Decline The lack of sincerity in RPGs (and gaming in general)

[Hydro]

Arguing with religious people especially of abrahamic ways is a sure way to waste one’s time.

 

[JarlFrank]

To see what Christian "moral codes" in media look like, compare American movies from the 1930s (bound by the Hayes code and heavily censored) with movies from the Third Reich, a dictatorship that nevertheless had WAY more artistic freedom! Or French movies, or Italian. Anywhere else in the world made more interesting movies than the US.

German, French, Italian movies of the time will show violent death on screen, have a casual bare-chested woman scene played for laughs, etc.
Meanwhile in US films of the time all of that was a big no-no. In 1931's Dracula adaptation, they cut away every time the titular vampire is about to bite someone, and the final scene where Van Helsing drives a stake through his heart also cuts away just before he hits the stake with a hammer, even though the scene itself is filmed from a distance. Can't even imply the act happening on screen! Also they removed a couple of death screams because those would have been too shocking! Oh no!

European cinema was vastly superior to American at the time because of how heavily the code restricted content.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Arguing with religious people especially of abrahamic ways is a sure way to waste one’s time.

Religious people are divided into limited fanatics and open contemplatives, but conversations with atheists always revolve around the topic of how intelligent, independent and better they are, so it is difficult for any argument to get past this barrier.

- Dude, doesn't this seem inappropriate to you?
- LISTEN, YAHVIC GARBAGE. I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR DESERT BELIEFS.
- Yes, but it's a goat...
- IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE FOR THE VIEW IN YOUR FUNNY BOOK THAT SEX WITH AN UNDERAGE GOAT IS INAPPROPRIATE ?
- No, but you see, the law...
- IT MAKES MR WANT TO PUKE WHEN I tHINK ABOUT THE CENTURIES OD ENSLAVEMENT OF LEGAL SYSTEMS BY YOUR UNPROVEN, RIDICULUS, ABRAHAMIC BELIEFS. I AM ABOVE THIS. I AM SELF-SUFFICIENT. I AM MY OWN LAW. I AM ETHICAL.
- Maybe there were some practical reasons for it, such as disease transmission....
- YOU BELIEVE IN GRANDPA ON THE CLOUD. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IS PRACTICAL. NOW GIVE ME THAT GOAT!


Moreover, contemporary Western cinematography is exclusively atheistic, but somehow this does not bring any interesting works. On the contrary.

 

[Butter]

To see what Christian "moral codes" in media look like, compare American movies from the 1930s (bound by the Hayes code and heavily censored) with movies from the Third Reich, a dictatorship that nevertheless had WAY more artistic freedom! Or French movies, or Italian. Anywhere else in the world made more interesting movies than the US.

German, French, Italian movies of the time will show violent death on screen, have a casual bare-chested woman scene played for laughs, etc.
Meanwhile in US films of the time all of that was a big no-no. In 1931's Dracula adaptation, they cut away every time the titular vampire is about to bite someone, and the final scene where Van Helsing drives a stake through his heart also cuts away just before he hits the stake with a hammer, even though the scene itself is filmed from a distance. Can't even imply the act happening on screen! Also they removed a couple of death screams because those would have been too shocking! Oh no!

European cinema was vastly superior to American at the time because of how heavily the code restricted content.

The Hayes Code coincided with all the greatest Hollywood movies. By pure coincidence I'm sure. Gone with the Wind? Citizen Kane? The Big Sleep? The Searchers? Double Indemnity? Singin' in the Rain? Yeah, imagine how much better those movies would have been if the (((producers))) could've inserted gratuitous nudity.

 

[JarlFrank]

Those movies you cited were all from the 40s, when filmmakers had learned how to work around the code's limitations, and had become more proficient at their craft in general.
But from what I've seen of 1930s movies, American ones were far worse than European ones from the same decade.
Which is weird because there are some pretty great American silent films in the 1920s.

 

[Butter]

Those movies you cited were all from the 40s, when filmmakers had learned how to work around the code's limitations, and had become more proficient at their craft in general.
But from what I've seen of 1930s movies, American ones were far worse than European ones from the same decade.
Which is weird because there are some pretty great American silent films in the 1920s.

Aren't you German? Surely you're aware of the decadent filth put out during the Weimar period? Creative fields naturally attract shitlibs and Jews. You either put restrictions on their creative output or you get subversion.

 

[JarlFrank]

Yes, I'm German and if you read my post you can see that I particularly mentioned the movie output of the Third Reich as superior to America's in the 1930s.
National Socialist morality is also very different from the prude Christian morality.

 

[Ascetic]

We'll base society's morals on our subjective opinions of who made the best movies during a very specific period of the 20th century. True movie-based morality has never been tried!

 

[Damned Registrations]

The classic 'freedoms for me, but not for thee' of the religious fundie. How dare they kick my kid out of school for calling another kid a fag or a nigger? UNCONSTITUTIONAL! REEEEEE. But of course 'pussy' should get you expelled, what if my poor innocent child were to look that up and immediately be sent straight to hell?



Carlin got arrested for that one. If not for him calling out this retarded shit who knows what kind of censorship we'd have today. Fuck the censors. If you don't want to hear or see something, turn it off, shithead.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

The classic 'freedoms for me, but not for thee' of the religious fundie. How dare they kick my kid out of school for calling another kid a fag or a nigger? UNCONSTITUTIONAL! REEEEEE. But of course 'pussy' should get you expelled, what if my poor innocent child were to look that up and immediately be sent straight to hell?



Carlin got arrested for that one. If not for him calling out this retarded shit who knows what kind of censorship we'd have today. Fuck the censors. If you don't want to hear or see something, turn it off, shithead.

You don't have to be religious to call others "faggots" or "niggers." Nor to be a hypocrite.

 

[PrK]

The Hayes Code coincided with all the greatest Hollywood movies. By pure coincidence I'm sure. Gone with the Wind? Citizen Kane? The Big Sleep? The Searchers? Double Indemnity? Singin' in the Rain? Yeah, imagine how much better those movies would have been if the (((producers))) could've inserted gratuitous nudity.

While I strongly prefer pre-60s Hollywood to the subsequent output, the pre-Code and silent eras of Hollywood are some of the best in cinema history. The gratuitous nudity came more as a result of the changing social norms and not because there wasn't enough censorship still in films.

But from what I've seen of 1930s movies, American ones were far worse than European ones from the same decade.

There are a lot of great films, especially the comedies and musicals from the early 30's (the Hayes Code only actually started to affect films on 1934), but after that as well.

 

[JarlFrank]

I haven't seen many 30s Hollywood films yet, so I'm open to changing my mind. Those I've seen (mostly the Universal monster movies which are considered classics of the genre) were vastly inferior to 1920s films from the country, and it's often claimed that early sound film was a downgrade from silent film when it comes to pacing and cinematography.

If you give me some recommendations for 1930s Hollywood films, I'll be sure to put them on my list. I watch one film every week with a pal from the US, and we love discovering great old stuff. We started out with 1980s B-movies over a year ago, and at this point we've seen a couple of 1940s noirs and 20s silent films (mostly German, some Swedish and Danish, we got an American one starring Douglas Fairbanks scheduled in 3 weeks), both of which we quite enjoyed. Maybe we just had bad luck with our picks for 1930s US-made films so far.

 

[Butter]

I haven't seen many 30s Hollywood films yet, so I'm open to changing my mind. Those I've seen (mostly the Universal monster movies which are considered classics of the genre) were vastly inferior to 1920s films from the country, and it's often claimed that early sound film was a downgrade from silent film when it comes to pacing and cinematography.

If you give me some recommendations for 1930s Hollywood films, I'll be sure to put them on my list. I watch one film every week with a pal from the US, and we love discovering great old stuff. We started out with 1980s B-movies over a year ago, and at this point we've seen a couple of 1940s noirs and 20s silent films (mostly German, some Swedish and Danish, we got an American one starring Douglas Fairbanks scheduled in 3 weeks), both of which we quite enjoyed. Maybe we just had bad luck with our picks for 1930s US-made films so far.

Some of the essentials from after the Hayes Code started:

Stagecoach
Top Hat
The Adventures of Robin Hood
Ninotchka
The Awful Truth
You Can't Take It with You
Bringing Up Baby
My Man Godfrey
Mutiny on the Bounty
After the Thin Man (sequel to pre-code The Thin Man, which is also essential)

 

[PrK]

Off-topic as it may be, I'd be happy to.

I haven't seen many 30s Hollywood films yet, so I'm open to changing my mind. Those I've seen (mostly the Universal monster movies which are considered classics of the genre) were vastly inferior to 1920s films from the country, and it's often claimed that early sound film was a downgrade from silent film when it comes to pacing and cinematography.

Yeah exactly, early sound films were very obviously a downgrade in many aspects, but that's mostly solved by 1930. And the Universal monster ones are certainly far from the best films.

If you give me some recommendations for 1930s Hollywood films, I'll be sure to put them on my list. I watch one film every week with a pal from the US, and we love discovering great old stuff. We started out with 1980s B-movies over a year ago, and at this point we've seen a couple of 1940s noirs and 20s silent films (mostly German, some Swedish and Danish, we got an American one starring Douglas Fairbanks scheduled in 3 weeks), both of which we quite enjoyed. Maybe we just had bad luck with our picks for 1930s US-made films so far.

Nice, Douglas Fairbanks is the GOAT, you can't go wrong with any of his swashbuckling films. Now for 30's stuff, I assume I needn’t mention stuff like Gone with the Wind, The Wizard of Oz, Stagecoach or the Marx Brothers' and Chaplin’s ones.

It'd certainly be worthwhile to watch The Public Enemy (1931) + Scarface (1932) and I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang (1932), the grandfathers of the modern gangster and prison genres respectively.
I think you’d be very amused with the very good The Big Trail (1930) starring a young John Wayne, for one of the antagonists is 100% one of the characteristic guards from Thief voice wise.
There is the The Trail of the Lonesome Pine (1936) adaptation that I really liked which is I believe the first outdoors Technicolor film.
You have Errol Flynn (the discount Fairbanks) in films like Captain Blood (1935) and The Adventures of Robin Hood (1938) (themselves retreads of Fairbanks’ films) which are very good nonetheless.
I believe you have to check out Leo McCarey, especially Make Way for Tomorrow (1937) - I will dare say equally great to the one it inspired (Ozu’s Tokyo Story) - and The Awful Truth (1937) - a very smart comedy with the incredible Cary Grant. Speaking of Grant, you have a lot of great comedies like Holiday (1938) and the archetypal screwball comedy, Bringing Up Baby (1938).
I assumed you’ve seen/are aware of Stagecoach, but another great John Ford film is The Informer (1935), concerning the Irish War of Independence.
Depending on how you feel about von Sternberg or Dietrich, they made their best films in this decade, like The Scarlet Empress (1934).
It Happened One Night (1934) is a true classic, a pre-Code comedy by Frank Capra.
For animation I can’t recommend the Fleischers’ Betty Boop output enough, especially those featuring Cab Calloway, like The Old Man of the Mountain (1933) and Snow-White (1933).
My favourites though are probably the musicals. Anything by choreographer Busby Berkeley is unsurpassed to this day, especially Gold Diggers of 1933 (1933, duh) and my absolute favourite, Footlight Parade (1933), a musical comedy with incredibly sharp, fast dialogue with the always excellent James Cagney and some insane musical numbers by Berkeley. Speaking of Cagney, besides this and the aforementioned The Public Enemy, he’s also in The Roaring Twenties (1939) by the great Raoul Walsh. One of my other favourite musicals are the singing musicals with the amazing Maurice Chevalier, the top ones imo being Love Me Tonight (1932) and The Merry Widow (1934). Speaking of Ernst Lubitsch, this decade also has his top films, great comedies including Trouble in Paradise (1932), Bluebeard's Eighth Wife (1938) and Ninotchka (1939). And to close with the dancing musicals, you have to indulge in the unsurpassed Fred Astaire, with his top one being… Top Hat (1935).

Ok maybe I went a little overboard, but these are all imo great films, there are even more good to great Hollywood films from this decade, and that’s just ones I’ve personally watched.

edit:

Some of the essentials from after the Hayes Code started:

My Man Godfrey
After the Thin Man (sequel to pre-code The Thin Man, which is also essential)

I can't believe I did my man William Powell dirty like that by forgetting to include these, but yes.

 

[rojay]

You've had some excellent suggestions, but I'd venture into the 40s. The Maltese Falcon is one of the best movies ever made. Casablanca is not far behind.

 

[Sweeper]

The Maltese Falcon is one of the best movies ever made. Casablanca is not far behind.

Those aren't even the best of Bogie kino.

 

[Alex]

The Hayes Code coincided with all the greatest Hollywood movies. By pure coincidence I'm sure. Gone with the Wind? Citizen Kane? The Big Sleep? The Searchers? Double Indemnity? Singin' in the Rain? Yeah, imagine how much better those movies would have been if the (((producers))) could've inserted gratuitous nudity.

While I strongly prefer pre-60s Hollywood to the subsequent output, the pre-Code and silent eras of Hollywood are some of the best in cinema history. The gratuitous nudity came more as a result of the changing social norms and not because there wasn't enough censorship still in films.
(....)

I just want to comment further that, going by what Mr. E. Michael Jones has to say on this, that wasn't the case at all. Hollywood was always pushing for avoiding the code and only because back then Catholics were united in how they acted did this have enough clout to force them to obey it. And, of course, much of the changes in societal norms came about because movies and tv started pushing looser morality on people.

 

[NecroLord]

What bugs me is the sheer lack of reading and fully delving into the settings the developers intend to adapt into video game format.

Chris Avellone spent months getting into Star Wars even though he never was a big fan, and ultimately ended writing one of the greatest Star Wars stories ever written.

Tim Cain and Troika bros also made Vampire: Bloodlines, and while its combat and system are not a one hundred percent accurate adaptation of the Vampire: The Masquerade tabletop game, its story, characters and setting are so faithful to the source material.

Devs just do not read books and do not exert themselves trying to be creative anymore.

 

[Fedora Master]

You have to remember that writing for games is the absolute lowest level an aspiring author could sink to. These people all want to write plays and meaningful movies, they're not doing this gaming shit because they enjoy the hobby. They just lack the connections and skills to do anything else.

 

[Fedora Master]

The Hayes Code coincided with all the greatest Hollywood movies. By pure coincidence I'm sure. Gone with the Wind? Citizen Kane? The Big Sleep? The Searchers? Double Indemnity? Singin' in the Rain? Yeah, imagine how much better those movies would have been if the (((producers))) could've inserted gratuitous nudity.

While I strongly prefer pre-60s Hollywood to the subsequent output, the pre-Code and silent eras of Hollywood are some of the best in cinema history. The gratuitous nudity came more as a result of the changing social norms and not because there wasn't enough censorship still in films.
(....)

I just want to comment further that, going by what Mr. E. Michael Jones has to say on this, that wasn't the case at all. Hollywood was always pushing for avoiding the code and only because back then Catholics were united in how they acted did this have enough clout to force them to obey it. And, of course, much of the changes in societal norms came about because movies and tv started pushing looser morality on people.

Hollywood had been a 100% Jewish product from the start and if greater society had let them, they would have carried on the legacy of Weimar Germany without a second thought. They still do, just on the down-low. The main goals of Hollywood have always been to make money and abuse the goyim mentally and physically

 

[Fedora Master]

These people are on the same level as Chuck Tingle but without the self awareness.