Editorial The Elder Scrolls V: What We Want to See

[Turok]

The problem with oblivion is the game itself.

 

[Ogg]

They actually raise a handful of good points in that article too, but don't let me interrupt you.

Like "pallet swapping armour" like in ME2? Sure. Useless customisation is what Oblivion really lacked.

 

[Lingwe]

That's a problem with Oblivion's character leveling system. It exists along side the problem with Oblivion's level scaling system, but they are separate and distinct. Both detract from the game.

They are both related and tied together. The same-same level scaling would simply make the game bland and uninteresting if it the charcter stayed at the same strength. It is when it is combined with the leveling system that makes the character weaker as they rise in level unless people specifically focus upon skills they are not meant to focus upon or choose to give their characters major skills that they will never use that it becomes the total mess that is Oblivion levelling.

Morrowind had the same levelling system (albiet slightly different) and it did a decent job and never forced people to game the system to get an acceptable outcome.

 

[spectre]

I wish to see ultra-realistic bosom physics with top notch horseriding animations... just saying.

 

[Darth Roxor]

They actually raise a handful of good points in that article too, but don't let me interrupt you.

Like "pallet swapping armour" like in ME2? Sure. Useless customisation is what Oblivion really lacked.

Like no level scaling. Like more balanced equipment. Like better looking and more numerous character models. Like better level design. Like better QA.

But don't let me interrupt you, carry on.

 

[StrangeCase]

The author is pretty clearly a chortling moron, but even he can identify Oblivion's glaring flaws. What amazes me is that after a sizable list of Oblivion's fundamental failures, he still (apparently) considers it to be a great game. Must be a gaming journalist or something.

 

[Some Moron On Welfare]

Oblivion is a great game.

...for masturbation purposes. There are so many top notch quality sex mods for it!

 

[ZbojLamignat]

Yeah, pointing out that oblivion had retarded balance, repetitive dungeons and fugly character models is very perceptive and definitely worth writing an awsome article like that.

Oh, and the old "we give a game 10/10 in the official review and then when it's safe admit that it is in fact a bit shit".

to that site.

 

[I.C. Wiener]

Encumbrance is only another roadbump in the tried and true Oblivion/FO3 formula of dungeon crawl/kill shit/loot corpse/fast travel to hideout and stash goods/repeat. Removing the weight limit would make finding and collecting useless identical junk 5% more streamlined.

As for the other ones, they're mostly improvements, but fuck, there's more cancer than healthy tissue. There are no redeeming qualities or assets to be improved upon. Just throw the whole thing away and start over from scratch.

 

[Jaesun]

Does a single person at all look forward to another Bethesda ES game?? WHY? There is nothing they could ever do to make it even *somewhat* playable.

 

[hakuroshi]

They probably the only ones who still do something remotely like sandbox rpgs. They do shit, but there is no alternative.

 

[Some Moron On Welfare]

ITT: TOO HIGH STANDARDS.

Nobody's going to make a game just for you. Get over it, you fucking rebellious teens. You're not unique snowflakes.

 

[FeelTheRads]

ITT: TOO HIGH STANDARDS.

Nobody's going to make a game just for you. Get over it, you fucking rebellious teens. You're not unique snowflakes.

Good thing you're totally mature and level-headed by rebelling against the rebels.

Fucking epitome of butthurt you are.

 

[commie]

ITT: TOO HIGH STANDARDS.

Nobody's going to make a game just for you. Get over it, you fucking rebellious teens. You're not unique snowflakes.

Drog, you've already used the unique snowflake line in regards to me. You're recycling material just like your Biofag masters. Stop it.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Does a single person at all look forward to another Bethesda ES game?? WHY? There is nothing they could ever do to make it even *somewhat* playable.

The problem is, as always, anticipation is fun. Before Oblivion they had a decent record with Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind. Now I understand that people who made those first games are not the ones making this one but just maybe they can get it together again.

Maybe.

 

[Turjan]

Encumbrance is only another roadbump in the tried and true Oblivion/FO3 formula of dungeon crawl/kill shit/loot corpse/fast travel to hideout and stash goods/repeat. Removing the weight limit would make finding and collecting useless identical junk 5% more streamlined.

I thought that, in Oblivion, the weight limit had the purpose of being one of several retarded economic limits that prevented the player from being able to buy everything he wanted after a very short play time.

Running back to the dungeon and picking up what you couldn't carry didn't always work. Most of those stupid dungeons respawned at the moment you left through the exit door. Of course, you could drop the loot in front of the door (where it was safe), immediately go back in and work on increasing your loot pile by killing a new set of generic opponents.

 

[Luzur]

Does a single person at all look forward to another Bethesda ES game?? WHY? There is nothing they could ever do to make it even *somewhat* playable.

how do you say, "fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you."?

 

[Stalin]

If i could see more titties i would be happy

 

[Imbecile]

Level scaling is just a game design tool, and like any tool, if used properly and subtly, it can improve a game.

Unfortunately, Oblivion vastly overuses the technique. In a sandbox RPG, one of the largest aspects, if not the largest aspect, is the exploration of the world. Unfortunately, exploration quickly becomes pointless if every enemy you encounter and - more importantly - every piece of loot you find - is scaled precisely to your level. No more sneaking into the dragon's den at a low level to try and find the Sword of Whoopass - instead you'll encounter baby dragons guarding a Dagger + 1. Exciting.

The level scaling is the biggest issue with exploration in Oblivion, but far from the only one. The copy/paste auto-generated dungeons don't help matters - give me a dozen hand-crafted multi-level dungeons over a hundred "auto-terrain-generated" dungeons any day of the week. It is lazy and it shows. Once again, there's no point in exploring new places if they're all going to use the same half-dozen tilesets with roughly the same layouts. The fact that those copy/paste dungeons are filled with enemies and loot that are perfectly-scaled-to-your-exact-level really just adds insult to injury.

Without going into the overused voice actors, NPC models, and outdoor areas (WHO WANTS MORE FOREST? I DO!), Oblivion is quite simply a game based around exploration...where exploration is boring. The overuse of level scaling is directly - though not solely - responsible for that boredom.

Exactly. I dont have a problem with minor, subtly done level scaling. It just makes the game more interesting and challenging. But when it becomes obvious (and having bandits ask you for 100gp while wearing priceless suits of daedric armour is obvious), then it takes the fun out of exploration, and makes the game world as a whole less convincing

 

[BethesdaLove]

"It just makes the game more interesting and challenging. "

Level scaling is replacement for actual design. Automation. It eases the amount of work required. So, per extension - it does not make a game more interesting or challenging.
A scaled encounter can always be replaced with a better designed encounter.

Lets take a random example:
The village of blue things in BG1 in the wilderness somewhere.

An automatic scaled encounter throws more blue things at you, maybe a shaman.

The same encounter designed for high level forces the leader of the blue things to initiate dialog.
Or the whole village runs for the hills...
Or whatever.

You could argue that this is actually level scaling since the game checks for the character level. But the automatic level scaling used today cant do the same since its not on par with a human intellect. It just increases numbers or adds extra, predefined monsters.

Level scaling is a cheap, shitty trick because its autonomous.

 

[Imbecile]

"It just makes the game more interesting and challenging. "

Level scaling is a cheap, shitty trick because its autonomous.

True, but you need some level of automation in a game, and to pretend otherwise is wildly unrealistic. You could have millions of individually modeled trees, or you could just template a few variations and copy paste them.

Level scaling is the same. You could manually design and place individual enemies so that they are all unique and look different, and are at appropriately pre-set fixed levels. Or you could save enormous amounts of time and establish rules that automate it, for largely the same results.

I'm not disputing that badly implemented or heavy handed level scaling is a bad thing. But the basic concept is not without merit.

 

[Rhalle]

What do I want to see in TES V?

I want to see it not become FO3 by:

1. Going from multi-piece to one-piece armor sets.

2. Having weapons just 'pop' into existence instead of being sheathe-able.

3. Being 35 hours long

4. Having a good but more linear story, instead of imitating Bioware shit boilerplate dialogue and offering phony 'choices'

5. Not being fucking 'Episodic' or choked with nickel-and dime Jew-ed up DLC bullshit.

6. Being XXXTREME with blood and gore.

I have little problem with scaling.

Scaling means the world is truly open; I don't see any point in powergaming in some zone way above your level until you beat it, which then fucks up the balance of the rest of the game. What's the point of that?

 

[nomask7]

Scaling means the world is truly open; I don't see any point in powergaming in some zone way above your level until you beat it, which then fucks up the balance of the rest of the game. What's the point of that?

Why did the game have a balance to be fucked up in the first place? What's the point of balance in a friggin' adventure game? And let's face it, it's going to be an adventure game.

Only a completely un-selfconscious moron would find immersion in a scaled world that revolves around the player.

The real world doesn't revolve around you. That's what makes it real. The game world probably shouldn't either.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Scaling means the world is truly open; I don't see any point in powergaming in some zone way above your level until you beat it, which then fucks up the balance of the rest of the game. What's the point of that?

Because sneaking through an area you have no business being in, stealing the best loot you can carry and then running for dear life, with a huge edge (be it in the shape of gold, experience or equipment) for the next few levels in return for your daring, is the most memorable and fun thing that open-world RPGs can offer. If you just want a standard, scaled, level-balanced experience from beginning to end, I don't really understand the appeal of playing an "open" RPG beyond sightseeing (which can be cool too, don't get me wrong).

If the game's well-designed, it's not going to fuck up the balance of the rest of it anyway; you've gone through an extraordinarily challenging hour or so in return for an easier time of it until you reach the level where whatever you gained would be standard anyway, at which point normal difficulty resumes.

 

[Rhalle]

Scaling means the world is truly open; I don't see any point in powergaming in some zone way above your level until you beat it, which then fucks up the balance of the rest of the game. What's the point of that?

Because sneaking through an area you have no business being in, stealing the best loot you can carry and then running for dear life, with a huge edge (be it in the shape of gold, experience or equipment) for the next few levels in return for your daring, is the most memorable and fun thing that open-world RPGs can offer. If you just want a standard, scaled, level-balanced experience from beginning to end, I don't really understand the appeal of playing an "open" RPG beyond sightseeing (which can be cool too, don't get me wrong).

If the game's well-designed, it's not going to fuck up the balance of the rest of it anyway; you've gone through an extraordinarily challenging hour or so in return for an easier time of it until you reach the level where whatever you gained would be standard anyway, at which point normal difficulty resumes.

Yeah, I understand that.

Now that I think about it, the only place that Oblivion's scaling bothered me was out in world, generally-- the bandits. That was a problem, since of course the bandits always seemed to be upgrading their gear to be exactly as good as mine. I don't really remember it being as egregious on the missions or in the dungeons.