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From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

Malpercio

Arcane
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
1,534
Ok, just finished it. Man, what a huge let down. I got completely aimless from midgame forward, without even knowing why I was playing. I mean, yeah "Find souls, find bigger souls, find the king" but so what ? Ive found the old man and slayed him, and then what ? Ancient dragon who ? Big Giants what ? Sigh. The narrative in the series is already minimalist, but in this game its non-existent. Really, the game is trying hard to make the plot sound all smart and ambiguous when in truth there is no plot at all! Sure, there were mchanical improvements since the first game (like combat and multiplayer), but the world and narrative aspect is completely botched. I was thinking bout beginning a NG, but nah Im done, its not worth it.

My grade for this game: 6.5/10
(my grade for the first one: 10/10)

...and now Im curious to see how Demon Souls is.

lol DS1 revisionist.

DS1 was the same shit, most of the "narrative" was people on youtube making shit up using some vague info or plot points to back-up their theories.

What's the next, should we also rationalize DS1 last areas?

Oh man, Lost Izalith, such an awesome area! Nothing in DS2 compares!
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
That's one thing the hour long critique video was spot-on for; the team mistook the obscure nature of the lore of DS 1 as "what people want" and inappropriately modeled the current game's story on that model. The story in the last game was obvious with the first 2 non-hostile things you encounter telling you "go ring the bells; one is up and one is down" at which point a giant penis literally springs from the earth and says "get the bowl; fill the bowl -- k now kill the king to be the king".

The current game's prose is on par with a middle school poem by some emo kid with black Xs over his/her hands. "Are you the new monarch? or just another pawn?" GUESS WHATS GONNA HAPPEN

That's not really a problem with the story itself, up until you meet Vendrick at least. "Go ring two bells so something happens" is as vague a plot hook as you can imagine, and that's all you have until you kill Quelaag, which for a new player is at least 10+ hours into the game, realistically a lot more. In comparison, in DaS2 you not only have an intro which explains your condition and motivation in some detail (as opposed to a lore infodump in DaS1), but the Emerald Herald (who you have to talk to, unlike the Crestfallen Warrior in DaS1) lays it out to you in no uncertain terms. Curse bothering you? Worried about losing your mind and going Hollow? No problem bro, you just need to meet Vendrick. You'll need to find these four great souls to achieve that, so get to it. It only becomes vague and confusing after you get the King's Ring (although not directionless, really, as EH wastes no time telling you what to do next).

The real problem is that in order to even have this kind of storytelling, a game needs a very strong sense of place, which DaS2 spectacularly fails at. The actual story content and what you're told isn't that important, what matters is the world feeling real and giving context and meaning to your actions.

The other problem is that the developers have bit off more than they could chew and chose a theme for their story that's very difficult to realize. If you want your story to be about fate and memory (and the loss of memory), you need to work hard in order to give meaning to the protagonist's actions, or it comes out as nihilistic. Incidentally, this is something PST succeeds admirably at. DaS2 doesn't.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
2,234
i sometimes wonder if some players even speak with other npcs than Emerald slut and Lenningrast:lol:

Fucking Chancellor Wellager pretty much spoils you everything that happened before your arrival in Drangleic and that fucking cat commnets on every big action in game including killing certain bosses.

The only difference is that fucking Fraampt tells you exactly which bosses you have to kill after obtaining lords Vessel(and than you see a shitty cutscene of disappearing yellow magical barriers :lol: ) while Emerald whore limits herself to vague "seek the king-> nope.jpg you are to weak->gain some exp ->kill in the meantime 4 big baddies".

Des still has the best lore/story/atmosphere even if it is the shittiest game gameplay wise:smug:
 

subotaiy

Cipher
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
524
Location
Romania
Ok, just finished it. Man, what a huge let down. I got completely aimless from midgame forward, without even knowing why I was playing. I mean, yeah "Find souls, find bigger souls, find the king" but so what ? Ive found the old man and slayed him, and then what ? Ancient dragon who ? Big Giants what ? Sigh. The narrative in the series is already minimalist, but in this game its non-existent. Really, the game is trying hard to make the plot sound all smart and ambiguous when in truth there is no plot at all! Sure, there were mchanical improvements since the first game (like combat and multiplayer), but the world and narrative aspect is completely botched. I was thinking bout beginning a NG, but nah Im done, its not worth it.

My grade for this game: 6.5/10
(my grade for the first one: 10/10)

...and now Im curious to see how Demon Souls is.
Agree, except the combat is actually worse due to various reasons.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
Imo the story in DS2 is not very interesting not because it's obfuscated (it's not), but because it's simply... not very interesting. It's about a king who triedhard and crazy queen and giants killing everyone. Oh and some experiments with souls, whatever. While in DS1 it's about whole world battling with it's own emminent enthropy which comes just from the nature of how the world was created. No matter how you look at it, DS1 just feels a bit heavier, don't you think? And being undead and people turning hollow makes more sense thematically in a world which eats itself than a DS2 world which seems to have more lore about politics. I know that everyone tried to battle the curse in DS2 too but it just doesn't feel as important.

And the writing itself is... kinda poor, you can replace every line with "ancient legend says but today nobody knows but who knows maybe it's true maybe not".
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
i sometimes wonder if some players even speak with other npcs than Emerald slut and Lenningrast:lol:

Fucking Chancellor Wellager pretty much spoils you everything that happened before your arrival in Drangleic and that fucking cat commnets on every big action in game including killing certain bosses.

The only difference is that fucking Fraampt tells you exactly which bosses you have to kill after obtaining lords Vessel(and than you see a shitty cutscene of disappearing yellow magical barriers :lol: ) while Emerald whore limits herself to vague "seek the king-> nope.jpg you are to weak->gain some exp ->kill in the meantime 4 big baddies".

Des still has the best lore/story/atmosphere even if it is the shittiest game gameplay wise:smug:

I think there's a valid complaint there, it's just not about NPC exposition in particular. In DaS1, once you talk to Frampt, everything becomes intuitively clear. Frampt says that you need to "Succeed the Great Lord Gwyn, link the Fire, cast away the Dark, and undo the curse of the Undead" - undoing the curse is obviously what you'd want, but the other stuff is a bit abstract. However, intuitively, seeing the decaying, ruined world around you, you understand that what you're meant to do is reverse this process. If this world is governed by Gwyn, then he has failed, and that's why you need to succeed him. Just from exploring the environment, it's obvious that something had gone terribly wrong, and the game's central question is whether the Age of Fire is worth saving, or if it's better to let it die and begin something new.

Not much of this kind of context exists in DaS2, which is why it feels aimless, even though you're actually told a lot and directed quite firmly.

It's actually the same with DeS, except in that game the developers seemed to have realized the problem, and threw in stuff like the mandatory Monumental exposition, world descriptions on archstones, and so forth, in an effort to remedy it. Also, DeS is thematically much more straightforward, focusing on power, the pursuit of it, and the lust for it, as catalysts for destruction and degeneration - men wanted more than they could have, now it's your job to fix their mess (becoming a power hungry demon yourself in the process, appropriately enough).
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
That's not really a problem with the story itself, up until you meet Vendrick at least. "Go ring two bells so something happens" is as vague a plot hook as you can imagine, and that's all you have until you kill Quelaag, which for a new player is at least 10+ hours into the game, realistically a lot more. In comparison, in DaS2 you not only have an intro which explains your condition and motivation in some detail (as opposed to a lore infodump in DaS1), but the Emerald Herald (who you have to talk to, unlike the Crestfallen Warrior in DaS1) lays it out to you in no uncertain terms. Curse bothering you? Worried about losing your mind and going Hollow? No problem bro, you just need to meet Vendrick. You'll need to find these four great souls to achieve that, so get to it. It only becomes vague and confusing after you get the King's Ring (although not directionless, really, as EH wastes no time telling you what to do next).

The real problem is that in order to even have this kind of storytelling, a game needs a very strong sense of place, which DaS2 spectacularly fails at. The actual story content and what you're told isn't that important, what matters is the world feeling real and giving context and meaning to your actions.

The other problem is that the developers have bit off more than they could chew and chose a theme for their story that's very difficult to realize. If you want your story to be about fate and memory (and the loss of memory), you need to work hard in order to give meaning to the protagonist's actions, or it comes out as nihilistic. Incidentally, this is something PST succeeds admirably at. DaS2 doesn't.

I think you and I agree but perhaps are choosing different words. Earlier in this thread (pages ago, now) one of my first comments was "I have no idea why I'm doing the things I'm doing; just finding new places and killing stuff."

It encapsulates the heart of the issue; it's not the story, it's not that NPCs don't actually give hints, its that none of it is done in a satisfactory way that actually gives the player any real sense of direction or motivation.

Vaguely related; does every fucking NPC have to have the creepy laugh?
 

Castanova

Prophet
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
2,949
Location
The White Visitation
I'm doing a fresh playthrough with a "quality" build designed to allow me to equip 99% of the weapons I find so I can try them all out. It's pretty fun. I think my first playthrough of the Souls games are always the least fun. I prefer knowing what items I want to get and what build I want to try and just getting there ASAP, outright skipping most of what I don't need in the process. You get so many souls just from boss fights that it doesn't even matter. Basically I rushed to the Pursuer fight so I could get the Drangleic set, then I rushed to get the BKH. BKH is pretty disappointing so far, though. Dark Souls had a better moveset imo.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
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Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
I would just like to point out that the video dude is wrong about From consciously choosing to make the story cryptic/minimalist and something that relies mostly on the players theorycrafting. It's more like that it's something they've been doing since forever now, with Armored Core series for example and having the added "benefit" of being mission-based so you not only have a cryptic/minimalist story but also one that jumps all over the place.
 

Gozma

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
2,951
I think my first playthrough of the Souls games are always the least fun.

The RPG stuff in the DS games is as obtuse as a mediocre '90s CRPG. You have all kinds of nonsensical, unpredictable breakpointing, most individual level-ups that don't qualify you for a particular new weapon or spell or something are only leading to some far-future build and have extremely marginal immediate impact, etc. The first playthrough is almost hazing as far as the RPG stuff goes.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,601
I think the biggest problem DS2 has is that it's story lacks depth. Sure, in DS1 the plot was simple as fuck, but everything had background. Stories about Seath betraying the dragons and researching immortality, about the witches of izalith being corrupted, about the fall of anor londo, about the knights going to the kiln, about new londo being sealed, etc.

DS2 doesn't have this kind of shit. Why the rat guardiians? Dunno LOL. Why the ruin sentinels? Why the lost sinner? Pretty much the only place they fleshed out was harvest valley/iron keep, which fit together, made sense, and told you some actual interesting background lore about a queen going crazy and a kingdom being destroyed as their Babel like construction sank into the ground and burst into flames. Sure, they give you the barest details like the duke experimenting to create monsters along the shaded woods route, but that tells you barely anything at all.

DS1 left certain things in the dark, but it didn't skimp on the story at all. It gave you lots of information, it was just spread out enough to leave stuff to your imagination. This time around the story is just tiny and underdeveloped.
 

Karellen

Arcane
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
327
So, I finally got around to finishing Dark Souls II (after getting sidetracked into cracking open a hundred or so Havel cans with the Malformed Skull in Belfry Sol), so I guess I can finally talk about it.

I think the big problem with the Dark Souls II narrative - as opposed to Dark Souls - is that it isn't all that well integrated with the game world. This is mainly because the game world itself isn't as interestingly put together. It's larger than that of the first Dark Souls, and technically involves greater freedom, but it lacks this kind of gradually revealed semantic coherence that the first Dark Souls had all over it. Ironically, the game improves massively once you reach Drangleic Castle, at which point the game becomes largely linear, but all the places are also more interesting in terms of narrative, difficulty and aesthetics.

There's a name for the way the first Dark Souls is put together, and it's "Metroidvania". Dark Souls II is more of an open world thing, and it doesn't work as well. What Dark Souls II lacks are tough mechanical limiters for the player's progress that you can overcome with exploration and strategy. The world of the first Dark Souls had more substantial difficulty jumps, between areas and a clearer sense of different equipment, strategies and such opening up new areas or giving you reasons to revisit old ones. This is what gives the game its structure. For instance, the Belfry Gargoyles are much easier once you find a smith to make you a decent weapon, while the fuckin' Capra Demon is much easier if you've got the Elite Knight set from Darkroot Garden. Then, once you venture down into the Depths, there's a good chance you'll get Cursed and suddenly you have a good reason to visit New Londo - you don't have to, but now you have a reason. Meanwhile, in the Undead Parish Andre will tell you that people go into the Darkroot Garden to seek the smith who makes divine weapons to help them in the Catacombs, which is a really nice hint; in the Catacombs, on the other hand, you'll find the Rite of Kindling, which is gamebreakingly awesome.

Basically, Dark Souls was more linear than the second game, but progress through the game actually feels more player-driven than DSII, precisely because it has better rewards for thoughtful exploration and a good sense that trying to understand how the world is put together actually helps you progress. The thing is, not only does this make the game itself more fun and rewarding, but in terms of narrative, it gives the game a lot of context and gives everything you do a particular sense of importance. That's what Dark Souls II lacks in the first half. You're told to go off to kill the Four Old Ones, but you learn a whole lot of nothing about them, and you gain nothing substantial, mechanically speaking, from doing so. The NPCs you meet mostly have no interest in them - not even Benhart and Lucatiel, who should be your peers. Shalquoir does tell you some things about them, but bizarrely, only after you're done killing them. Mostly, the NPCs tell you about themselves, not the world you're in.

In comparison, the NPCs in Dark Souls don't have more dialogue or anything, but they have more substantial goals, more interesting insights and more useful advice, all of which makes the world feel more coherent. The Catacombs feel like an important place because Reah and Petrus (and by extension, the entire Way of White) are invested in it, and Sen's Fortress and Anor Londo are made that much more epic because the likes of Siegmeyer, Solaire, Big Hat Logan and Lautrec are also on their way there. Kingseeker Frampt finally tells you clearly what's going on, but even without him, the presence of the other NPCs is enough to give the sense that there's a grand quest going on. The first game does lose steam after Anor Londo specifically because that was the high point of the quest, but then, you can't really blame the game that there's no way to top beating Ornstein and Smough and stepping into Gwynevere's chamber, because it's an astonishing climax and nothing in Dark Souls II comes even close. And even then, Oolacile is almost as epic as Anor Londo is, because the way it's embedded in the narrative is exciting and the boss fights with Artorias, Kalameet and Manus are dramatic enough to feel like you're fighting legendary heroes and monsters.

All that said, the problem with Dark Souls II may not be the lore. It's got a lot of interesting elements, nice ambiguities, subtle and less subtle links to the first game, and I'm sure that the theorycrafters will come up with a ton of interesting details in the world that will give a lot of meaning even to the boring early areas of the game. The problem is, the events of the actual game simply aren't as interesting as those in Dark Souls, because ultimately the way it's put together isn't as compelling, and as a result, it doesn't feel like the gloomy, yet epic quest that the first game was.
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
Imo the story in DS2 is not very interesting not because it's obfuscated (it's not), but because it's simply... not very interesting. It's about a king who triedhard and crazy queen and giants killing everyone. Oh and some experiments with souls, whatever. While in DS1 it's about whole world battling with it's own emminent enthropy which comes just from the nature of how the world was created. No matter how you look at it, DS1 just feels a bit heavier, don't you think? And being undead and people turning hollow makes more sense thematically in a world which eats itself than a DS2 world which seems to have more lore about politics. I know that everyone tried to battle the curse in DS2 too but it just doesn't feel as important.

And the writing itself is... kinda poor, you can replace every line with "ancient legend says but today nobody knows but who knows maybe it's true maybe not".

Yeah, DaS1 is primarily about the decline of Lordran. In reality, a lot of the mythology of that game very closely mirrors many actual ancient mythologies, both in terms of the metaphysics of creation (fire as an agent of creation, which is actually just an introduction of change into a static universe, something very common in origin myths), as well as the Age of Fire corresponding to the mythological Golden Age (well, more like the Heroic Age if we follow Hesiod). The world design really helps sell this idea, which is also why Anor Londo is such a pivotal area - it directly shows the glories past, which is what the player tries to bring back when they link the fire. In essence, the game tries very hard to portray the Age of Fire as something valuable, which then gives the player's actions meaning, as they either sacrifice themselves to prolong it, or reject it and begin a new era.

DaS2 has a problem with value. What exactly are we supposed to care about in this game? There's a great focus on memories, NPC going hollow and losing their identity, the old ones not even knowing their own names, forgotten and deserted locations whose purpose was twisted by the passage of time. But why should we care? It's not like we can really do anything. You don't even get to decide if you want to ascend the throne, and it's not clear at all whether doing so actually helps anyone in the long run. Ascend the throne, (presumably) link the fire, and what, some centuries later another guy will have to do it all again or the curse returns? Doesn't sound very appealing. That's why I said the game was nihilistic, nothing you do ultimately matters. You CAN make this kind of story work - Demon's Souls arguably succeeds, by being much more aesthetically consistent and focused. But DaS2 is too much of a theme park fantasy kitchensink to pull of the requisite atmosphere.

Brightstone cove is suitably fucked up, shame it seems so short.

I think it's an underrated area, and one of the few that actually sells the "weird forgotten place, collapsed under the weight of its own twisted legacy" concept they had going for a lot of the game. I think a location needs a certain amount of weird and out of place elements, which serve to make it feel more real just by being out of place. That's how I see the Magus & Congregation bossfight. Why are they there? No idea, really. Why is a Titanite Demon under Andre's workshop in Undead Parish? Same thing. Why does Ornifex have a workshop (really fucking creepy workshop by the way) next to giant spiders and basilisk? Who knows? Levels like Drangleic Castle or Iron Keep, for instance, lack this kind of variety, they're too neat and clean in their purpose.
 

Kanedias

Savant
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
574
I do not think the story lacks depth. Take the rats for example, you have the idyllic town of Majula which has this ominous pit where they throw everything unwanted, they basically funnel all the shit down there into where the Rats live and into the Gutter. On top of this you trespass into the Rat's kingdom, which is why they attack you. It makes sense that the Rats living in a place where they see everything the humans try to hide have a very low opinion on humans, plus they had a treaty that said humans would leave them alone, yet you're going into their territory.

And then in the Gutter/Black Gulch the Rotten tends to those statues that I believe may represent all the hollows they threw down the pit, maybe the ones that are part of him.

So yeah like always its a bunch of speculation but I don't believe it's that different from Dark Souls 1 lore, except that countless lore videos by the likes of Vaati and ENB have turned some of this sort of stuff into "common knowledge", so to speak.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,913
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
lol DS1 revisionist.

DS1 was the same shit, most of the "narrative" was people on youtube making shit up using some vague info or plot points to back-up their theories.

What's the next, should we also rationalize DS1 last areas?
I had written a ton of text here, but the last responses by Cowboy Moment , Damned Registrations , Karellen and Shadenuat managed to encapsulate my feelings in a better way I could, and why DaS2 is so inferior to the first one.
 
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Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,601
It wasn't just all speculation in DS1 though. Seath experimenting to find immortality isn't speculation, the game tells you that. It tells you lots of stuff. The only thing the game tells you about the rotten is like 2 lines about him caring for things unloved and being really really old. It tells you nothing at all about those statues. Which is a shame, because those things are fucking interesting, there's a few in majula by the pit, so presumably they come from there, but they spit venom down below, and someone must be collecting them and moving them around down there (but the Rotten makes no sense since he's too fat to go anywhere in the gutter.) I'd love to know who made those statues, or why they spit poison, or how they got down there. DS1 would have given us at least 1 or 2 of those pieces of info, and not knowing the rest of the details would have piqued my interest a lot more than the current state of them just being totally unexplained.
 

subotaiy

Cipher
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
524
Location
Romania
I do not think the story lacks depth. Take the rats for example, you have the idyllic town of Majula which has this ominous pit where they throw everything unwanted, they basically funnel all the shit down there into where the Rats live and into the Gutter. On top of this you trespass into the Rat's kingdom, which is why they attack you. It makes sense that the Rats living in a place where they see everything the humans try to hide have a very low opinion on humans, plus they had a treaty that said humans would leave them alone, yet you're going into their territory.

And then in the Gutter/Black Gulch the Rotten tends to those statues that I believe may represent all the hollows they threw down the pit, maybe the ones that are part of him.

So yeah like always its a bunch of speculation but I don't believe it's that different from Dark Souls 1 lore, except that countless lore videos by the likes of Vaati and ENB have turned some of this sort of stuff into "common knowledge", so to speak.

Yes, but how does this rat story compare with the story of Sif (since is somehow analogue/similar), a faithful being defending his masters grave? Not only in DS1 the circumstances are made more clear (actually being explained pretty well both through item description and events in game- the connection with the arc of Artorias), but they are also much more memorable.
The whole thing feels like a cheap copy to me; hell, they even reskinned Sif for the fight, you can say.
 

fizzelopeguss

Arcane
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Oct 1, 2004
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952
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Equality Street.
Brightstone cove is suitably fucked up, shame it seems so short.

I think it's an underrated area, and one of the few that actually sells the "weird forgotten place, collapsed under the weight of its own twisted legacy" concept they had going for a lot of the game. I think a location needs a certain amount of weird and out of place elements, which serve to make it feel more real just by being out of place. That's how I see the Magus & Congregation bossfight. Why are they there? No idea, really. Why is a Titanite Demon under Andre's workshop in Undead Parish? Same thing. Why does Ornifex have a workshop (really fucking creepy workshop by the way) next to giant spiders and basilisk? Who knows? Levels like Drangleic Castle or Iron Keep, for instance, lack this kind of variety, they're too neat and clean in their purpose.

Having a hard on for rock-cut architecture doesn't hurt either.

It wouldn't be out of place in the original souls game i feel. From the entrance i whipped out my binocs and thankfully all the interesting looking shit wasn't a skybox, and got more intriguing as i went along.

Unfortunately i'm in the gutter now which seems like a shittier blight town?
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
Gutter is upper blighttown without any other part of the world visible, and with worse enemies. On the other hand, the darkness and ambient sounds make it feel a lot more claustrophobic; it also has a decently elaborate architecture for a DaS2 level. In that, it's more like an improvement over Valley of Defilement in DeS.

Incidentally, talking about NPCs, I really like McDuff. He barely has any lines, and no storyline to speak of, but what little he has is compelling and fits the world very well. Seeing him for the first time was a good experience, just sitting there, alone, muttering to himself, hammering at the air. Same with freeing the singer in Drangleic Castle. I think these moments encapsulate what they were going for with the game's atmosphere, but simply failed on a larger scale.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
2,234
I think the biggest problem DS2 has is that it's story lacks depth. Sure, in DS1 the plot was simple as fuck, but everything had background. Stories about Seath betraying the dragons and researching immortality, about the witches of izalith being corrupted, about the fall of anor londo, about the knights going to the kiln, about new londo being sealed, etc.

DS2 doesn't have this kind of shit. Why the rat guardiians? Dunno LOL. Why the ruin sentinels? Why the lost sinner? Pretty much the only place they fleshed out was harvest valley/iron keep, which fit together, made sense, and told you some actual interesting background lore about a queen going crazy and a kingdom being destroyed as their Babel like construction sank into the ground and burst into flames. Sure, they give you the barest details like the duke experimenting to create monsters along the shaded woods route, but that tells you barely anything at all.

DS1 left certain things in the dark, but it didn't skimp on the story at all. It gave you lots of information, it was just spread out enough to leave stuff to your imagination. This time around the story is just tiny and underdeveloped.

you could ask the same about Capra Demon. why the fuck he has a key to depths? why the fuck you fight sanctuary guardian? why is he a fucking chimera? what the fuck is taurus demon doing in that tower? probably chilling and smoking pot with solaire

ruin sentiels are the same shit like iron golem. artificial creation to guard some shit. entrance to anor londo and captives of lost bastille.

for example demon ruins and lost izalith are the fucking worst areas in souls games with shittiest bosses ever but even that shitty placed mobs make some sense cause of that demons outbreak thanks to bitch of izalith. its shitty location but properly fleshed out.

on the other hand you have 5-1 and 5-2 bosses in Demons Souls, that are shitty looking and plain shitty fights with no background whatsoever. You can speculate that Dirty Colossus is Bito and Leechmonger is Lizaia turned into demons. There is no dialogue support to this ingame. Only that you find their weapons near those bosses and there are no bodies of those guys to be found. You know they went with Astrea to Valley of Defilement and somehow disappeared. Pure speculation but gives those bosses some flavour and makes you hate that bitch Astrea even more. :smug:

shitty lore aside that gang rape from 3:13 is hilarious

 
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Dragula

Augur
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May 23, 2010
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524
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Svíþjóð
The retard that designed the Shaded Forest should have had his family nuked in world war 2. Fuck you you Japanese prick with your invisible enemies.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
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Messages
10,064
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
I actually liked the gutter. The enemies are kinda shit, but going through the place, lighting it up(you did bring a torch right?) and eventually seeing the whole place in light is nice.
 

Avellion

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The gutter was indeed an interesting area, despite the weak enemies. Lighting the torches as you said as well as all those idols shooting poison at you made the area quite satisfying in the end. Good thing I had my trusty whip to destroy them all before they could poison me.

I also liked Iron Keep and Earthern Peak. But overall the general level design was nowhere near as good as Dark Souls 1's and some areas I found myself disliking a lot namely Shrine of Amana.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,913
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Did you guys also think the levels on DS1 felt more.. organic and verossimile ? I mean, like making you believe real people lived there and how, and also in the way they interconnected both routes- and architecture-wise. While DS2 levels feel more "gamey" in a way or something like that ? I know this is hugely subjective, but I felt this way.

On the other hand, I loved Majula. Its the perfect symbol of the world´s decaying, and the way the NPCs that converge there all show signs of mental degradation only reinforces this feeling, I think. I got really shocked when I saw the blacksmith daughter didnt remember he was his father anymore. I got sad, even.
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
It wasn't just all speculation in DS1 though. Seath experimenting to find immortality isn't speculation, the game tells you that. It tells you lots of stuff. The only thing the game tells you about the rotten is like 2 lines about him caring for things unloved and being really really old. It tells you nothing at all about those statues. Which is a shame, because those things are fucking interesting, there's a few in majula by the pit, so presumably they come from there, but they spit venom down below, and someone must be collecting them and moving them around down there (but the Rotten makes no sense since he's too fat to go anywhere in the gutter.) I'd love to know who made those statues, or why they spit poison, or how they got down there. DS1 would have given us at least 1 or 2 of those pieces of info, and not knowing the rest of the details would have piqued my interest a lot more than the current state of them just being totally unexplained.

There's some of the statues by Gavlan (Lonesome Gavlan) in the Gyrm's respite area of Doors of Pharros. Pharros designed contraptions to help "those in need" and Gavlan is a lonesome oddball of the gyrm who likes to wheel and deal. There's thematic connections but the clear OMFG connection isn't as obvious as say.... Seath and the Crystal Golems or the Channelers.

Unrelated but how the hell did I miss the fucking key-blade greatsword? Never once did I ever check to see it was a weapon. How many kingdom hearts fergts are running around dual wielding this shit in NG+?

meanwhileInPoland last night after clearing the shrine area on my sl1 duder I figured I'd invade a bit and dick around; holy fuck was I LOLLing the entire time. I got stomped a few times because apparently everyone summons help on that level (can't blame them) and because I'm fuggin' sl 1, but jesus was it hilarious to roll up behind someone dealing with a mage to then blast them with a fire tempest. Or the sheer number of times I could push them into a corner. I didn't do anything that awesome as just bait them tho, one day, maybe.
 
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Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,601
None, since it's counted as a key too, and disappears on restart even if you don't use it.
 

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