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The Master of Magic Thread

doomtrader

Novice
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
27
Hey,

Worlds of Magic is still under development, but we have released a demo version of the tactical combat map.
Please visit our site http://myworldsofmagic.com/ and try the web Arena or Download the standalone version for more quality preferences.
 

Zeus

Cipher
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
1,523
Yeah, but is it epic?

An epic, turn based, fantasy 4X game with procedurally generated maps, and a load of spells, races and heroes.

dudes count me in :eek:
 

baturinsky

Arcane
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
5,535
Location
Russia
A quick tip: Artificer retort is probably the best. You can make an unstoppable machine of death from any hero with crafted artifacts.
 

Smashing Axe

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
2,835
Divinity: Original Sin
As far as heroes are concerned, the Chaos Warrior seems to have the best stats overall. I've decimated eight sky drakes with him buffed up by himself.
 

baturinsky

Arcane
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
5,535
Location
Russia
Oh, completely forgot this: if you get Artificer AND runemaster, crafting ix at 1/4 cost. You can even craft for selling, if you don't have anything better to do with your spell power at the moment
 

free999enigma

Learned
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
172
History....Master of Magic History

Master of Magic is one of the most iconic games ever made. It defined a genre, refined another one, and for the past 20 years people have been trying to remaster its magic. So far, success has been variable.

 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
652
*sheds a tear*

I have to ask, though: Where did this myth come from that MoM was unplayably broken at release? I happily played the broken boxed version I'd purchased for years - in fact, I only played the patched version much, much later, when I downloaded it from some abandonware site because I wanted to play MoM and my copy was at my parents' place.
It was even less balanced and I'm sure it had some more bugs, but none made the game unplayable.
In fact, one change that annoyed me to no end was how the AI started to always cast the updated dispel magic spell in fights, removing ALL your permanent unit buff spells in one fell swoop.
Having to recast all that crap after each fight is very annoying.

Anyway, talking about Master of Magic:
Does anybody have a registered version of the MoM Multiplayer Shell? It was such a fun little tool, even when you weren't playing multiplayer - it had stuff like a terrain editor that was also neat when playing alone...
 

MilesBeyond

Cipher
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
716
Jumping on the discussion from before the thread was necro'd, I think that "best hero" is kind of a hard thing to answer in MOM. First, because whether one hero ends up being better than another can depend a lot on their random abilities, and second, because artifacts and enchantments can make even the weakest hero into a world-shattering titantic of destruction. For an uberhero strategy I definitely prefer Artificer and a bunch of Sorcery books. Sorcery has just got such amazing unit enchants. Magic Immunity, Flight, Guardian Wind, Wind Walking, Invisibility, and of course the all-important Spell Lock, something I'm increasingly finding it harder to live without given the AI's love of spamming Dispel Magic. Beyond that, you can enchant your weapons with Haste and Phantasmal. Getting double attacks that completely ignore defense is no joke, and will allow your hero to carve through just about anything.

Also with the 1.5 userpatch and it fixing diplomacy, Artificer can be nice because Enchant Item and Create Artifact are great trade bait.

Also, is anyone else a fan of designing wizards more around theme than strategy? I have certain races that go with certain starting setups in my mind. Death or Death and Sorcery are Dark Elves. Pure Chaos is Orcs. Death and Nature is Lizardmen. Life and Nature, or Nature and Sorcery, are High Elves. Pure Nature or Nature and Chaos are Barbarians. Pure Sorcery is Nomads.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
Also, Invisible Flying Warships. Invisible Flying Warships make mincemeat of just about anything. They're invisible so the enemy has no idea where they are, and thus cannot attack or dispel them, they have effectively unlimited ammo (99 shots in a 50 round battle, meaning even hasted, they won't run out of ammo in combat), they fly like the wind, and hit like a train. Few things are even capable of seeing them and fewer still are capable of touching them, and even fewer still can actually win the shootout.
 

MilesBeyond

Cipher
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
716
Yeah the more I play the game the more I become convinced that Sorcery is the most powerful school. Almost every single one of their Common spells is useful, they've got the most powerful summoning in the game, IMHO the best global enchants (Time Stop and Suppress Magic), the most game-breaking unit enchants, and some pretty awesome battlefield enchants (Blur, Mass Invisibility, Counter Magic). Their two weaknesses are a lack of global summons and a lack of direct damage spells, but both of those are pretty easily compensated for.

Life magic might be the best for pure ez mode (especially combined with Halflings) but Sorcery just seems incredibly good to me.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
Their two weaknesses are a lack of global summons and a lack of direct damage spells, but both of those are pretty easily compensated for.
And with the right build and some aggressive and lucky searching early on, it's possible to achieve something truly broken: Free summons both in and out of combat. It does not matter if you lack a variety of global summons if you can spam free infinite Sky Drakes, which can be moved infinitely across your entire empire with magic road, and flood every combat with infinite phantom warriors and air elementals.
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,218
Location
Bjørgvin
MoM sounds like the perfect game for those who think breaking a game is the most fun way of playing.
 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
652
I take that approach about, say the Paradox school of design, where everything is properly balanced and the only way to break out of the balancing straitjacket is exploiting loopholes and gaming the system.
MoM wanted you to have the cool toys, but also wanted you to always eye the other side of the fence (other magic schools / builds) where more cool toys awaited.
It just had so-much-stuff(tm).

That's the main thing I found lacking in all petender games. AoW3, for example, is very similar to MoM in many ways, but also more balanced and steamlined, which takes away from the experience.
 

MilesBeyond

Cipher
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
716
And with the right build and some aggressive and lucky searching early on, it's possible to achieve something truly broken: Free summons both in and out of combat. It does not matter if you lack a variety of global summons if you can spam free infinite Sky Drakes, which can be moved infinitely across your entire empire with magic road, and flood every combat with infinite phantom warriors and air elementals.

Ohh yeah, infinite Sky Drakes. There's a game-breaker right there. It's one of my favourites, too, since it does require a fair amount of skill and luck, rather than just being a magic "I win!" button. Well, I mean, getting to the point where you can cast them for free. Obviously once you reach that, yeah, you're unstoppable.

I take that approach about, say the Paradox school of design, where everything is properly balanced and the only way to break out of the balancing straitjacket is exploiting loopholes and gaming the system.
MoM wanted you to have the cool toys, but also wanted you to always eye the other side of the fence (other magic schools / builds) where more cool toys awaited.
It just had so-much-stuff(tm).

That's the main thing I found lacking in all petender games. AoW3, for example, is very similar to MoM in many ways, but also more balanced and steamlined, which takes away from the experience.

Yeah, I agree, but I think it's the singleplayer/multiplayer distinction. MoM would be an absolutely horrific multiplayer game in any sort of competitive environment. The massive imbalance in races and spells means that the meta would probably only consist of a few builds, and luck plays such a factor (in terms of what sort of neutral cities and encounter zones are in your territory) that games can easily become rapidly one-sided, and those together would lead to it being repetitive and frustrating.

Single-player is far more satisfying. The AI isn't going to break the game using cheesy strategies, so you don't have to worry about that, and the quality of your build becomes more about setting a personal difficulty level and experiencing new things.

One thing that I think MoM did really well that no other 4X game has yet to replicate is high-powered encounter zones. Some nodes and lairs on Myrror can take more firepower to bring down than enemy players, and I really like that a lot. MoM is the only 4X I've ever played where the first X remains fun and important throughout the entire game. Most games I hit a point where it becomes a slog because I've already won, and it's just going through the motions for twenty turns or so until that actually becomes formalized. MoM is the opposite - I'll refrain from finishing the game even when I could easily kill my opponents, just so I can scour the planes for new spellbooks and retorts. I rarely even actually make use of them, but it's fun to do. It also means that you've still got stuff to do if you prefer a more peaceful expansion style (and with 1.5 fixing diplo and either a lot of Life or enough Sorcery to get Aura of Majesty, peaceful empire-building is a viable thing).


I do think that Paradox is a bit of an unfair comparison, though. They're actually one of the best in terms of that sort of "lol balance" approach in my opinion. All their games have some countries that are hilariously overpowered, and some that will struggle to even survive. They've never taken the approach of "Well this little OPM in Africa should have as much chance of conquering the world as France because balance." Their questionable decisions seem to have less to do with balance, and more to do with them wanting their games to be more than blobbing simulators.
 

MilesBeyond

Cipher
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
716
The fist AoW was more similar, I guess, in that you could have invincible heroes.

I've actually never been clear on why AoW 1 was hailed as a successor to MoM, because in my mind it has waaaay more in common with Warlords. AoW 2 and 3 have definitely gone a more MoM-y route, but the original mechanically was way closer to Warlords.

However, I realize that you were talking in the context of gamebreaking, and AoW 1 was definitely like MoM in that respect. Flying units with unlimited ranged attacks, Physical Immunity, heroes that could be untouchable by like level 4, Free Movement Dragon Ships, Entangling Strike... man. So many ways to break that game. The main difference being that in AoW 1 it was often the units themselves that were broken, rather than the way you used them - in other words, the AI could cheese you almost as much as you could cheese it, making it feel less broken. Obviously the AI wouldn't intentionally do so, but it still wasn't super uncommon for an Undead AI to send doomstacks of Wraiths at you.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
AoW was definitely way more "Warlords" than MoM: All the points of interest were fixed on the map and there wasn't really anything you were going to do to expand across the map other than taking what was already there. 2 and up let you actually expand across the map, but...the AI wasn't actually good at it.
 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
652
Yeah, I agree, but I think it's the singleplayer/multiplayer distinction.

This is just a bad excuse. When you think competitive multiplayer strategy game, what's the most popular that comes to mind?
For me at least, the answer is StarCraft.
And SC2 had stuff that was only available in SP, not in MP.

Also, I didn't even think MP was so bad in MoM. I guess what I played didn't count as competitive, but ... honestly, I have a very hard time believing the audience playing a 4x game such as MoM in competitive multiplayer is anything but miniscule.

MoM is the only 4X I've ever played where the first X remains fun and important throughout the entire game.

I agree. While it can't count as a 4x game, the only game that comes close in keeping the exploration part interesting to me is Conquest of Elysium.

I do think that Paradox is a bit of an unfair comparison, though.

I disagree. Paradox go great lengths to inhibit playstyles they don't endorse and even out the board - think how every pygmy tribe now has a chance to westernize and become just as powerful - tech wise - as any european nation. Just one example.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
Yeah, I agree, but I think it's the singleplayer/multiplayer distinction. MoM would be an absolutely horrific multiplayer game in any sort of competitive environment.
Yes, but that's sort of a non-issue because MoM has no multiplayer. It was not designed to have it and clearly isn't meant to, because balancing that would sort of be nightmarishly hard, as the Dominions people tend to discover.
 

Gregz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
8,540
Location
The Desert Wasteland
I think that "best hero" is kind of a hard thing to answer in MOM.

It's not even close, it's Torin.

di030905.jpg
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
I dunno, Torin has no ranged attack and cannot obliterate his enemies with impunity from the other side of the map before they can even move.
 

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