From Software The Dark Souls II Megathread™

[Murk]

Jesus that video coulda just been 10 seconds long without him talking.

Also, totally unnecessary to make. Everyone and their grandmother was running around with the MGS when dlc 2 hit.

 

[Jaedar]

... I want to use that in pvp.

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

Dat pink hair waifu with crown...

 

[AngryEddy]

As I'm scrolling through boss souls, I realize that I have to air yet another grievance: why not make consuming boss souls actually viable? Like give early boss souls 100k worth of souls, end game bosses 1-2 million, then dlc bosses 5 million. It would be a lot better than grinding Giant Lord or hosting PvP fight clubs at Iron Bridge. Consuming the soul of a powerful entity should make you equally as powerful.

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

I dunno man, it's already too easy to get souls and keep them without ever losing them. With the DLC1 tree thing, you don't even have to pay 3/6k to repair the stupid rings. You could never get away with this shit in DeS/DaS1.

 

[Kanedias]

I have started using the Fume UGS in PvP. Really fun to use. Sadly I suck at aiming the special attacks when playing unlocked. I need to try to get better at unlocked play.

The only bad thing about the build is that it gets annoying when you see someone using a light weapon and they do the same damage you do with an UGS. It's mostly because I didn't minmax my elemental defenses, so buffed straight swords, old whips and chaos blades deal so much damage to me. Fuck the elemental defense system.

 

[Murk]

Oh, don't worry, even at max resistance + GMB old whips still tear you apart.

I rolled until some powerstanced whipper broke his whips. I thought, a-ha, I have you now cretin! He swapped to two others.

If anything, one of the biggest problems in this game is that you can have too fucking many of any given item.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Dark Souls 2 weapon tier list (Patch 1.07)

Spoiler

• Black Flamestone dagger should be higher.
• Old Whip should go down a tier due to it breaking so easily and 0 counter damage.
• Not sure I agree with Longsword being tier 1 over Sun Sword, but it does have a very good moveset.
• Reapers could all easily be bumped down a tier (they're that bad).

Overall it's a decent representation of the current meta.

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

I have started using the Fume UGS in PvP. Really fun to use. Sadly I suck at aiming the special attacks when playing unlocked. I need to try to get better at unlocked play.

The only bad thing about the build is that it gets annoying when you see someone using a light weapon and they do the same damage you do with an UGS. It's mostly because I didn't minmax my elemental defenses, so buffed straight swords, old whips and chaos blades deal so much damage to me. Fuck the elemental defense system.

Stacking elemental defense is useless for the majority of fights. The physical robflynn damage meta is too strong. It doesn't help that FROM stealth nerfed physical defense calculations under the guise of changing heavy armor stats because of the numbness meta. OMG HAVELS HAS 50 LESS SLASHING DEFENSE THANK GOD THEY NERFED IT.

Stacking maximum defense? Enjoy your ~100 damage reduction while barely rolling any distance with 0% stamina regen.
Maximum poise? Enjoy anything 2h above 20 poise damage or 2h anything spam with stone ring. 2hR2 dagger poke MLG strats.

FROM is telling us all to get gud and start rocking low weight waifu builds with high counter damage weapons.

 

[Kanedias]

Dark Souls 2 weapon tier list (Patch 1.07)


Overall it's a decent representation of the current meta.

This is the most recent one

Spoiler

I don't think the Smelter Hammer should go into high tier at all. It may be fun to use but it's bad against anyone that knows that they are doing. Also no way the Iron King Hammer, which its shitty reach and useless R2s is higher than the Sanctum Mace, with the godly instant poison lance running attack. I also don't think the Alonne Greatbow should be high tier. Greatbows were nerfed and they don't spin around to track you anymore.

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

The best part is that the BDSS is the top weapon of all time. 0% chance of ever getting it in NG. Shit is heavy and short. BUT OMG 500 AR RAW WITH ROBSOFLYNN. Pair that up with 1h run attack spam and 150 "meta" waifu build and you've got a winner.

 

[praetor]

BDSS is crap. Drakeblood is better and at 20/40 has something like 20AR less with double the range and iirc better poisebreak. sunsword is definitely top. black flamestone should definitely be top tier with royal dirk close behind. manikin crits in top 3 so should be higher. by the latest damage tests, fume sword should be at least 2 tiers lower, it's just crap and even ashen sword outdamages it (buff or no buff, counter or no counter) while sun is head and shoulders above it. other than the now nerfed parrying frames, the monastery scimitar doesn't have anything going for it so at least 1-2 tiers lower. DSS, silverblack and partizan are as good as pate's and definitely clearly better than every other spear in "mid". swap uchi and WP, move berserker one tier below. the whole greatsword column makes barely any sense. why the fuck are smelter and iron king hammer ahead of demon, gyrm, malformed, sanctum, drakekeeper, great/large club when the latter are objectively superior? FUGS is definitely one tier above the other UGSes. BSS above espada and rapier? le fuck? santier's should be mid-high spear, but low twinblade (the twinblade attacks are garbage compare to RIT, stone, dragonrider) and curved should be below "you died". reapers column makes no sense in any parallel universe. bandit and battle axe are definitely high tier (and maaaaybe even a bit better than butcher)

3/10 list

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

So I've been rocking an extremely aggressive high poise straight sword spam shit in the BoB arena for quite a bit and I can say that poise has become quite decent since release. From whatever testing we did with Mikayel I can tell what I can expect with most weapons I face. I mostly lose to 2h straight sword/katana spam with either stone ring or 25 poise damage but for the most part tanking all the 1h parry masters is very satisfying. Even better, 2h katana spam with no stone ring... Puzzling stone sword is probably my worst enemy. I also noticed that if you interrupt someone's hit while poising through it, you don't get the usual 2 hit combo as they can roll out after the 1st. And btw you need 163 (very exact number!) poise minimum to counter below 25 2h spam.

 

[Kanedias]

BDSS is crap. Drakeblood is better and at 20/40 has something like 20AR less with double the range and iirc better poisebreak. sunsword is definitely top. black flamestone should definitely be top tier with royal dirk close behind. manikin crits in top 3 so should be higher. by the latest damage tests, fume sword should be at least 2 tiers lower, it's just crap and even ashen sword outdamages it (buff or no buff, counter or no counter) while sun is head and shoulders above it. other than the now nerfed parrying frames, the monastery scimitar doesn't have anything going for it so at least 1-2 tiers lower. DSS, silverblack and partizan are as good as pate's and definitely clearly better than every other spear in "mid". swap uchi and WP, move berserker one tier below. the whole greatsword column makes barely any sense. why the fuck are smelter and iron king hammer ahead of demon, gyrm, malformed, sanctum, drakekeeper, great/large club when the latter are objectively superior? FUGS is definitely one tier above the other UGSes. BSS above espada and rapier? le fuck? santier's should be mid-high spear, but low twinblade (the twinblade attacks are garbage compare to RIT, stone, dragonrider) and curved should be below "you died". reapers column makes no sense in any parallel universe. bandit and battle axe are definitely high tier (and maaaaybe even a bit better than butcher)

3/10 list

Fume Sword isn't that bad at all. It has the most range of all straight swords and the damage it does is insane. Like all elemental damage in this game now, it depends heavily on the defenses of the enemy, but against the average player, I do truly ridiculous damage. It also has 25 poisebreak and 120 counter modifier which is decent for a straight sword. I agree with the rest, though. Especially the bit about the Monastery Scimitar. I have used it a lot and it's a very gimmicky weapon. The lack of range hurts it a lot, people overrate it because of the 1h r2. The 1h r2 can combo for absurd damage, but it's really hard to hit with all the "ticks" of that attack. Only really works when they try to parry it and fail, or if the enemy is really bad.

BDSS is overrated because it's a straight sword that requires minimal investment for really good damage. This lets robflynn builds gouge vigor and such things. I wouldn't say it's top tier, though. High tier probably. It has short range. Drakeblood doesn't compare to it because it's a greatsword.

 

[Murk]

That list, like every other list ever, is craappppp

keyblade over black knight GS? That thing has spear like range on its r2 poke.

and the 140 rapiers are worse than estoc? I'm confused; is this for pure pvp or pve or what? Cuz ricards or espada ropera (even reg rapier) do ridiculous damage on their own and even more so with shit like leo ring.

I like estoc but it's only saving graces are the range and additional poise break (it's shield piercing is... meh).

I'm also Ashen sword > long sword. Same moveset but 25 poise break is 6gud9me. It's got shit durability but eh, on PC, fucking everything does.

Manikin should def be higher -- great durability, 150 counter, better range, and good crits on hit

only loses to black flamestone due to range and eve then I've outstabbed those fucks before with extra counter damage (leo ring on top and you get 65% damage bonus just because).

oh god... I'm arguing with an internet list... what the hell has happened to me...

.... the ass burgers... too stroooonggggg

 

[praetor]

Fume Sword isn't that bad at all. It has the most range of all straight swords and the damage it does is insane. Like all elemental damage in this game now, it depends heavily on the defenses of the enemy, but against the average player, I do truly ridiculous damage. It also has 25 poisebreak and 120 counter modifier which is decent for a straight sword.

i'm just going by some PvE tests done with results posted on gamefaqs (and i personally confirmed them. i'll have to take ashen+fume+sun+long for a comparing spin in PvP one of these days ), and the damage of Fume is so much lower (counter and/or dark buff/resin included) than the rest that it doesn't make any kind of sense

 

[Murk]

Ashen and Long have the best moveset; sunsword and fume have that stupid broadsword 2h r2. Otherwise, sun wins for beastmode damage and fume has amaaaaazing range n poisebreak n stuffies.

 

[Kanedias]

That list, like every other list ever, is craappppp

keyblade over black knight GS? That thing has spear like range on its r2 poke.

and the 140 rapiers are worse than estoc? I'm confused; is this for pure pvp or pve or what? Cuz ricards or espada ropera (even reg rapier) do ridiculous damage on their own and even more so with shit like leo ring.

I like estoc but it's only saving graces are the range and additional poise break (it's shield piercing is... meh).

I'm also Ashen sword > long sword. Same moveset but 25 poise break is 6gud9me. It's got shit durability but eh, on PC, fucking everything does.

Manikin should def be higher -- great durability, 150 counter, better range, and good crits on hit

only loses to black flamestone due to range and eve then I've outstabbed those fucks before with extra counter damage (leo ring on top and you get 65% damage bonus just because).

oh god... I'm arguing with an internet list... what the hell has happened to me...

.... the ass burgers... too stroooonggggg

Black Knight GS is extremely long. It really needs to be in High Tier. Estoc being above the other rapiers is fine. It's because of the 1h r2s. They deal massive damage, they are much easier to land than normal rapier attacks, and they are really hard to punish because they have low recovery. Longsword has a different moveset than the Ashen Sword, it has the sweep 1h r2 instead of the pokes. People seem to prefer the sweeps.

Fume Sword isn't that bad at all. It has the most range of all straight swords and the damage it does is insane. Like all elemental damage in this game now, it depends heavily on the defenses of the enemy, but against the average player, I do truly ridiculous damage. It also has 25 poisebreak and 120 counter modifier which is decent for a straight sword.

i'm just going by some PvE tests done with results posted on gamefaqs (and i personally confirmed them. i'll have to take ashen+fume+sun+long for a comparing spin in PvP one of these days ), and the damage of Fume is so much lower (counter and/or dark buff/resin included) than the rest that it doesn't make any kind of sense

I can't really argue with hard data, but are you sure it's not being tested on an enemy that has elemental resistances or something? Because my main uses the Fume Sword in PvP and the damage I do is ridiculous. I have used the Sun Sword and it feels the same or higher.

 

[praetor]

and the 140 rapiers are worse than estoc? I'm confused; is this for pure pvp or pve or what? Cuz ricards or espada ropera (even reg rapier) do ridiculous damage on their own and even more so with shit like leo ring.

I like estoc but it's only saving graces are the range and additional poise break (it's shield piercing is... meh).

worse counter, but better range, poisebreak and moveset (it's basically a Baller sword with R1 and R2 reversed and slightly worse tracking but with shield piercing)

I'm also Ashen sword > long sword. Same moveset but 25 poise break is 6gud9me. It's got shit durability but eh, on PC, fucking everything does.

not quite the same moveset. longsword has slashes on 1HR2 that can be really good to throw people off on parries. ashen doesn't have that option.

 

[UndetectedButthurt]

Fume sword is pathetic. At 99/99/99/99 you get 260 physical and 150 dark... What is the point? When most people you're going to PvP against will have at least 20/20 int/fth which is enough to get decent base elemental defenses. If you're still living the 150 meta dream and happen to fight someone with 0 dark defense... Well then maybe it's gonna do insane damage.

25 over 20 poise break is pointless even for 1h in most cases. There's no way ashen > longsword. Even short sword is better.

 

[Murk]

Black Knight GS is extremely long. It really needs to be in High Tier. Estoc being above the other rapiers is fine. It's because of the 1h r2s. They deal massive damage, they are much easier to land than normal rapier attacks, and they are really hard to punish because they have low recovery. Longsword has a different movese than the Ashen Sword, it has the sweep 1h r2 instead of the pokes. People seem to prefer the sweeps.

I'll include praetor in this cuz he responded with something similar.

I don't know man, maybe it's the lack of one-handed r2 that the basic rapiers have that's off-putting about it but in terms of damage a single counter hit from espada/ricards/reg-rap > estoc r2. Estoc has the same r2 attacks as black flamestone dagger and heide sword (when 1h) if I'm not mistaken and it's 2h r2 is just the strong poke that rapiers have.

Longsword and Ash have same 2h moves, tho I suppose I didn't clarify. The 2h poke on the ashen sword (and short-sword) has amaaaazing tracking and is very quick. It's not as ridiculous int racking like the whipsword's 2h r1 but damn near close.

Tho I guess at this point it's just a case of "I like X over Y".

 

[Kanedias]

Fume sword is pathetic. At 99/99/99/99 you get 260 physical and 150 dark... What is the point? When most people you're going to PvP against will have at least 20/20 int/fth which is enough to get decent base elemental defenses. If you're still living the 150 meta dream and happen to fight someone with 0 dark defense... Well then maybe it's gonna do insane damage.

25 over 20 poise break is pointless even for 1h in most cases. There's no way ashen > longsword. Even short sword is better.

I do decent damage against people that have GMB on. But yes, the people I fight tend to be lower levelled than the ones you meet. I play on the PS3 NG arena. I can imagine it being much worse than the Sun Sword in high SM play thanks to all the elemental defenses of overlevelled people.

 

[praetor]

Fume Sword isn't that bad at all. It has the most range of all straight swords and the damage it does is insane. Like all elemental damage in this game now, it depends heavily on the defenses of the enemy, but against the average player, I do truly ridiculous damage. It also has 25 poisebreak and 120 counter modifier which is decent for a straight sword.

i'm just going by some PvE tests done with results posted on gamefaqs (and i personally confirmed them. i'll have to take ashen+fume+sun+long for a comparing spin in PvP one of these days ), and the damage of Fume is so much lower (counter and/or dark buff/resin included) than the rest that it doesn't make any kind of sense

I can't really argue with hard data, but are you sure it's not being tested on an enemy that has elemental resistances or something? Because my main uses the Fume Sword in PvP and the damage I do is ridiculous. I have used the Sun Sword and it feels the same or higher.

iirc it was tested both on enemies with "neutral" dark defences (lowest damage among sun, ashen, varangian and iirc long) and even on enemies with dark weakness where it outdamaged the ashen (both with dark weapon) by something like 6 points on a counter. it just confirms that a) team B have no system and no semblance of one behind those numbers. they can't even be considered guidelines anymore . and b) buffs work off a formula nobody knows and can't even begin to figure out due to all the seemingly random numbers (at least in PvE). but, considering how the ring of steel protection works and the total lack of consistency in mechanics, i wouldn't put it past them that shit works differently in PvP and so the Fume isn't any worse than the others...

 

[Murk]

I honestly NEVER trust numbers when using PVE enemies -- even the 'humanoid' ones like phantoms or NPC invasions. I don't think enemies even have primary stats like STR/DEX but just derived ones. Take the old knights at heide -- people use them to derive pre-patch post-patch changes but old knights are ridiculous. Hitting them with strike damage gives bonus damage where-as there's no such thing on actual human players. IMO, only trust numbers if tested on real people.

That Dante guy used them for magic testing and I thought it was retarded; spells like CSS do way different damage to PVE enemies than to players -- especially when taking shit like NG + cycles into account. I suppose it might show 'relative' differences but those relative differences will be based on faulty calculations.

Basically, research methods 101, big fucking confounding variable(s).

 

[praetor]

I honestly NEVER trust numbers when using PVE enemies -- even the 'humanoid' ones like phantoms or NPC invasions. I don't think enemies even have primary stats like STR/DEX but just derived ones. Take the old knights at heide -- people use them to derive pre-patch post-patch changes but old knights are ridiculous. Hitting them with strike damage gives bonus damage where-as there's no such thing on actual human players. IMO, only trust numbers if tested on real people.

That Dante guy used them for magic testing and I thought it was retarded; spells like CSS do way different damage to PVE enemies than to players -- especially when taking shit like NG + cycles into account. I suppose it might show 'relative' differences but those relative differences will be based on faulty calculations.

Basically, research methods 101, big fucking confounding variable(s).

http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/resistance here's probably THE most extensive research done on enemy resistances in a souls game ever. ridiculous amount of work put in this (latest patch)

btw, Team B doing their usual Team B shenanigans, put some "special" spell resistance "stat" for PvE enemies in game (the DLCs are by far the biggest offender)... so some enemies that are usually weak to magic, will be damaged much more by a moonlight greastword than a full geyser or a CSS. based team b