Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Snorkack]

Does anyone have a link to the CGW review where Scorpia stomps on Might&Magic 2? All I can find is JVC's butthurt response letter (Letter).

 

[octavius]

Does anyone have a link to the CGW review where Scorpia stomps on Might&Magic 2? All I can find is JVC's butthurt response letter (Letter).

Page 28.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[octavius]

Surely Elemental magic is more important than Dark/Light? Lloyd's Beacon is the most crucial spell. So Druid or Sorceror. Downside of Druid is that it takes time before you can do the promotion quests, while Sorceror is probably the easiste one to promote.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Average Manatee]

Def sorcerer. The only reason to take Druid is as a sorcerer-lite that carries raise dead for when your cleric or paladin goes down (obviously you won't be able to raise yourself) or for buffs (already handled infinitely better by light/dark magic).

 

[Great Deceiver]

FYI: Stranger of Sword City is currently on 50% sale on Steam. Historical low price they say. If you like me then you want some blobber action but are not willing to go full hardcore with something like Elminage Gothic and don't want to go back to classic but less penetrable games. This game looks good for that kind of attitude. There's some anime BS but as I understand you can switch to using more tolerable graphics and portraits. I understand it's more like Wizardry but you'll probably like it too.

I really didn't like SoSC at all - mainly because of the floor layouts. They were complete garbage up until I just had to quit out of sheer boredom.

Re: cheese in M&M, I've always thought it was disingenuous to try to cheese such a simple system. M&M isn't a sophisticated game, and you're robbing yourself of part of the fun if you do that. For repeat playthroughs maybe, but I was never big on replaying games anyway, save for a few rare exceptions.

 

[T. Reich]

Surely Elemental magic is more important than Dark/Light? Lloyd's Beacon is the most crucial spell. So Druid or Sorceror. Downside of Druid is that it takes time before you can do the promotion quests, while Sorceror is probably the easiste one to promote.

Pope Amole II did a very nice solo druid MM6 let's play, albeit in Russian.
He argued that you want to postpone your promotions (at least the 2nd one) because they increase the level training costs considerably while not adding that much life+mana.
Remember, that there are no class/promotion limitations on skill progression in MM6 - if you can learn the skill, you can master it, as long as you meet the specific mastery requirements.

 

[Haplo]

Re: cheese in M&M, I've always thought it was disingenuous to try to cheese such a simple system. M&M isn't a sophisticated game, and you're robbing yourself of part of the fun if you do that. For repeat playthroughs maybe, but I was never big on replaying games anyway, save for a few rare exceptions.

Well, the hybrid real-time/turn based combat systems in M&M 6-9 feel so artificial and pathetic, that I've found no fun in them at all. Plus the number of enemies is just sick. Might as well cheese them to get trough that slog ASAP.
Note I enjoyed the combat in World of Xeen and loved the combat in M&MX.

 

[ilitarist]

Re: cheese in M&M, I've always thought it was disingenuous to try to cheese such a simple system. M&M isn't a sophisticated game, and you're robbing yourself of part of the fun if you do that. For repeat playthroughs maybe, but I was never big on replaying games anyway, save for a few rare exceptions.

It's one thing when cheese is about using exploitable mechanics or AI bugs or else. M&M6 felt like it's built on cheese. If I try to play in turn-based mode I can't move and it feels like I'm supposed to be able to move during combat in this game. Maybe there are some house rules you should follow to get "real" experience a la no rests in Baldur's Gate but it's a work of the designer to make me play like that. M&MXL had some cheese tactics too but those felt like rare exploits making you think you're being clever, there were no significant encounters that were a cakewalk because of cheese.

 

[T. Reich]

Here's how it works. You maneuver in real time and then switch to turn-based when you need to perform actions/found an advantageous position to make a stand.
Also, recovery time is doubled while you're moving.

 

[Haplo]

In short:

Here's how it works. You maneuver in real time and then switch to turn-based when you need to perform actions/found an advantageous position to make a stand.
Also, recovery time is doubled while you're moving.

In short: Awful.

 

[Maggot]

In short: Awful.

Still more fun than 3-5 combat.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Re: cheese in M&M, I've always thought it was disingenuous to try to cheese such a simple system. M&M isn't a sophisticated game, and you're robbing yourself of part of the fun if you do that. For repeat playthroughs maybe, but I was never big on replaying games anyway, save for a few rare exceptions.

It's one thing when cheese is about using exploitable mechanics or AI bugs or else. M&M6 felt like it's built on cheese. If I try to play in turn-based mode I can't move and it feels like I'm supposed to be able to move during combat in this game. Maybe there are some house rules you should follow to get "real" experience a la no rests in Baldur's Gate but it's a work of the designer to make me play like that. M&MXL had some cheese tactics too but those felt like rare exploits making you think you're being clever, there were no significant encounters that were a cakewalk because of cheese.

There's just no way to defend MMX's combat - especially if you try to consider that game as part of the M&M series, which has always had fast (if simple) combat. MMX has slow, plodding combat that doesn't benefit from the added complexity that the devs tried to add to the game - it's just a buff/debuff shitfest that plods along and ruins the pace of the entire thing.

I beat MM6 without cheesing or exploiting AI bugs the first time I played - I didn't kite with arrows, I didn't hide behind closed doorways spamming fire ring, I just played the fucking game. After a certain point, you become walking gods anyway, there's absolutely no need to min/max or cheese in that game.

 

[T. Reich]

In short:

Here's how it works. You maneuver in real time and then switch to turn-based when you need to perform actions/found an advantageous position to make a stand.
Also, recovery time is doubled while you're moving.

In short: Awful.

Just because you can't appreciate or understand something different doesn't mean it's bad.

 

[Reinar]

If one wants to play solo mm6, what would be THE class to do so? sorcerer due to access to both daggers and light/dark magic or something else?
How about mm7?

I am playing MM7 solo right now with a cleric. I choose that class because it's the only class that can get to grandmaster body magic. I wanted my protection from magic to save me from eradication effects as well, so I could kill one of the bosses near the end of the game. The promotion quests are fairly easy. For most of the game, I was using magic just to support and heal myself, killing stuff with mace or bow. Now that I am over lvl 70, have grandmaster dark magic with a skill level of 36, I am using spells to kill tough enemies - behemots, masters of the sword and such.

Killing Robert the Wise is impossible for me at the moment, but it's just a matter of time.
At the beginning, I was delaying leveling up. I went to the arena when I could, then slacked around Harmondale. I had several lord (toughest) arena victories at level 4. Then I jumped straight to lvl 15. Later I missed one of the main quests because I spent several months in a row training.

When I finish this game, I am going to start another solo game. This time as a paladin. I am going to try to fucking paralyze everyone with every hit of my mace. Master body magic will protect me from medusae and stuff. If Tolberti's immune to paralyze from mace, I won't finish the game, but I don't care.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Haplo]

Re: cheese in M&M, I've always thought it was disingenuous to try to cheese such a simple system. M&M isn't a sophisticated game, and you're robbing yourself of part of the fun if you do that. For repeat playthroughs maybe, but I was never big on replaying games anyway, save for a few rare exceptions.

It's one thing when cheese is about using exploitable mechanics or AI bugs or else. M&M6 felt like it's built on cheese. If I try to play in turn-based mode I can't move and it feels like I'm supposed to be able to move during combat in this game. Maybe there are some house rules you should follow to get "real" experience a la no rests in Baldur's Gate but it's a work of the designer to make me play like that. M&MXL had some cheese tactics too but those felt like rare exploits making you think you're being clever, there were no significant encounters that were a cakewalk because of cheese.

There's just no way to defend MMX's combat - especially if you try to consider that game as part of the M&M series, which has always had fast (if simple) combat. MMX has slow, plodding combat that doesn't benefit from the added complexity that the devs tried to add to the game - it's just a buff/debuff shitfest that plods along and ruins the pace of the entire thing.

Yeah? Well that's, like, your opinion, man.

 

[Artyoan]

I went ahead and started MM7. Initial thoughts:
-Alchemy is vastly improved. I've already used more potions than I did in all of MM6.
-The Emerald Island and Harmondale don't hold a candle to New Sorpigal. I've been to a handful of areas and none of them seem to have much to them. Feels drab as hell.
-The backstory feels disjointed. In MM6 we were adventurers that were whisked away from Sweet Water and getting back there was a nice background motive. In MM7 I get a castle that is in disrepair, we've pretty much been swindled, and the unknown individuals coming on shore has no connection to anything so far.
-I'm pumping Disarm Trap on my thief and still having most treasures/cabinets blow up in my face.
-I know training took a week in MM6 too but in MM7 it has me at July already. I don't care about the score or even the time passed all that much but it feels awkward.
-Is stealing ever worth using? Do I suffer anything if I get away with it without being found out?
-Promotion quests seems all over the map in terms of difficulty. Raiding the haunted mansion was easy. Fighting a dragon or a bunch of guards to steal a vase seem well beyond that.
-I'm using Grayface's patch but the music doesn't loop. I've changed some of the settings put it always just plays one time and then stops. Any ideas?

 

[Wayward Son]

Playing M&M 1: Secrets of the Inner Sanctum right now. Damn fun and addictive game. Only a few combats have lasted more than five turns. This makes the grinding in the beginning of the game not be that bad. The little bit that I've explored was good, the dungeon beneath Sorpigal is fun to wander around in. The enemies seem kinda varied, even in the very early game. Also, party wipes are the majority of this beginning part of the game. I've had probably close to a dozen of them, if not more. This is one of the most fun games I've played, especially recently. This seems like it could be my favorite game series from what I saw of it so far (MM1, MM6, and a little of 4).

 

[Average Manatee]

Make sure to give your casters decent Endurance and savescum a bit if you get horrible HP rolls on level up. Absolutely nothing sucks more than having your Sorcerer at single digit HP (and 2 AC) until their 4th level.

 

[Wayward Son]

Make sure to give your casters decent Endurance and savescum a bit if you get horrible HP rolls on level up. Absolutely nothing sucks more than having your Sorcerer at single digit HP (and 2 AC) until their 4th level.

A bit late. I'm at level 4 for everyone but my Robber and my Priest(I think it was my Priest). HP values are alright though. I just keep my casters both in the back row, s if they are getting damaged, I'm already fucked (although I had a cool moment where everyone but my Sorceror was unconscious, but I still won the battle).

 

[Average Manatee]

Wandering around you'll get lots of battles where the enemy surrounds you and can directly strike your back row. They love sniping sorcerers. Priests usually aren't that bad off since they can wear pretty heavy armor and a shield. Early game I actually put my Priest in the midline with the Robber since otherwise the Priest spends a lot of time doing nothing without a ranged weapon. Backrow goes to Archer and Sorcerer.

 

[Reinar]

and the unknown individuals coming on shore has no connection to anything so far.

You'll understand that near the end. When I first got to know wtf is going on, my mind was kinda blown away. That's also because I've seen the intro like 15 years ago but only managed to get to the final stages of the game some 3 years ago.

-I'm pumping Disarm Trap on my thief and still having most treasures/cabinets blow up in my face.

Strange, but once you hit a certain skill, not a single trap will ever harm you again.

-Is stealing ever worth using? Do I suffer anything if I get away with it without being found out?

I never used it properly. Just once, to steal a quest item from enemy I wasn't able to kill. I always have lot of gold anyway.

-I'm using Grayface's patch but the music doesn't loop. I've changed some of the settings put it always just plays one time and then stops. Any ideas?

I downloaded the soundtrack and I am playing it all on loop in Winamp. Not ideal, but at least something. I remember when I was playing the game back on Win98 or XP and the music worked properly. Stepping into Erathia and hearing it's soundtrack was fucking poetry. Barrow Downs as well. Tularean Forest, on the other hand, not at all.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG