Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Cryomancer]

Also,fuck that dungeon: Walls of mist,fuck that shit.

Both dungeons are cakewalks with invisibility mainly if you have a dedicated air magician in your party who can maintain invisibility for a long time. Tomb of VARN in other hands, was the hardest dungeon of my life

 

[Kliwer]

In my humble opinion a grid-based movement is much better way to design a blobber than a free movement. M&M 6-8 are shit in comparison to M&M 3-5. Dungeon exploration in former titles is much more interesting – with hidden chambers, teleport/jump/fly spells, spinners, teleporters, dark places etc. Dungeon crawling in M&M 6-8 is just a boring slog through hordes of enemies. In M&M 3-5 there are tons of wonderful puzzles and navigation challenges; a lot of them is only possible in grid-based environment. There is no single advantage of free movement, everything in M&M 6-8 looks clunky and stupid. It’s something like shit shooter or even shittier helicopter simulation (your team flies like fucking Apache, bombarding enemies with maverick rockets fire spells).

So I much prefer M&M X than M&M 6-8. Legacy is not as good as Isles of Terra or World of Xeen but still good.

 

[fantadomat]

the fact that i couldn't find a expert in disarm traps until 12 hours later in the game

After mm6 where expert precision solved virtually all of your trap "disarming" issues, I would understand why actually having invest into a skill would grind your gears.

Ahhh we do have quite a few gems joining in 2019. Fluent,Panda and now this one....

 

[fantadomat]

In my humble opinion a grid-based movement is much better way to design a blobber than a free movement. M&M 6-8 are shit in comparison to M&M 3-5. Dungeon exploration in former titles is much more interesting – with hidden chambers, teleport/jump/fly spells, spinners, teleporters, dark places etc. Dungeon crawling in M&M 6-8 is just a boring slog through hordes of enemies. In M&M 3-5 there are tons of wonderful puzzles and navigation challenges; a lot of them is only possible in grid-based environment. There is no single advantage of free movement, everything in M&M 6-8 looks clunky and stupid. It’s something like shit shooter or even shittier helicopter simulation (your team flies like fucking Apache, bombarding enemies with maverick rockets fire spells).

So I much prefer M&M X than M&M 6-8. Legacy is not as good as Isles of Terra or World of Xeen but still good.

Ahh grid movement it is not a bad thing,but it could be done better and more modern. Just look at operencia,they did it right.

 

[Darth Canoli]

In my humble opinion a grid-based movement is much better way to design a blobber than a free movement. M&M 6-8 are shit in comparison to M&M 3-5. Dungeon exploration in former titles is much more interesting – with hidden chambers, teleport/jump/fly spells, spinners, teleporters, dark places etc. Dungeon crawling in M&M 6-8 is just a boring slog through hordes of enemies. In M&M 3-5 there are tons of wonderful puzzles and navigation challenges; a lot of them is only possible in grid-based environment. There is no single advantage of free movement, everything in M&M 6-8 looks clunky and stupid. It’s something like shit shooter or even shittier helicopter simulation (your team flies like fucking Apache, bombarding enemies with maverick rockets fire spells).

So I much prefer M&M X than M&M 6-8. Legacy is not as good as Isles of Terra or World of Xeen but still good.

I agree on the indubitable superiority of Isles of Terra and Xeen, some counter examples aside (Dwarf Mines in Clouds), dungeon crawling is superior in the early trilogy.

Still, exploration and itemization wise, M&M VI and VII are better, character development as well, quests and a bit more of storyline, Arcomage too is a great addition and the UI was upgraded from average/annoying inventory management and not so efficient spellcasting (list) to a very nice grimoire with icons which allows to spot the spell you want to cast way faster.
And of course, the inventory management in VI+ is very good.

Also, even if VIII is way easier with mostly very small dungeons, most dungeons are very well designed.

Still, saying Legacy is superior to the 6-8 trilogy is an heresy.

• Retarded city mazes that didn't bring anything but a waste of time
• Retarded quests like the one where you have to count graffitis on walls ...
• Dumbed down character development
• Most interesting spells disappeared
• Backtracking as a core feature while monsters don't respawn
• Removed and nerfed most travel means (this + backtracking shows how retarded the dev team is)

Not everything is bad in Legacy, there is some interesting innovations, combat was mostly improved, i liked the artifacts gaining experience thing and exploration was alright but 15 years after the second M&M trilogy and Wizardry 8, i was expecting something way better from a AAA dev.

Isles of Terra > WoX > M&M VI and VII > M&M VIII and X > M&M IX

 

[Casual Hero]

They changed the stats in M&M X. I still can't forgive it for that.

And M&M IX, but we don't have to talk about that.

 

[Edmund Spenser]

MMX is fantastic, it just suffered from a serious lack of polish and gameplay testing due mostly to its massively hamstrung budget and time-frame. It feels like a game that was released while in Beta.

Given another year with a slightly larger budget and we'd still be talking about it today. I'm actually shocked that there still isn't any serious community modding for it.

Personally I'd rate it at least fourth: 6 > 7 > WOX > MMX

 

[Lacrymas]

There isn't serious modding because the Unity engine is notoriously shit and clunky for that purpose (and for a lot of other stuff), it must be manipulated/coded specifically to allow easy modding. But yeah, M&MX is a good game, it suffers mostly from the shit setting, and the lack of time and budget contribute to its ...rough edges.

 

[Mightmagic]

In my humble opinion a grid-based movement is much better way to design a blobber than a free movement. M&M 6-8 are shit in comparison to M&M 3-5. Dungeon exploration in former titles is much more interesting – with hidden chambers, teleport/jump/fly spells, spinners, teleporters, dark places etc. Dungeon crawling in M&M 6-8 is just a boring slog through hordes of enemies. In M&M 3-5 there are tons of wonderful puzzles and navigation challenges; a lot of them is only possible in grid-based environment. There is no single advantage of free movement, everything in M&M 6-8 looks clunky and stupid. It’s something like shit shooter or even shittier helicopter simulation (your team flies like fucking Apache, bombarding enemies with maverick rockets fire spells).

So I much prefer M&M X than M&M 6-8. Legacy is not as good as Isles of Terra or World of Xeen but still good.

I agree with you.
M&M 6-8 are less good than M&M 3-5 and M&M X.
Lots of lack, cuts and bad design choice and only to go with 3D real time mode.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

mm7 is meh by design, due to being designed around invis spell. At least it feels that way.
mm8 was interesting in 1st half, then it was getting boring quickly.

cant see how one can claim that both are better than mm6. Only meh stuff was fly spell that trivialized dragons and titans, while not giving you many indoor encounters with them. Basically 1 spell not to bother with most dangerous enemies

MM6 is way better than both MM7 and MM8,they're not even in the same league.

MM7 and 8 feels unfinished.

 

[T. Reich]

mm7 is meh by design, due to being designed around invis spell. At least it feels that way.
mm8 was interesting in 1st half, then it was getting boring quickly.

cant see how one can claim that both are better than mm6. Only meh stuff was fly spell that trivialized dragons and titans, while not giving you many indoor encounters with them. Basically 1 spell not to bother with most dangerous enemies

MM6 is way better than both MM7 and MM8,they're not even in the same league.

MM7 and 8 feels unfinished.

Because they technically were. Just check out how much dev time NWC had for MM6 (2+ years), MM7 (slightly over 1 year) and MM8 (10 fucking months!).
Also consider that NWC had to develop HoMM2 alongside MM6, and HoMM3 and all its expansions alongside MM7+8.
All the while 3DO kept haemorraging resources.
It's also quite obvious that MM7 was made to cash in on the HoMM3 fame (all the sprites and 3d animated environments), so the majority of resources went there.

 

[fantadomat]

MM7 is good and finished game,i have seen nothing unfinished. Only that the ending was a open for sequel that never came. MM8 is also finished even if it shorter,but that is because you could build pretty powerful party fast and early,also dragons. MM6 took that much time because they were building the engine. Still i do agree that MM6 is the best MM game.

 

[Storyfag]

I think the issue is the sheer size. MM6 is enormous, Free Haven feels like a real city, and so does Silver Cove. The "cities" of MM7 are sparse in comparison, at most the size of Mist or White Cap. MM8 has the same problem, but both MM6 and MM8 have a decent amount of side-quests. In the case of MM7 this drops to a pitiful amount.

 

[Lacrymas]

M&M 7 and 8 were pushed out the door early, no? I remember reading somewhere that someone was planning to have an M&M game every *year*, which is not enough for such ginormous games, so that's why they feel unfinished compared to M&M6. They aren't actually, I'm pretty sure they knew how much time they had before that deadline and organized themselves accordingly, but some stuff had to be reduced in size or scope obviously.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Ahhh we do have quite a few gems joining in 2019. Fluent,Panda and now this one....

Uhh, I didn't join in 2019.

 

[Storyfag]

M&M 7 and 8 were pushed out the door early, no? I remember reading somewhere that someone was planning to have an M&M game every *year*, which is not enough for such ginormous games, so that's why they feel unfinished compared to M&M6. They aren't actually, I'm pretty sure they knew how much time they had before that deadline and organized themselves accordingly, but some stuff had to be reduced in size or scope obviously.

Oh yes. It's not that they *are* unfinished. They *feel* unfinished when compared to MM6. They are much smaller, less detailed, and have less content. Though MM7 is the worse offender in my opinion.

 

[overly excitable young man]

What? Heard my name. From the ones i played it's clearly:
WoX>MM6>MM3>MM7=MMX>MM8

 

[octavius]

MM7 is good and finished game,i have seen nothing unfinished. Only that the ending was a open for sequel that never came.

The sequel was Armegeddon's Blade. But instead of the high tech faction using ancient weapons we instead got the ulta boring Elemental Conflux, thanks to some very vociferous crybabies in the HoMM community.

 

[Storyfag]

What? Heard my name. From the ones i played it's clearly:
WoX>MM6>MM3>MM7=MMX>MM8

Guten tag, Herr Panda. What are you doing outside the Politics subforum?

 

[overly excitable young man]

Where am i? I'm scared. Help me get back.

 

[fantadomat]

I think the issue is the sheer size. MM6 is enormous, Free Haven feels like a real city, and so does Silver Cove. The "cities" of MM7 are sparse in comparison, at most the size of Mist or White Cap. MM8 has the same problem, but both MM6 and MM8 have a decent amount of side-quests. In the case of MM7 this drops to a pitiful amount.

I agree with everything except MM7 having very few side quests. Tho it depends on how you re looking at it,if you talk about pure side quest,sure there is 13 if my memory doesn't mess with me. But they did have some pretty good promotion quests and with two sides having different ones. That was pretty original and interesting at the time. On a experienced replay MM7 might even feel a tad bit bigger because of how the utility spells like fly and town portal were blocked both my needing magic mastery and those masters being put behind very hard areas. While in MM6 you just had to save scum till you get the right spell in the guild . Anyway,both of those games are great and it really hard to say which one is better,for me they are on the same level. I never felt that any MM games are unfinished or being broken,excluding the last two pieces of shit. Sure MM8 was smaller and a lot easier,but it told a whole story and never felt unfinished,haven't seen a single bug in those games.

 

[fantadomat]

Where am i? I'm scared. Help me get back.

Tied at our sacrificial altar.....german. Maybe if we rip your hearth out we will get another good MM game,so stay put!

 

[overly excitable young man]

I would give my life for another MM like MMX, but Limbic is doing Tropico right now. Sad.

 

[fantadomat]

I would give my life for another MM like MMX, but Limbic is doing Tropico right now. Sad.

I would give away your wife to not see another garbage game like MMX!