS1 terribad NG+.

that's the only thing i fully agree with and it's a welcome addition (though not that well implemented)

The only place where DkS2 flounders is in the storyline and backstory. It's generally scattered and borders on incomplete. You really don't have any sense of direction, purpose, or place. Gameworld lore is not nearly as swell interwoven into the experience as DkS1, coming off as disjointed and mostly extraneous. It's hard to really go into more detail without major spoilers but suffice to say, this was probably the most disappointing aspect of DkS2.

i disagree. i wish it was the only problem with the game. there's lots of idiotic shit in it that would've been OK by itself, but they "interact" with other mechanics/problems to make them even more shit. f.e. the game takes ages to load, and you have to constantly fucking warp everywhere, of particular note being the massively idiotic decision to level up at NPC. then twinklie/boner stuff requires insane amounts of it to upgrade to +5, you cannot buy infinite (or even decent) amounts, you can farm but a) enemies stop respawning, b) you have to use bonfire ascetics (that you will also farm!) so the farming becomes more and more time consuming and boring. and then the drop rates are as retarded, if not more so, than in DaS1/DeS, but now the enemies stop respawning... not to mention they gave random drops to one-off black phantoms! (just a few examples of the idiocy that permeates the design of this game)

it's a great game, better than most, it's just riddled with such idiocy that i, personally, cannot say it reaches the quality of it's predecessor, although a lot of the broken and retarded stuff in it could be easily patched, so we'll see...

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Twinkie/Boner max upgrade req is 15 pieces, which is basically NOTHING AT ALL given how much easier farming is in DkS2. It takes me literally 20 minutes to get 20 Boners and Twinkies (+320k Souls).

 

[Kanedias]

If by the treasures that you basically "have to die" to get you mean the lava rocks in the Iron Keep, I picked them up without taking damage.

If you stack a Flame Quartz Ring with Flash Sweat (if your build has no Attunement you can equip the Southern Ritual Band) and you roll through water pots or use the water from the Pharros lockstone, you get enough fire resist that you can completely negate the damage by using an Elizabeth Mushroom or Lifegems.

yes, BS fishing is not a valid tactic anymore, but there's plenty of other bullshit that took its place. plus, as you pointed out in a previous post of yours, it's way too lethal. it's just a different flavour of broken shit (i'd say even shittier because now every other thing is so broken it will 1-2 shot you, melee-only is utterly unviable compared to casters, so matches will last well under a minute leaving little time for strategy/tactics, unlike DaS1)

Casters are absolute garbage in this game. Buffed melee weapons is where its at, the actual spells are all easily dodgeable except homing crystal soulmass, but nothing is on the league of Dark Bead / Pursuers. Also with decent defenses you mitigate a lot of damage, I take a lot of hits to kill because of this. It sucks that you basically require Great Magic Barrier in order to deal with the high damage of other buff builds, but once you improve your defenses damage gets toned down a lot and fights get much more enjoyable. I rather deal with this than with the stupidly broken backstab system from Dark Souls 1.

 

[praetor]

^yeah, by "casters" (but even pure casters are way better and more viable than they were in DaS1) i meant buff builds, bad choice of words on my part. nothing in the league of Dark bead? you mean to say shit like Great Resonant Soul and Forbidden Sun don't exist in your copy of the game? does the Affinity spell also not exist (slightly weaker pursuers that tracks a bit less, although this time there's no silver talisman)? powerstanced mundane avelyns? "you can mitigate a lot of damage, you just have to get decent defences" is barely different than "git gud" and just means playing every time with the exact same set-up (GMB, and the best resistance armour + rings... so like pre-dwgr-nerf DaS1 where the best setup [giants+mom] was used by almost everyone), just give it time for the brokenness of it to catch up in the community and then you'll see almost everyone sport the same shit. yeah, just like in DaS1

come on, the game is chock-full of broken shit, just like the previous 2. and the netcode is just as shit (if not more so. just everyone's info: the game is still P2P, dedicated servers are only for matchmaking and news/info and other statistics), and the soul memory matchmaking is the stupidest idea (ok, not the idea, but the implementation) they had since they started as a company.

and i know the "tricks" to get the shit on lava. i had something like 700-800 flame defence (quarz ring, sweat, fire def armour, rolled through water pots, chugged estus and lifegems, and still could barely get chaos storm before i died) and still kicked the bucket

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Forbidden Sun is piss-easy to dodge, as are Resonant Souls (no homing). If you seriously get hit by either, git gud.

Also, Chaos Storm is perfectly gettable with 1200 hp and Flame Quartz +1 ring and not that specialized equipment. So again, git gud (I for one suspect you didn't realize you can just jump down on the lava rocks and double-chug Estus prematurely due to the heal being delayed).

 

[praetor]

dark bead/pursuers is just as easy to dodge (if not more, 'cause for bead you have to be close)

i for one suspect you're dumb as fuck 'cause that's exactly what i was doing (triple estus chug, a radiant lifegem, plus everything else). and you're telling me to "git gud"?! the motherfucker who grinded for dozens upon dozens of SL in the motherfucking Burg to make the game easier dares to speak of "git gud"?! no wonder you're such a sad, depressed, lonely individual

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

dark bead/pursuers is just as easy to dodge (if not more, 'cause for bead you have to be close)

i for one suspect you're dumb as fuck 'cause that's exactly what i was doing (triple estus chug, a radiant lifegem, plus everything else). and you're telling me to "git gud"?! the motherfucker who grinded for dozens upon dozens of SL in the motherfucking Burg to make the game easier dares to speak of "git gud"?! no wonder you're such a sad, depressed, lonely individual

There's a bit of a problem there when you make that accusation, but at the same time cannot handle the same things the accused found trivially easy. So yea, you probably should just git gud.

 

[felipepepe]

don't know what's so wrong with Capra

It's a fight made to be won by exploit. Start fight, dogde and run to the stars, kill dogs, then keep jumping on Capra's head. Seriously, it's really bad design-wise.

Bacl to DaS2, there are some decisions that I really hate. Warping to Majula every time to level-up was a retarded move made to give some importance to a "vital" NPC that no one cares about due bad story telling. They also removed a lot of the C&C by making NPCs easily donate their entire armor set, not being necessary to kill them for the assassin sub-quest, and with those pathetic NPCs graves that avoid any responsibility even if you kill them.

And the game having a more even level of bosses is ok, but having such a shitty last boss kills any sense of achievement. In DaS and DeS, you beat the last bosses and go "YES, I WON!" DaS 2 was just "this can't be the last boss, I one-shot it so easily... it has to have more...at least in NG+... please?"

 

[dunno lah]

don't know what's so wrong with Capra

It's a fight made to be won by exploit. Start fight, dogde and run to the stars, kill dogs, then keep jumping on Capra's head. Seriously, it's really bad design-wise.

Bacl to DaS2, there are some decisions that I really hate. Warping to Majula every time to level-up was a retarded move made to give some importance to a "vital" NPC that no one cares about due bad story telling. They also removed a lot of the C&C by making NPCs easily donate their entire armor set, not being necessary to kill them for the assassin sub-quest, and with those pathetic NPCs graves that avoid any responsibility even if you kill them.

And the game having a more even level of bosses is ok, but having such a shitty last boss kills any sense of achievement. In DaS and DeS, you beat the last bosses and go "YES, I WON!" DaS 2 was just "this can't be the last boss, I one-shot it so easily... it has to have more...at least in NG+... please?"

King Wannabe Allant was not a "YES, I WON!" final boss though.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

honestly I found the DaS2 final boss a lot harder than Gwyn

False King Allant is still the best "final" boss of the series, though. Cursing orbs are cool, but that awesome level-draining grab attack was the proper level of "oh fuck" that a final boss in a Souls game feels like it should inspire. Gwyn is second for the great music and atmosphere - I found him really easy but, instead of spoiling it, I found that made the fight quite poignant in a gay hitler way.

 

[felipepepe]

King Wannabe Allant was not a "YES, I WON!" final boss though.

But you just beated Fake King Allant 5 minutes before it. The real one is there more as a plot device than a real boss.