The Legend of Heroes Thread - Trails of Cold Steel in the Sky

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Playable characters don't die.

I'm trying to think of characters who died and didn't come back as a ghost or a phantasm or something, and the only ones I can think of are Otto, Gideon, and Vulcan.

That's not really what's being complained about here, but even still, how many RPGs can you think of where playable characters are killed off for good? Because I can't think of many.

• Final Fantasy IV
• Final Fantasy V
• Final Fantasy VI
• Final Fantasy VII
• Final Fantasy IX
• Final Fantasy X
• Final Fantasy XV
• The Last Remnant
• Suikoden 1
• Suikoden 2
• Suikoden 3
• Suikoden 5
• Fire Emblem 4
• Valkyria Chronicles 1
• Valkyria Chronicles 4

 

[Lyre Mors]

That's not very many.

Also, for the sake of this conversation, I'd remove any where said character dies at the end of a self-contained game.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

That's still 12 games

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

But characters do die and stay dead...

That's not really what's being complained about here,

Indeed, the complaint is simple, overuse of a bad plot device.

 

[Rean]

If you see people complaining on steam forums or here it's not a non-issue, that's all your head, the problem with using resurrection as plot device is that it removes all stakes from story telling, the end, ditto, and should need no further explanation but apparently it does, from the moment a character comes back to life all emotional investment in his death is gone, you can only use it so much, then whichever characters dies next won't die, so you are just wasting time, 0 investment from reader or player, and if characters can't die then there is no point to any adventure because there will be no punishment for failure, why even have story then just make a dungeon.

Calm the fuck down, you just posted 126 words without a single stop.

The gameplay connection is when the player loses a battle. How does losing a character in a cutscene affect your gameplay exactly?

And why is player-controlled character death such an important point for believability and verisimilitude for you when it comes to the series? Would you feel better if you never got to control those characters? This all seems like a pretty forced criticism. There has been plenty of death, the main villains of all 3 arcs are dead.

• Final Fantasy IV
• Final Fantasy V
• Final Fantasy VI
• Final Fantasy VII
• Final Fantasy IX
• Final Fantasy X
• Final Fantasy XV
• The Last Remnant
• Suikoden 1
• Suikoden 2
• Suikoden 3
• Suikoden 5
• Fire Emblem 4
• Valkyria Chronicles 1
• Valkyria Chronicles 4

You can only compare Kiseki in good faith with other series that also feature consistent storytelling in the same setting, so only Suikoden semi-counts from your list. In any of those other games, characters are immaterial in comparison since their only impact is part of a singular experience.

 

[Lyre Mors]

This all seems like a pretty forced criticism.

And I think you hit the nail on the head right there.

I tend to agree the resurrection trope is overused in the series, but the fact that a good deal of major characters die and stay dead throughout kind of renders the argument that the narrative as a whole is ruined because of said trope moot. If characters die, characters die, whether that trope is present or not. My first post in this thread today was me attempting to state that fact.

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

The gameplay connection is when the player loses a battle. How does losing a character in a cutscene affect your gameplay exactly?

And why is player-controlled character death such an important point for believability and verisimilitude for you when it comes to the series? Would you feel better if you never got to control those characters? There has been plenty of death,the main villains of all 3 arcs are dead.

Player-controlled character death is not being talked about, number of deaths is not what is being talked about, losing a character in a cutscene is not what is being talked about.
I don't even know what you mean by "The gameplay connection is when the player loses a battle." I've made clear what my criticism is, overuse of a plot device that destroys the story, the plot the narrative, if you then ask how does "a cutscene affect your gameplay exactly?" I've also answered this question technically time spent on character is gameplay, emotionally it really just feels like shit to have my time wasted.

This all seems like a pretty forced criticism.

Yep gonna waste my time making shit up to hate on a game.

 

[Rean]

There's always a lot to criticize in fiction with this much going on.

Personally, I was upset that Ash's actions never got him punished. But it's not like the thing was an irreconcilable event anyway, as we have seen multiple times now that Emperor Eugent is forgiving of pretty much any behavior and admits to not holding Ash responsible for wanting revenge.
I also don't know if I'm 100% happy with how Crow came back, but the explanation was 'good enough'. Magic. Whatever, man.

But exactly because there are so many characters and storylines present, you can afford to suspend your disbelief a few times as long as the core experience isn't compromised.

 

[Rean]

Yep gonna waste my time making shit up to hate on a game.

Neither I nor Jinn said anything to that extent, which is why we're continuing to engage with what you're saying.

If you wanted to waste your time, you could always start talking about Rean's hair like the clown squad.

 

[Modron]

If you wanted to talk about shitty hair you should talk about Kevin.

 

[Lyre Mors]

Shitty hair, best protag! Bring Kevin back, damn you Falcom!

 

[Reinhardt]

Shitty hair, best protag!

Estelle had beautiful hair!

 

[Maxie]

glad to see more people acknowledging cold steel is a pile of manure

 

[frajaq]

omg what a wacky little girl >.<

 

[Abu Antar]

Worst character in the series.

 

[Lyre Mors]

Like most of the characters in Cold Steel that I initially didn't care for, she actually grew on me quite a bit by the end of IV.

 

[frajaq]

Worst character in the series.

I can see why people would feel that way with her antics but I do enjoy her moments with Jusis

 

[Rean]

Speaking of Jusis, the way he grows combat-wise from CS1 to Reverie is something to behold.
Wish I could say the same for Laura, who's much stronger in the earlier games.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Speaking of Jusis, the way he grows combat-wise from CS1 to Reverie is something to behold.
Wish I could say the same for Laura, who's much stronger in the earlier games.

Laura shines in the first two CS games because of the smaller roster of characters. In Trails, characters are either 1. specialized for using craft damage, or if they're not then 2. you turn them into casters. In the first two CS games, the the four characters who naturally deal high craft damage are Rean, Laura, and Gaius. The other characters deal middling craft damage and can be built to deal more, but they're having to compete with Rean/Laura/Gaius who can already do much more, so you're incentivized to instead build those characters for their utility or for casting.

From CS3 onward, you have a bigger roster. Laura isn't just competing with Rean and Gaius for raw crafts damage, but also Ash, Duvalie, Estelle (her single-target S-craft with very high break damage), not to mention Reverie specific characters. And then in Reverie, everyone's S-craft gets upgraded to 4S and everyone gets an accessory that gives them +10 CP every turn, so it doesn't matter which character you bring since they're all doing at least 4S damage S-craft damage every 10 turns or less, so utility becomes more important (ie, Crow's range for evasion tanking, Rean being able to upgrade his S-craft damage to 5S+, Machias/Kurt/Lloyd/Sara for turn manipulation, etc).

As for Jusis' strength, he's not that strong in CS1 or CS3. Arts spamming is okay but not insane. It's in CS2, CS4, and Reverie when you gain access to incredible damage multipliers with Lost Arts and magic master quartz that he is able to one or two shot bosses on the hardest difficulty with his first art. Any other character can be built to do that, but Jusis is cooler. Also he has utility with Platinum Shield.

 

[Sarathiour]

Millum is arguably at damage bursting than laura in CS2, because all of her craft and S-craft got their power enhanced between 1 and 2. Gaius is a notch under Rean/Laura/Millum in 1 and 2, but he's the only character being able to rage, so he still got his niche, and howling heaven in CS3+ assure him a place among the most busted.

 

[frajaq]

Gaius really is useful when you can use him, being able to recover CP that fast helps a lot in Dungeons. However I just a powerful self buff for Laura and she upgraded her S Craft so I should use her more honestly

 

[cruel]

I've replaced Laura with Rixia for Reverie, whenever possible. Not only Laura is not as strong as she used to, but it doesn't help how one-dimensional they made her: 'you need to train harder', "I need to train more', just wtf.

Plus, Rixia has other 'benefits' as well.

 

[Rean]

Plus, Rixia has other 'benefits' as well.

Yeah, Rixia is top 10 strength-wise in Reverie. She was in my party 70% of the time. That stealth is just unfathomably good. Noel also ends up being really good.

 

[Lyre Mors]

Rixia also makes a phenomenal evasion-tank. Truly a top-tier character.

 

[frajaq]

the game definetly starts out slow but I liked a lot by the end, and the ending pretty much makes me want to start Cold Steel 2 right away, so off I go!