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Company News The Knights of New Vegas: A History Of Obsidian Entertainment

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It's also very funny to me how Feargus Urquhart will say yes to Snow White, Dungeon Siege, and South Park, but give an arrogant "No way" to Star Trek. And good riddance. :smug:

Fucking Fat Faggot Urquhart!:x
 

mediocrepoet

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They've got two promising games on the way, and even just a few months ago, major publishers were knocking on their door: Urquhart told me he's been talking to Bethesda, Ubisoft, Warner Bros., and LucasArts.
Sounds like the roles have reversed. Is it safe to say now that Obsidian is the commercially successful superstar and BioWare is now in the dark struggling for its existence?

Has the apprentice completely surpassed the master, or do I speak too soon?

Maybe Obsidian could kick in a nice word with SEGA to help get Bioware/EA a contract to put out Alpha Protocol 2.
 

deuxhero

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Let's be fair to Sega, they've had LONG coming major financial issues.


Warner Bros?

DC Universe is the only property they own (including subsidies) I could even see remotely being a good material for an RPG.
 

IronicNeurotic

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Well, he said it involved pen and paper, not that it was fully pen and paper.

I got that impression as well. Lots of QA systems actually still involve P&P in some form.

Also this is about Internal QA. Publisher QA (which is usually the big one) was probably different. Still, it's a bit surprising they changed so late.


:lol: This is one of the most embarrassing things I've ever read about a veteran game development studio.

They weren't exactly a veteran game studio back then with one game released. The QA thing is more emberrasing.
 

Longshanks

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Well, he said it involved pen and paper, not that it was fully pen and paper.

I got that impression as well. Lots of QA systems actually still involve P&P in some form.

Pretty standard, especially for Agile development. It's easier to meet around a wall of bug cards than a computer screen, and it has greater visibility to all levels of employees.
 

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So they'd rather make barbie dream RPG than Star Trek RPG AND they'd rather make a south park RPG without getting paid than to make BG III for "only" 5-10 million?

Starting to see why all these game companies go out of business, won't be surprised if Obsidian is next.

I'd love some more star trek adventure games, but I am not sure how an RPG of it would work out. It has to be better than any possible South Park RPG, though, even if matt and trey do all the writing.
 

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So they'd rather make barbie dream RPG than Star Trek RPG AND they'd rather make a south park RPG without getting paid than to make BG III for "only" 5-10 million?
Please point out the paragraphs where they mention doing a barbie dream RPG and rather not getting paid after south park than doing BG3. Because it seems to me that you are talking out of your ass.
 

Cosmo

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Moribund talking out of his ass... That would be something new.
 

Moribund

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So they'd rather make barbie dream RPG than Star Trek RPG AND they'd rather make a south park RPG without getting paid than to make BG III for "only" 5-10 million?
Please point out the paragraphs where they mention doing a barbie dream RPG and rather not getting paid after south park than doing BG3. Because it seems to me that you are talking out of your ass.

Sounds like you don't read any of this stuff just to make dumb comments.

"One of those publishers was Disney, who enlisted Obsidian to design a video game prequel to Snow White and the Seven Dwarves." Oops snow white and seven dwarves, whatever. Think that may actually be more humiliating than barbie RPG, since at least with barbie you are just marketing to little kids not trying to present it like something half serious like dwarves or south park RPG.

"We've talked to the Bethesda guys more than once about doing games," Urquhart said. "They called me once about Star Trek, and I was probably being a little bit too much, too arrogant of a developer... This would've been like 2007—way before the movies—and it was like, Star Trek wasn't in a good place. I don't know what I said, but I now know it probably sounded arrogant."

So, he didn't want to do star trek. For the BG III thing read the next thread down, the star trek fumble is a bit weird but the BG III thing is hard to forgive. I find it hard to believe they could not have gotten it funded for less, or completed a decent game for less.

"Obsidian wasn't getting paid at this point, but the prospect of a South Park RPG was hard to resist, so Urquhart agreed to keep plugging away at it. They built a prototype set in a house from the show. You played as a generic kid, and you could change your race or clothes by hitting the trigger buttons. If you walked into the living room, you could find Randy Marsh in his underwear, playing Guitar Hero. If you went to the kitchen, you could pick up a spatula, which would then transform into an axe that you could use to smash things."

Seems like a wise use of your time to make a prototype game for free, for a product that seems really unlikely to be a success and is unlike anything you are known for, especially from black isle days which is your gimmick. I guess maybe they had hit rock bottom by then. Too bad they didn't spend time to make prototype of a real RPG of their own IP instead. I guess these software companies fly by night but it seems like a crazy way to work. They always seem to be starting from scratch on every game with no focus at all and no library development - they use a different engine every time and how is south park RPG stuff going to be used for something else?

And dear god, why is that "hard to resist" and not "an ungodly abomination"? Why? I like SP but there's just no demand for this, is there?

We're too good to make BG III for less than 25 million! We're too good for star trek, too! Whoops, now we have no funding at all, maybe if we work for free a while to get a demo together we can get this other fallback gig. Guess we have no choice now. Not to mention the lousy deal with F:NV that probably meant they made no profit at all just paid the rent and salaries for the time of development (hopefully). Doesn't seem like good business but who knows.
 

Infinitron

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Oh FFS. Just add this dumbshit to your ignore list, people. I just did.
 

Moribund

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EDIT: So you joined just to fap to PE, I didn't realize this until seeing you mention it in another thread. Not WL 2 or even DF, but PE. It truly stuns me. And you were immediately given a staff job. Wow the codex is truly the most hardcore RPG site.
 

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Moribund I'm good at reading, but you are bad at reading comprehension. The Snow White stuff happened in 2005, the Star Trek is 2007, so they didn't dropped ST in favour of Snow White.

As for South Park, not getting paid reffered to making the pitch prototype for the South Park company for free. And not that they don't get paid at all. They knew that SP is a popular franchise so they agree to build a prototype for free. Again, it was in 2009, while the BGIII stuff happened in 2007. Don't mix stuff up just to prove how dumb Obsidian were.

Wow the codex is truly the most hardcore RPG site.
It is, and we hate dumb newfags. :smug:
 

Infinitron

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The prototype was part of their pitch. Of course it was free. They don't get the contract and money until they present a successful pitch. That's just how it is when you're an independent developer.
 

Roguey

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:lol: This is one of the most embarrassing things I've ever read about a veteran game development studio.

They weren't exactly a veteran game studio back then with one game released. The QA thing is more emberrasing.
The leadership of Obsidian Entertainment is full of Black Isle veterans. They have no excuse not to have had a design document.
 

Lancehead

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The prototype was part of their pitch. Of course it was free. They don't get the contract and money until they present a successful pitch. That's just how it is when you're an independent developer.

Poor writing on the part of the author there giving an impression as if that's something developers don't do.
 

IronicNeurotic

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:lol: This is one of the most embarrassing things I've ever read about a veteran game development studio.

They weren't exactly a veteran game studio back then with one game released. The QA thing is more emberrasing.
The leadership of Obsidian Entertainment is full of Black Isle veterans. They have no excuse not to have had a design document.

They did have a design document. They are not talking about a design document or a vision document like they did it before.

a listed, documented set of guidelines for exactly how a game will be designed and developed

It's a specificiation. It's something that says: We do exactly that. This isn't all that standard. The Black Isle games and especially the rest of the industry have often games in which the focus can change drastically during development. AP was an extreme case here, but this is true even for bigger, well known games.
 

Infinitron

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:lol: This is one of the most embarrassing things I've ever read about a veteran game development studio.

They weren't exactly a veteran game studio back then with one game released. The QA thing is more emberrasing.
The leadership of Obsidian Entertainment is full of Black Isle veterans. They have no excuse not to have had a design document.

You could be right, but maybe "design documents" were done differently back in the 90s.

What can change the nature of game development?
 

Roguey

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They did have a design document. They are not talking about a design document or a vision document like they did it before.

a listed, documented set of guidelines for exactly how a game will be designed and developed

It's a specificiation. It's something that says: We do exactly that.
That's a design document. Calling it a "game specification" document doesn't make it not a design document. I've read several of these things, that's what they do: tell you specifically how you're going to make something.

Infinitron Seems doubtful: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Van_Buren_design_documents
 

Moribund

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They made the pitch, and they failed it.Then they spent many months making a working prototype for free.

You might make a detailed prototype for your own IP like troika did for something you're investing in already, but if every pitch consisted of doing a big portion of work it would be impossible to function. They also wouldn't point this out if it were the norm. Spend three to six months of work to get 18-24 months of work, who would do that? Either they were desperate, or else feargo has an inexplicable fixation on getting that game made.

Pitch is a job interview, you spend a week preparing and if they want more you tell them to get lost and move on to the next of your hundred pitch ideas.


Moribund I'm good at reading, but you are bad at reading comprehension. The Snow White stuff happened in 2005, the Star Trek is 2007, so they didn't dropped ST in favour of Snow White.

As for South Park, not getting paid reffered to making the pitch prototype for the South Park company for free. And not that they don't get paid at all. They knew that SP is a popular franchise so they agree to build a prototype for free. Again, it was in 2009, while the BGIII stuff happened in 2007. Don't mix stuff up just to prove how dumb Obsidian were.

Wow the codex is truly the most hardcore RPG site.
It is, and we hate dumb newfags. :smug:

The nitpicking on the design document and the post it notes are ok, though? You overestimate the competence of feargus, mr slamdunk greedy dipshit who seems to be the progenitor of most the badness at obsidian, with sawyer as the designer of badness. There's some great talent there but all the projects they've worked on almost may as well be totally different genres. The company is just a mess, it's not really up for debate.
 

evdk

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Infinitron.Postcount++

EDIT: So you joined just to fap to PE, I didn't realize this until seeing you mention it in another thread. Not WL 2 or even DF, but PE. It truly stuns me. And you were immediately given a staff job. Wow the codex is truly the most hardcore RPG site.
Joined to fap to PE almost two years before the announcement? That's some hard core prediction, Israeli Military Intelligence is truly top notch.
 

Infinitron

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I see a bunch of area design documents. What about the gameplay mechanics? That is what Feargus says was AP's problem.

What I'm saying is there may have been the idea at Obsidian for a while that "design" was making areas, quests and characters, and the gameplay mechanics were something you sort of made up on the fly (or, more commonly, inherited from the game whose sequel you were developing)

Remember, Josh Sawyer was not really involved with AP. :smug:
 

Roguey

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I see a bunch of area design documents. What about the gameplay mechanics? That is what Feargus says was AP's problem.

What I'm saying is there may have been the idea at Obsidian for a while that "design" was making areas, quests and characters, and the gameplay mechanics were something you sort of made up on the fly.

Remember, Josh Sawyer was not really involved with AP. :smug:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3384/the_anatomy_of_a_design_document_.php
October 19, 1999
The purpose of design documentation is to express the vision for the game, describe the contents, and present a plan for implementation. A design document is a bible from which the producer preaches the goal, through which the designers champion their ideas, and from which the artists and programmers get their instructions and express their expertise.
...
In broad terms, the purpose of documentation is to communicate the vision in sufficient detail to implement it. It removes the awkwardness of programmers, designers and artists coming to the producers and designers and asking what they should be doing. It keeps them from programming or animating in a box, with no knowledge of how or if their work is applicable or integrates with the work of others. Thus it reduces wasted efforts and confusion.
Documentation means different things to different members of the team. To a producer, it's a bible from which he should preach. If the producer doesn't bless the design documents or make his team read them, then they are next to worthless. To a designer they are a way of fleshing out the producer's vision and providing specific details on how the game will function. The lead designer is the principle author of all the documentation with the exception of the technical specification, which is written by the senior programmer or technical director. To a programmer and artist, they are instructions for implementation; yet also a way to express their expertise in formalizing the design and list of art and coding tasks. Design documentation should be a team effort, because almost everyone on the team plays games and can make great contributions to the design.
No. fucking. excuse.
 

IronicNeurotic

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They did have a design document. They are not talking about a design document or a vision document like they did it before.

a listed, documented set of guidelines for exactly how a game will be designed and developed

It's a specificiation. It's something that says: We do exactly that.
That's a design document. Calling it a "game specification" document doesn't make it not a design document. I've read several of these things, that's what they do: tell you specifically how you're going to make something.

It's not. A design document explains what they're making. It's not a guideline HOW to make it.

As I understand it, in a specification document is stuff like: It's going to be an open-world rpg, we're focusing on x feature, we're structuring dialog this way,.........................

It's general stuff, like the Alpha Protocol example with we're making it 40%Shooter, 60% RPG whatever. They're basically planning out the development itself exactly in it. And they are commiting to it.
 

Infinitron

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No. fucking. excuse.

I'm not making excuses. I'm just explaining how this may have happened. RPGs, especially those based on a licensed or existing system, can get away with things that an original multi-genre third person shooter game could not, in terms of design.
 

IronicNeurotic

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October 19, 1999
The purpose of design documentation is to express the vision for the game, describe the contents, and present a plan for implementation. A design document is a bible from which the producer preaches the goal, through which the designers champion their ideas, and from which the artists and programmers get their instructions and express their expertise.
...
In broad terms, the purpose of documentation is to communicate the vision in sufficient detail to implement it. It removes the awkwardness of programmers, designers and artists coming to the producers and designers and asking what they should be doing. It keeps them from programming or animating in a box, with no knowledge of how or if their work is applicable or integrates with the work of others. Thus it reduces wasted efforts and confusion.
Documentation means different things to different members of the team. To a producer, it's a bible from which he should preach. If the producer doesn't bless the design documents or make his team read them, then they are next to worthless. To a designer they are a way of fleshing out the producer's vision and providing specific details on how the game will function. The lead designer is the principle author of all the documentation with the exception of the technical specification, which is written by the senior programmer or technical director. To a programmer and artist, they are instructions for implementation; yet also a way to express their expertise in formalizing the design and list of art and coding tasks. Design documentation should be a team effort, because almost everyone on the team plays games and can make great contributions to the design.
No. fucking. excuse.


A *vision* is not something specific.

And we KNOW they had a design doc for KOTOR II and NWN II

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=103

So seriously, they talk about something different.
 

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