The Mass Effect 3/BioWare Thread

[Valestein]

The Protheans were finished the moment the Reapers came through the citadel and wiped out the seat of power for their empire and took control of the relays(a plot point ME3 conveniently ignores in several ways). It was made clear by the Prothean VI in ME1 that their "war" against the Reapers involved isolated worlds being picked off one by one. That they were somehow "close to stopping the Reapers" is just retconned nonsense.

Then there's other issues with the crucible such as why does Shepard need a cipher to understand a simple Prothean warning but any idiot and their mother can understand the crucible plans? How come the Reapers haven't destroyed all traces of this thing that has been worked on for millions of years by different races?

There's so many things wrong with ME3's plot that I couldn't list them all in one sitting no matter how hard I tried.

 

[Rhalle]

The problem with ME3 had nothing to do with the McGuffin that you 'funnel resources' into, it was with the Starchild appearing RIGHT AT THE VERY END who looks down his nose at you, spouts a load of illogical pseudo-philosophical bullshit, and you can't tell him to go fuck himself.

Oh, both were a problem.

The whole game is a problem. The shitty ending is just the inevitable culmination of a shitty game, which was obviously pushed out the door. It's why there is so much autodialogue, so little CnC, dialogue wheels with 2 choices, the same enemies over and over, graphics that have gone backwards, bad lip synching, shitty movement animations, all sidequests being overhead ambient dialoague, the terrible first-draft quest log, 1 hub world, why companions don't join Shepard when on the citadel.

And on top of that, one can surmise that whole story lines were stripped out for DLC, and that this added to the confusion; it's plain that that's what happened to the Javik DLC, if you've played it and seen how integral he is to the whole organics v. synthetics plot.

I'm also willing to wager that the EC is made of 3 'parts':

1. Content that was cut because they couldn't meet the deadline-- the images of Joker fleeing the Sol system at Hackett's instruction reveal this. Unless, I guess, I missed where Seth Green and Lance Henriksen went back into the Zioware recording booth.

2. A plotline or plotlines that were stripped to be sold as DLC. Some of this material has been grafted back into the game for the EC, and EA is going to write it off as a loss. This is probably why you have to do the Collector Base mission again.

3. Some epilogue stuff for fanwank farewells, which is where you will find all the "new" content that has been created since the beginning of April. Because there's no way Zioware made 2 gigs of new content in this amount of time.

Frankly I think this is probably a pretty good approach to fixing the problem as best as they can. Not that they care, of course. The point is to keep people buying more shit and going to see the shitty Mass Effect movie someday.

But I still think it's a pretty good choice to make the EC the way I think that they are.

Also, this would be their chance to really piss off the weirdos and freaky xenophiles and romance-mongering creeps by not giving them any of the utterly ridiculous and reprehensible stuff that they are whining for.

I doubt they'll take it, but boy it would be lulzy to see. I'm sure the weirdos will get just enough of a taste of the pander that they are waiting for, too.

 

[Rhalle]

Actually, I guess I did miss it:

http://www.g4tv.com/videos/58573/lance-henriksen-talks-about-the-new-mass-effect-3-ending/

But I still think I'm right. Cut content; DLC; and "new" stuff. Perhaps the new Hackett bits are in the epilogue sections proper.

 

[Jasede]

Lance Henriksen! Love the guy.

 

[circ]

The indoctrination theory isn't a conspiracy theory though, it is well reasoned and has evidence to support it in the games themselves. You hear a lot about indoctrination, whether it be Sovereign/Saren/Benezia in ME1, the derelict Reaper in ME2, Dr. Amanda Kenson in Arrival. You're told that hallucinations, strange noises etc are signs of indoctrination. In Arrival Shepard makes close contact with a Reaper device. In ME3 she starts seeing a boy, first on Earth where nobody else sees him, then in her dreams as she travels the galaxy. Then, at the end, she starts seeing stuff as she makes her way to the teleporter. Once on the Citadel she and Anderson see some weird shit before they get to the Illusive Man. There's YouTube videos which explain this better, but that is all the stuff that immediately springs to mind.

Except you're forgetting one thing. BioWare writers aren't that smart. Add to that constantly shifting writers that have no idea what the previous team had in mind. No set goals, making shit up as they go. Any hints of theory are an accident, and this point has been hammered by other posters but apparently keeps on getting ignored? I don't know.

 

[waywardOne]

Except you're forgetting one thing. BioWare writers aren't that smart. Add to that constantly shifting writers that have no idea what the previous team had in mind. No set goals, making shit up as they go. Any hints of theory are an accident, and this point has been hammered by other posters but apparently keeps on getting ignored? I don't know.

More than that. If you've worked in any "creative" field like writing, everyone thinks everyone's else's ideas are shit and, given the chance, would instantly erase or retcon the universe to their own preferences. Continuity is not a problem if they're all going the same direction. I'd gladly wager a year's income that more than half of the inconsistencies in the MEs are deliberate and ego-driven rather than a result of ignorance or confusion.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

It's free for those who get it within two years.

The downside? It's downloadable content. I've got a family member who's a pretty big Bioware fan (I know, I know) who was pissed as FUCK at Mass Effect 3. As in goddamn furious. He won't be able to play this though since he hasn't got broadband, so his console is offline. Also means he misses out on "On disc" DLC like the brothean.
Kinda feel bad for him since he's all storyfag and mostly not a combatfag (Tends to skip Bethesda RPGs since the story and dialog is so shit and barebones, whereas I prefer them because I just ignore that and fuck around) and Bioware promised him the moon with a game that would react to his choices and failed to deliver on that at all.

FUCKIN BIOWARES MAN FFS

 

[markec]

Im interested how good will future DLC sell since they put themself in the situation where you cant continue the game after finish and you must play DLC before last mission. Problem is in the fact that only ending is a bad ending and who is interested in fighting some additional enemy, getting a new weapon or new companion when they know that its all gonna end badly either way.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

It's free for those who get it within two years.

The downside? It's downloadable content. I've got a family member who's a pretty big Bioware fan (I know, I know) who was pissed as FUCK at Mass Effect 3. As in goddamn furious. He won't be able to play this though since he hasn't got broadband, so his console is offline. Also means he misses out on "On disc" DLC like the brothean.
Kinda feel bad for him since he's all storyfag and mostly not a combatfag (Tends to skip Bethesda RPGs since the story and dialog is so shit and barebones, whereas I prefer them because I just ignore that and fuck around) and Bioware promised him the moon with a game that would react to his choices and failed to deliver on that at all.

FUCKIN BIOWARES MAN FFS

Sorry, but unless he lives in North Korea I don't understand how he doesn't have broadband.

 

[Valestein]

The indoctrination theory isn't a conspiracy theory though, it is well reasoned and has evidence to support it in the games themselves. You hear a lot about indoctrination, whether it be Sovereign/Saren/Benezia in ME1, the derelict Reaper in ME2, Dr. Amanda Kenson in Arrival. You're told that hallucinations, strange noises etc are signs of indoctrination. In Arrival Shepard makes close contact with a Reaper device. In ME3 she starts seeing a boy, first on Earth where nobody else sees him, then in her dreams as she travels the galaxy. Then, at the end, she starts seeing stuff as she makes her way to the teleporter. Once on the Citadel she and Anderson see some weird shit before they get to the Illusive Man. There's YouTube videos which explain this better, but that is all the stuff that immediately springs to mind.

Except you're forgetting one thing. BioWare writers aren't that smart. Add to that constantly shifting writers that have no idea what the previous team had in mind. No set goals, making shit up as they go. Any hints of theory are an accident, and this point has been hammered by other posters but apparently keeps on getting ignored? I don't know.

One of the best examples of this is with the whole "Lazarus' sub-plot in ME2 where Shepard is killed and revived as a cheap means to fast forward two years and nothing else. There's no crisis of mortality, nor any exploration of other themes such as what may happen after death or the impact of such a medical breakthrough would have on society. That ladies and gents is what separates bottom of the barrel pulp schlock like the ME series and genuine science fiction. Any Sci-fi writer worth his salt would laugh in the face of Bioware's team of hacks over such idiocy.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Hackett told Joker to dtich Sheppard.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12693643/1

http://na.llnet.bioware.cdn.ea.com/...ages/about/extended_cut/extended_cut-01-p.jpg

Welp, there we have it, folks.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

The thing isn't out yet and it already delivers butthurt in spades.

 

[Menckenstein]

Can't wait for all the butthurt in full bloom, this thread was so great while we were watching Biotards fall all over themselves.

 

[DragoFireheart]

I'm going to die laughing if the EC makes the ending even worse than it already was. I would expect many fans to not like it just based on the fact that it's a DLC (free at least, imagine the shit storm if it had a price tag. EA isn't that stupid), but what I find funny is based on just this little bit along with all of the damage control (can't comment on their youtube pages on the video, can't make account to post in BSN if they were made after March 1 or something) leads me to believe that this DLC is going to suck.

I mean, is it that out of the question that this EC was originally planned to be a DLC with a price tag?

 

[RPGMaster]

 

[TheEntitledOne]

I can't wait.

And if the dlc is as bad as we are expecting I can see this thread reaching 400 pages in a couple of week.

 

[maverick]

The butthurt on BSN is fantastic and hilarious! This is getting even more entertaining than the game itself

 

[Oriebam]

I mean, is it that out of the question that this EC was originally planned to be a DLC with a price tag?

of course not

 

[sea]

One of the best examples of this is with the whole "Lazarus' sub-plot in ME2 where Shepard is killed and revived as a cheap means to fast forward two years and nothing else. There's no crisis of mortality, nor any exploration of other themes such as what may happen after death or the impact of such a medical breakthrough would have on society. That ladies and gents is what separates bottom of the barrel pulp schlock like the ME series and genuine science fiction. Any Sci-fi writer worth his salt would laugh in the face of Bioware's team of hacks over such idiocy.

I would say it was driven more by marketing than anything else. The whole SHEPARD DIES thing was integral to the game's promotion (as well as the suggestion he was somehow turned into a Geth due to Legion's armour, lulz) but was basically a pointless footnote in the rest of the story. Of course, they're still incompetent as hell that they chose not to do anything with the idea.

 

[Commissar Draco]

The butthurt on BSN is fantastic and hilarious! This is getting even more entertaining than the game itself

It's been since quite a time that reading about Bio games and butthurt they cause is more entertaining than playing them. Full Derp ahead EA!

 

[TheEntitledOne]

Shit that thread got closed, and not with a ding dong.

There are only dozens of butthurt threads left .

 

[TNO]

So looking forward to this.

 

[Gragt]

One of the best examples of this is with the whole "Lazarus' sub-plot in ME2 where Shepard is killed and revived as a cheap means to fast forward two years and nothing else. There's no crisis of mortality, nor any exploration of other themes such as what may happen after death or the impact of such a medical breakthrough would have on society. That ladies and gents is what separates bottom of the barrel pulp schlock like the ME series and genuine science fiction. Any Sci-fi writer worth his salt would laugh in the face of Bioware's team of hacks over such idiocy.

And why not? Yes, the whole death and resurrection is a plot device, but it works. Shepard dies, finds that the Alliance and Council abandoned him and now has to work with Cerberus. His allies, believing him dead and being mostly correct about it, scatter and he has to assemble a new team. We can safely assume that Shepard is too badass to dwell on something as trivial as a crisis of mortality, and the whole thing won't affect society because it was kept under wraps; most simply assume that Shepard was believed dead and was not actually dead. It simply works without any need to dwell on it and try to see something "deep" there, unless one is a fan of the charlatanry of Joseph Campbell. Most writers worth their salt, sci-fi or not, would recognise a good lark for what it is and there is no need to try to invoke them to your side. I was surprised to find Mass Effect 2's story to be one of the most enjoyable from Bioware simply because of its lack of pretense and self-awareness, and it also features some of the best characterisations I've seen in a Bioware game. Compare that to the first one (or pretty much any other Bioware game for that matter!) that took itself way too seriously and tried to clumsily impart heft where there was little to be found. Ironically, these trivialities would feel more at home in ME1's hamfisted script than ME2's lighter take on things. ME2 is fun, has a serviceable story, good pacing and a good cast of characters. Yes, it's not deep, it's pulp, it's not the Terminator 2 of video games, but it's simply enjoyable and that goes a long way.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

One of the best examples of this is with the whole "Lazarus' sub-plot in ME2 where Shepard is killed and revived as a cheap means to fast forward two years and nothing else. There's no crisis of mortality, nor any exploration of other themes such as what may happen after death or the impact of such a medical breakthrough would have on society. That ladies and gents is what separates bottom of the barrel pulp schlock like the ME series and genuine science fiction. Any Sci-fi writer worth his salt would laugh in the face of Bioware's team of hacks over such idiocy.

And why not? Yes, the whole death and resurrection is a plot device, but it works. Shepard dies, finds that the Alliance and Council abandoned him and now has to work with Cerberus. His allies, believing him dead and being mostly correct about it, scatter and he has to assemble a new team. We can safely assume that Shepard is too badass to dwell on something as trivial as a crisis of mortality, and the whole thing won't affect society because it was kept under wraps; most simply assume that Shepard was believed dead and was not actually dead. It simply works without any need to dwell on it and try to see something "deep" there, unless one is a fan of the charlatanry of Joseph Campbell. Most writers worth their salt, sci-fi or not, would recognise a good lark for what it is and there is no need to try to invoke them to your side. I was surprised to find Mass Effect 2's story to be one of the most enjoyable from Bioware simply because of its lack of pretense and self-awareness, and it also features some of the best characterisations I've seen in a Bioware game. Compare that to the first one (or pretty much any other Bioware game for that matter!) that took itself way too seriously and tried to clumsily impart heft where there was little to be found. Ironically, these trivialities would feel more at home in ME1's hamfisted script than ME2's lighter take on things. ME2 is fun, has a serviceable story, good pacing and a good cast of characters. Yes, it's not deep, it's pulp, it's not the Terminator 2 of video games, but it's simply enjoyable and that goes a long way.

However, it becomes an enormous issue when you realize that death of anyone else is treated in such a dramatic and permanent manner, when it has been shown that death in ME-verse is anything but that. And it's an issue the size of a giant version of Miranda's ass for ME3's plot where they're really trying to shitpush TEH DRAMA when it comes to character deaths.

 

[Gragt]

Haven't played ME3 and haven't read much about it, though from playing the demo it seems Bioware sadly went back to its roots. In any case I was specifically talking of ME2. Following that, I also don't know if there is any change to the concept of death in ME3, but it is quite clear in ME2 that despite Shepard's resurrection death is in no way made trivial. The specific goal of the Lazarus project was to revive Shepard and no one else, which drew considerable means and ressources, enough so that a shady organisation like Cerberus with seemingly unlimited ressources at its disposal is said to have taken a huge gamble with it. No one outside of Cerberus appears to know about it, it is unknown if it could be run again on someone else but it would likely be unpractical, and then there are many clinical conditions that may need to fulfilled to apply to the project because for all we know the whole thing was custom-made for Shepard. As far as I know, it was humanity's one-time shot to bend the rules and bring back their hero, and it likely won't be repeatable anytime soon and not for just anyone.