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Gothic The key to Gothic 3?

Discussion in 'Piranha Bytes' started by PorkyThePaladin, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    So I've been shitting on Gothic 3 since 2006, when it first did bad things to me. Obviously there is much that is wrong with this Piranha Bytes game, but I've never been able to get deep enough into it to see most of that, because 2 things always stopped me cold in my tracks. One was technical issues: those of you who bought it back in 2006 remember the kind of loading issues the game had. That has been pretty much negated with modern hardware and/or patches.

    The other major thing was combat. I always felt like Gothic 1 and 2 (and Risen) did really awesome things with combat for their time. But in Gothic 3 the combat was utter shit. Not only were the improved animations with skill gain gone, but even the default animations looked like a drunk guy trying to cut through a net with a rolling pin. Everything was slow and clunky, gone were the timed blocks and cool combos of G1/2, and most of combat seemed relegated to button spam and stunlocks.

    Since then, I've tried to get into Gothic 3 again and again, because the game underneath still felt fun in that Piranha Bytes way that no one else can replicate. But every single time, I would be wrecked by the combat system. Until now.

    I think I finally figured out how to make it work. Not make it great or anything, mind you, but good enough to let me enjoy the rest of the game. So the key is to install Community Patch 1.75, then the update pack to it (which I was told about by our very own FEDSMOKER, https://www.worldofgothic.de/dl/download_523.htm ), and THEN (dramatic music playing), use shields.

    Why shields you ask? Well, you see, Gothic 3 allows the following styles of combat:
    - 1-handed
    - 2-handed
    - dual wield
    - sword and shield
    - archery
    - magic

    Archery is ok to use as backup, but I think it would be boring as the main style. Magic in PB games is always pretty boring, just spam spells. 2-handed and dual wield are badly implemented, because you cannot defend with them effectively, so the idea is to just use the range for the former and spins for the latter to overwhelm the enemy with attack spam. Pretty dull. And 1-handed is like a worse version of the above.

    The main problem is this: community patch introduces timed blocks to the vanilla game, but enemies can use power attacks to strike through those. There is no good way to deal with power attacks, other than cheese. You can try to quick-jab the enemy to interrupt the power attack, but that will only work on scrubs, as higher enemies power attack ridiculously fast, not giving you a chance to do that. You can try to dance around the power attacks, but again, because of higher level enemies' speed, this will only work on scrubs, or if you use a long range weapon like a halberd, staying out of enemy's range. The latter is just boring.

    So the beauty of shields, which I just found out via testing, is that they actually block power attacks (at least from most weapons, I think some might be able to cut through them). So now with Community Patch and shields, you can have a functional version of timed block and dynamic combat where you don't have to cheese the system.

    I intend to play through the game now, like this, as long as this combat approach holds up. Playing on Hard, with Alternative AI and Altenative Balance both enabled. Pretty damn hard. Will let you know how it goes.
     
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  2. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    Uninstall.exe is the key to Gothic 3.
     
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  3. ShaggyMoose Learned

    ShaggyMoose
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    I remember when this was released; I beat up twenty orcs, then got stunlocked by a single boar repeatedly until I uninstalled it and waited for a year.
     
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  4. Sinatar Arbiter

    Sinatar
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    Gothic 3 is a festering boil on the end of a disease ridden cock.

    There is no key. It's awful, don't play it.
     
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  5. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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  6. Daemongar Arcane Patron

    Daemongar
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    Well, I almost gave up at wolves who were impossible to kill with anything but a spear, which I didn't get until halfway through the game. But I finished Gothic 3. It was huge, and brutal, but I finished it. There was a lot to explore and it was interesting, but I only remember feeling kinda crummy about so many things:
    * Impossible to find teleport stones. Harder to find than bottlecaps lying on the ground in FO:NV, but 100x more critical
    * Really badly optimized 3D engine. Overheating video card with the base install. Saved by the community patch.
    * The crummy infinite carry - I could carry 30 Orc Armors and swords. Including unlimited anything else, making me pick up everything in the game.
    * Some kind of magically protected castle which had me meander through hours of looking around to be rewarded with so little

    Gothic 3 had something, but left me feeling empty for having completed it.
     
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  7. GrafvonMoltke Prophet

    GrafvonMoltke
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    Imagine playing Gothic 3 when you can play ELEX instead.
     
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  8. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    Update: After further playing, I am sad to say the shield build doesn't work well. While it does block quick and power strikes from most things, and even some animal attacks with the update pack, it has a ridiculously slow activation during combat. So if you attack something after blocking, to bring the shield back up to blocking takes forever compared to weapon block. And then on top of that, I was fighting a guy in arena, and he just went attack spam on me, and since the shield can only be held up for 2.5 seconds at a time with the Community Patch, the slow activation was just killer.

    Anyways, so I switched back to just one-handed weapon, and using a combination of blocking and movement for defense. Blocking for quick attacks, movement for avoiding power attacks. I also got tired of Hard difficulty, because it just inflates enemy hit points to insane levels, and makes arena combatants act like like Chuck Norris on Ritalin. Switched it to Medium.

    With these changes, working better. Hopefully it can get me through the game now. Fingers crossed.
     
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  9. Lord_Potato Arcane

    Lord_Potato
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    After finishing the game at least once. Did it last year with community patch,content pack and some other tweaks. In today's state on modern PC it proves to be an underrated and very unpolished gem.
     
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  10. Supermedo Scholar

    Supermedo
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    I did piranha bytes games marathon last year, yeah Gothic 3 isn't good as Gothic 2 or even one but it is not that bad especially if you play as Mage and I loved it more than risen 2.
    the great thing with spells that enemies can't block it, mana potions are cheap and plentiful (now you can chug potions while moving) and you can learn Mana regeneration mid game.
     
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  11. Dodo1610 Magister

    Dodo1610
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    I seriously can't think of a good reason to play Gothic 3 since the game lacks all of Gothic 1/2 tight design. The game has broken melee combat, broken AI, mind-numbing MMO fetschquets, no story and even after years of mods and fan patches there are still too many glitches and bugs to count. Gothic 3 was only good as a walking simulator due to the pretty landscapes and amazing soundtrack. These days there are tons of better open-world games with better combat and visuals.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
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  12. Inhabitants of Khorinis Novice

    Inhabitants of Khorinis
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    Gothic 3 is not an unpolished gem ffs. Unpolished gems are fundamentally flawless but rough around the edges games. Gothic 3 is the Cyberpunk 2077 of 2006. You can release as many patches and install as many mods as you want, but at the end of the day you're polishing a turd.
     
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  13. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    You know, once I adopted my latest approach (using a fast 1-handed weapon to block quick attacks, and using fancy footwork to get around power attacks, and playing on Medium/Alternative AI ON, Alternative Balancing ON), the combat against humanoids is actually pretty damn fun. Don't get me wrong, the animations and controls are still clunky and janky as fuck, but once you get past that, it actually takes real skill, and feels interesting. I became a champion of two arenas, Cape Dun and Motrea, and some of the fights were outright awesome. Some enemies spam fast attacks, others are slow, some switch it up, you really have to adjust your tactics and approach.

    What I try to do is hold up weapon block at key moments, e.g. when approaching the enemy or right after hitting them (they often like to counter-attack at that point with something fast), or when I see a quick attack coming. Then, as soon as I see them go into power attack stance, I step to the side and inside, to dodge that one, and quickly hit them with a fast attack from the side. Fighting multiple enemies makes this even more complicated.
     
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  14. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    I have to say, the game aint't bad. It's not nearly as well done as G1/G2 in terms of the world, but on the other hand, it's not as bland as I expected either. Each town, while having the same overall quest structure still offers enough differences in the details that it feels like a worthwhile experience, and the whole Orcs vs Humans conflict is quite original.
     
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  15. KeighnMcDeath RPG Codex Boomer

    KeighnMcDeath
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    And its still bad after all this time? Yeah, CP2077 will be in a similar boat in the year 2035.
     
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  16. Celeb Literate

    Celeb
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    The classic "mod the shit out of the game to make it good". No, thanks.
    Last time, I played on the newest version, grinded my strength to absurd levels (400+), got master swordsman skill (made melee combat unplayable because of that) and decided to just fireball everything. The last decision made the game smoother and better. Seriously, the combat is not where the strength of Gothic 3 lies. I tried using alternative AI and alternative balance but the former just extends the unsatisfying battles and the latter makes character progression slower. So you are wasting more time with those.
     
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  17. PorkyThePaladin Arcane

    PorkyThePaladin
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    "got master swordsman skill (made melee combat unplayable because of that)" - you know, I read about master skills adding knockdown, which ruins combat, so for a while I stayed away from it, but then I decided to test it, and there is no knockdown now. I don't know if it's the Community Patch or the Update Pack that removes it, but master skill actually works normally now. One of many improvements from the mods.
     
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  18. Celeb Literate

    Celeb
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    It's probably the Update Pack. Most people play on Community Patch since it is included in all newer copies of the game.
     
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  19. toro Arcane

    toro
    Joined:
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    > enter thread
    > currently playing gothic 3
    > i agree with most points but i need to finish it
    > exit thread
     
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  20. Malamert Magister Edgy

    Malamert
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    Who are you quoting?
     
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