The Future of RPGs

[Lacrymas]

The lack of setting variety is because game developers haven't really immersed themselves in the artistic literature (and movies) of the world, their inspirations are usually Alien(s), LotR and other (usually the same) games. I think Ken Levine said something like this as well. Not to mention the complete lack of any deep exploration in the settings we DO have. Post-apocalyptic games don't explore the philosophical ramifications of knowing you are living on a doomed world. Medieval settings don't touch the fact that everything is dominated (totally and absolutely) either by the church or the monarch, neither do they try to understand how peasants live without committing suicide from pure boredom (or if their lives are even meaningful), or how the life of an adventurer really would be like. Magical settings are even worse, the scope of commanding the physics of the universe with your mind is immense. I really could go on. That is what a different setting is about, it's not just changing the style of the architecture and add guns. We need better and more educated (in the arts, philosophies and sciences) writers in general. Only then can we start seeing some serious efforts into actually expanding and being in the totality of a given setting. Bioshock, System Shock 2, Planescape: Torment and KotOR2 (maybe Bloodlines, but since it's unfinished it doesn't go anywhere) are the only examples I can think of where this is achieved with varying success.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm beginning to think jcd and agentorange have the right idea

 

[Lilura]

I can't honestly think of a better time for RPGs than right now, it isn't even close.

The Interplay, Black Isle and Troika era was better than now.

In attempting to legitimize what you say, "honestly" just makes people think you're a liar.

The rest of your post made my eyes roll so much they nearly dropped out of their sockets.

 

[Electryon]

I can't honestly think of a better time for RPGs than right now, it isn't even close.

The Interplay, Black Isle and Troika era was better than now.

In attempting to legitimize what you say, "honestly" just makes people think you're a liar.

The rest of your post made my eyes roll so much they nearly dropped out of their sockets.

Seems a bit harsh simply for expressing the opinion that we've had an obvious revival of the genre the last few years and stating that there has never been a better time from a technology and distribution standpoint to experience older games, which combined with each other make for a hell of time to be a RPG fan. But hey, no worries....

 

[laclongquan]

If you cant even take a light jab like that... what are you doing express your views on Codex, the piranha lake of gaming forum?

 

[CrustyBot]

The genre isn't in better shape now than it has ever been. However, it has finally jumped back to life after being comatose for 5-10 years, and stagnant for 15+.

There is hope on the horizon, and I am more optimistic now than I am about the genre from 2005-2012, but you are categorically wrong if you think the current wave of RPGs (2013-) and the immediate future is as good or better than say 1987-1993 (Ultima, Might and Magic, Wizardry, Goldbox, RoA Trilogy, etc) or 1996-2003 (Black Isle, Infinity Engine, Troika, etc).

What we're seeing now is developers trying to re-trace the steps of design philosophies and game styles lost over a decade ago due to them being considered unprofitable. If you're cynical, it's cashing in on nostalgia. But I think the vital step now is for developers to gain that foothold and necessary experience in creating classic style RPGs, then choose in which direction to move forward with fresh ideas, mechanics or settings that define a generation of gamers and designers. That will determine IMO whether cRPGs have a genuine future as a significant player in the gaming marketplace, or whether this wave is the last hurrah. It could well end up where the RTS genre is heading. There was a similar wave of very popular HD remakes (AoE, Stronghold, Homeworld) and games that emulated the classics of the past (Planetary Annihilation, Grey Goo) but unless Ashes of the Singularity, Blitzkrieg 3, Cossacks 3, and the like make a real dent in the market in 2016/2017, it's hard not to see the genre completely subsumed by bastardisations ala MOBAs.

RPGs are in the same boat and were suppressed by Action RPGs for a very long time. I think we'll pull through but it's naivety or inexperience that causes one to say that RPGs are in the best shape they've ever been in.

The good thing is that the potential for the odd passion project (AoD, Underrail) is higher than ever due to reduced barriers to entry. Still, what I'm talking about refers more to development studios that can consistently put out games and acts as the lifeblood of the genre. InXile, Larian, Obsidian, Harebrained Schemes, Logic Artists, etc.

 

[laclongquan]

On the subject

1. A substantial jump in AI coding. We need better AI for NPC/opponents for decades. This will be the next step that drive computing cycles up in games.

2. Expansion of cultural views. Not the Political Correct shits, but about the infusion of more developers from other cultures such as Japan, China, Korea, Vietnam, India, Potatoland, Borschlant, etc... Since their own cultures differ from the West, they have more fresh/different ideas about game settings. No more thinly veiled Christian views. Or elf. It's the logical next step in the industry's expansion. I want some games about a human conquer the world, impregnanted angels, and corrupt god, damnit~

4. Laxer regulation of copyright enforcement so that fan translation can prosper. We are talking about Englishified fanworks here. if the regulation is tightened, the translation of Japanese work will stall. And good luck waiting for official localizations.

 

[Lilura]

Seems a bit harsh simply for expressing the opinion that we've had an obvious revival of the genre the last few years and stating that there has never been a better time from a technology and distribution standpoint to experience older games, which combined with each other make for a hell of time to be a RPG fan. But hey, no worries....

Revival? More like an apelike caricature of the late 90s and early 00s.

 

[Electryon]

Seems a bit harsh simply for expressing the opinion that we've had an obvious revival of the genre the last few years and stating that there has never been a better time from a technology and distribution standpoint to experience older games, which combined with each other make for a hell of time to be a RPG fan. But hey, no worries....

Revival? More like an apelike caricature of the late 90s and early 00s.

At this point in the history of not just games, but entertainment in general, all we can really expect is a reasonable and entertaining facsimile of what came before. This doesn't just apply to RPGs, but movies, music, books etc. Not ALL of the great ideas have been tried, but really, most of them have. I often use the example of the band Badfinger. They were wholly what you would call an "apelike caricature" of The Beatles, yet if you are a Beatles fan, it would be pretty crazy for you to not enjoy at least a handful of Badfinger songs. The new Star Wars movie is a clear "aping" of A New Hope, but people are starved for a good Star Wars movie, and they love it. Similarly, if you enjoyed Dungeon Master, there is every reason to believe you'll have a pretty good time with Legend of Grimrock. If you love the Infinity Engine, Pillars of Eternity is AT LEAST worth your time to check out, even if you don't think it measures up. The most original idea I've seen for a RPG in this current revival has actually been Darkest Dungeon.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

So, how can RPGs evolve from this point? What needs to be done better and what needs to be focused on. What needs to be forgotten?

Consoles.

 

[Keldryn]

I am the future of RPGs.

Just give me 5 years and a few million dollars to prove it.

 

[pippin]

5 years in Cleve Time(tm)?

 

[Lilura]

Similarly, if you enjoyed Dungeon Master, there is every reason to believe you'll have a pretty good time with Legend of Grimrock.

How about I just mod the real deal; is that ok with you?

The same goes for the Infinity and Aurora engines: I'm currently playing Bastard of Kosigan for NWN, and enjoying it.

 

[Mustawd]

Today's RPG scene is like that hot 18 year-old you knew back when; who is now in her 40s and has had a bit of work done. She's still hot in her own way, but she'll never have the same perkiness and freshness as when she was 18.

Jaesun, same story but just think of cock and ballz.


EDIT: Also, you might have changed enough now that you prefer the older version anyhow. Since, as we all know, 18 year olds are idiots.

 

[shihonage]

Start by studying Fallout 1.

 

[Telengard]

The nature of the latest generation of rpgs is also - in addition to things mentioned above - due to the nature of Kickstarter itself. The Kickstarter concept is basically going around to the public and asking them to vote on the idea of a game. And what does that mean, in the end? It means tyranny of the masses. The dev still needs broad appeal in order to gain the funding traction to be able to make the game.

But it doesn't stop there. Since they paid the money for the idea, the public naturally believes that the company should make the game to their idea of what the game idea presented to them was. And so, they have been given a means to vote on game features, and that ends with the masses dictating design decisions. More tyranny of the masses. The masses control the purse strings, plus they have control over first reviews, so the dev absolutely cannot afford to piss of whatever group is the largest contributor, lest they sink you.

And such is not an environment conducive to innovation, anymore than the risk-averse management of standard production is. For the exact same reasons, too. But not only that, no company produces a wonder every time they make a game, not even Looking Glass. In the traditional storefront model, the buyer evaluates the quality of the game on a case-by-case basis. With Kickstarter, that's out the window, and a company becomes only as good as their latest game, not their overall catalog. Thus making the desire to play it safe all the stronger, since under this model a single failure with the masses will sully your reputation forever. After all, you used their money to make that dud.

And on the other side of things, investors dumped rpgs a decade and a half ago, back when there was still promise of potentially selling 2 millions copies at full price (both Baldur's Gates). So, those investors are obviously not jumping up and down to get back into rpg investment now, what with the current top dog sitting at sales of 1 million discount copies, and that on the bad side of inflation-adjustment. Rather, they're probably patting themselves on the back for getting out before the market went south.

The best place rpgs could get to is self-financed independent development. So, no outside strings. Total dev control. Unfortunately, graphics are the things that take a hit when there isn't the big investment money rolling in, and the rpg audience are graphics whores. Which is why this method hasn't worked for so long, unlike for the strategy grognards. This path produces game likes Knights of the Chalice, which nobody buys. Howsoever, this is where the innovation will be, when and if it comes.

 

[prodigydancer]

The Kickstarter concept is basically going around to the public and asking them to vote on the idea of a game. And what does that mean, in the end? It means tyranny of the masses.

And it's a beautiful thing. The tyranny of the masses made the Shadowrun series, WL2, PoE and TToN possible. Oh, and Grim Dawn too. Let the oppression continue!

Face it, your post is just the usual anti-crowdfunding drivel. Just because there are a few vocal shitheads on official boards who cry about how the game isn't what they personally want it to be, doesn't mean there's tyranny. And what's wrong with voting on features? Take a five-minute break from shitposting and go check the TToN ideas site: top voted ideas are all the good ones.

 

[Lacrymas]

I am usually against anything that caters to the masses, but crowdfunding isn't like that. The budget provided by Kickstarter/Indiegogo is very far away from the budget of AAA developers, so there's no tyranny of the *masses*. Yes, pretty much all RPGs that have since come out of them (KS and Indiegogo) have been failures, with D:OS having failed the least. I don't know if we count AoD and UnderRail as crowdfunded, but if we do then they haven't failed and that's the way to go. They can be improved substantially in a lot of places, but incline is in their general direction.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Eh maybe I'm skeptical, but the resurgence of more classical RPG is basically a bunch of old people who at the best just try to do what they did best and at worst, cashing in on nostalgia.
I don't think the "classic revival" thing would go beyond 2020 or 2025, simply because there is only so much nostalgia you could cash in.

Thing is, glossy presentation with AAA graphic will not go anywhere. At one point, isometric game with deep mechanic will be the scope of much smaller indie developer such as AoD or Underrail team. And the thing is, both AoD and Underrail are product of love much more than anything else. They are basically love letter to older RPGs. They will not reach mainstream success. As Codexer get older and have their life taken by the grim reaper so will the market for such RPGs and they will die down to obscurity once more.

 

[Lacrymas]

That's not actually true, since the RPG is the only genre that truly exploits the unique possibilities of video gaming. I.e. non-linearity. This non-linearity isn't the cut-up technique in literature, so there's much to be said in an artistic sense. I don't think this genre is going to go anywhere, especially since the opportunity to create games is going to be easier and easier to come by. 3 man teams are already making better RPGs than most attempts, so I don't worry too much.

 

[Rake]

The truth is propably in the middle. The future looks better than it did any time in the last decade. While kickstarter wasn't the dream come true some people expected, it did bring marketiability and visibility in the "old school type games", and that is importand to games like Underail, SotS and AoD.

And while the supposedly saviors were proven underwelming in their effords so far, we did get a couple of games that have a chance to be future classics.
Is AoD better than Fallout 1, or Underail better than PST? Maybe yes, maybe not, tastes differ. But having actualy games that can be put side by side with the classics and hold their ground instead of being completely inferior in every singe aspect, is no small thing.
And there is still the possibility of something good coming out from the tripple i "big boyz" (Larian,inXile,Obsidian,HBS) even though i wouldn't hold my breath given their mentality.

On the other hand, while the last couple of years were way better than any other year in the last decade, they were mediocrity incarnate compaired to late 90' early 00', and the Codex Top 5 is still p. much the same, with games made before 15 years remaining unsurpassed in general.
The last year was a turning point. What direction the future will go is still an unknown. But there is more reason to hopefull now than it were the previous years.
And if we move slightly away from RPGs, i don't remember another year when i had so many games to be waiting for: Battle Brothers, That Which Sleeps, TTON, games by Wormwood studios (http://www.wormwoodstudios.com/2015/12/auld-lang-syne.html) , the Iron Tower future games, anything from the dev of Stasis.
Way better than years when the choice was between Bioware, Bethesda, CDPR and whatever mainstream deal Obsidian had managed to put together

 

[Perkel]

Specialization.

"Isometric" RPGs or cRPGs will thrive now because more and more people start to play them. Pillars of Eternity sold more than 500k, DoS i think close to milion by now and so on.
Simply put the more games are released in certain genre the more people start to play them. People who tried one cRPG might try few other ones.

Since currently CRPGs aren't tied down to big publishers there is little chance that they suddenly will die down like previously.

Dungeon crawlers are DC they will always be and there doesn't seem to be time when someone will not make them. Even if you consider PC there were few of them in recent years and if you look at consoles (which is weird) like DS or 3DS even PSP they are released there constantly (DS has probably bigger library of dugeon crawlers than PC in last 10 years).

AAA RPGs will go toward action games and story with little C&C.


Like i said the more games are released the more people get into genre the more people look for other games from same genre the more people play it the more.....

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

To me modern RPG suffer a lot from the lack of this:

Originality:
In past some RPG provided nice weird and lovely settings... Devs were pleased to explore their creativity and create lovely sometimes weird setting but today... Almost all the setting in rpg seems like copy paste of generic medieval fantasy european like setting...

For istance look what is happened with the Tes franchise..
They created an awesome lore and world to explore with morrowind setting the basic not only of the province of Morrowind but talking in game of other provinces as well... Cyrodill in morrowind was described mostly covered on jungle with rainforest and two opposed dinasty attempting to prevail eachother... And then... BOOM...Oblivion came out and they ditched evrything in favour of a boring totally not used before generic european medieval fantasy setting... Same for skyrim in bloodmoon you had a lote of more amazing lore info about the Nords.. Totally different from what you find in skyrim.. Nords in bloodmoon had their own religion tradictions.. And then in Skyrim they still follow the imperial pattern of gods from oblivion...

Pillars of eternity:
I liked the story but.... To me Pillars of eternity is a game than try to look like a D&D but fail under every side....Gameplay speaking this "Ennemy should not have immunity" is just plain dumb... You will have flying creature able to be slow down from oil on the ground... Skelekton Ooze and no eyes creatures that can be blinded... This gameplay design not only hurts the gameplay itself but even the setting credibility it feel plastic... Arcade... Also race selection in this game reminded me too much D&D yeah they changed names on the race... But still you have half orc.. Halfling and Aasimar.... Instead to create a world with his own original inhabitants they just made a bad copy of a D&D setting campaign...

Appeal to people that dislikes rpg:

Gamer1: So do you like planescape torment?
Gamer2: No too much reading...
Gamer1: That is your problem... Is an RPG dialogue, story and narration is part of the game at the same manner gameplay is...

In a optimal World a dialogue like that described perfectly what you play rpg for.....But the reality is different...

Now we have so called rpg.. with short sometime not existent dialogues... Shallownes all around...Gameplay stramlined at the point even a potato with no brain can always succeed (skyrim anyone?) in the end many producers are creating rpg for people that hate rpgs....

Also one of the first thing you read in a review is how good the voice acting is in a game... and that makes me so mad...

Rant mode on:
RPG ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE FUCKING MOVIES... VOICE ACTING should be something plus... and NOT A REQUIREMENT TO MAKE AN RPG...If i want frigging VOICE ACTING... CINEMATICS.. i watch a goddamn MOVIE...
Not even mentioning that all this cinematic voice acting dialogues make rpg to have short dialogues and story....You put DEPTH to sacrifice in order to have a CINEMATIC game... That is the reason why today we have Rpg you can only give a couple of answer in a dialogue... VOICE ACTING costs...If every line of dialogue must be voice acted you will end to CUT CONTENTS inevitabily...

 

[naossano]

Free games, but 60 DLC released each month. Each one cost 1 $.

 

[Keldryn]

5 years in Cleve Time(tm)?

Nah, only 5 years in Vault Dweller time.