The New DOOM Thread (2016)

[shihonage]

Yeah software mode in Quake2 is preferred by some. It gets rid of rainbow colors. If only Unreal's software mode did the same...

 

[Euronymous]

Honestly I use 3dfx mode for Quake II, I use this glide wrapper: http://www.zeus-software.com/downloads/nglide. I use software mode for the first Quake because of how the lighting looks and the disadvantages of GLQuake.

I doubt software mode for either games will get rid of the rainbow colours, for me using software mode triggered them which is why I ended up using that program I linked.

 

[shihonage]

Quake2 could not implement colored lighting in software, which is the reason for a more cold, sterile look.

 

[Euronymous]

Yeah, and in OpenGL mode the lighting is really dark, and 3dfx mode seems to be a bit brighter and quite colourful compared to OpenGL mode. Which is the reason I use it...

I posted this in the shoutbox earlier, this is pretty much vanilla Quake II with widescreen support: http://www.markshan.com/knightmare/downloads/quake2-3.24-win32.zip.

 

[dunno lah]

 

[abija]

After seeing where this thread had wound up, I looked into my brain and asked it about Quake 2 and Unreal, both of which I had played back in the day.
[...]
"...OK, but what about the weapons?"
"... there was a pistol... and some other weapons... can't remember them."
"OK, thank you, go back to your beer."
"YAY!"

How can one not remember the shock rifle(asmd) after playing ANY of the unreal games?

 

[DraQ]

I keep overestimating you. We're done here.

If you wanted out of the discussion not going your way - I aim to please.

Spoiler

Seriously though, it's the Codex and (in case you couldn't tell) I was being facetious.

Maybe you'd prefer some more moderated forum?

So just to make sure I'm fair and relatively impartial, I'm going to be replaying Unreal 1 and Q2 "back to back" for the next few days.

The findings will be reported.

Do.

I replayed Q2 on Hard+ (the hidden "nightmare" difficulty level you have to use console command for) over the course of that thread and it was piss easy (way more than I remembered) and also bland, boring and ugly (as much as I remembered).

You have to find a decent Quake port. Unreal may have held up better on modern systems but Quake2 should only be experienced via ports.

Why? Is your beloved puke coloured (in accelerated mode) execution simulator too crappy to withstand direct comparison?

If it runs, it runs - it should then stand on its own without mods or source ports (they might be desirable but not necessary).

 

[Darth Roxor]

I replayed Q2 like 2-3 years ago, and it was exactly how I remembered it back during its release date. A generic shooter that isn't particularly offensive, but not particularly outstanding, either.

Also, Unreal is better.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Eh, Unreal was an eyecandy, nothing more, nothing less. Even the reviews back then were basically "OMG the graphics, 10/10 GOTY! PS the gunplay's kinda shit".

That said, Q2 was a huge disappointment for me, apart from the great arsenal that it had. Monsters especially. Q1 had the best menagerie ever imo, all games, all genres included. Replacing these demonic spawn with toy robots was such a bad idea!

 

[Tehdagah]

Quake 3 is better.

 

[Euronymous]

Bullshit, the thing with Quake games is that they get less good every time. Quake > Quake II > Quake III Arena >> Quake 4 >>> Enemy Territory: Quake Wars.

 

[Euronymous]

Quake II has faster gameplay in it, the fact that you could jump further and the fact that you had double jumping made it like that. Quake III Arena is simply not as fast as Quake II is, however in Quake III Arena the weapons are much more refined than in Quake II. But in general, I simply prefer Quake II in terms of gameplay. The better aspects of Quake III Arena are how it looks, the weapons and the mapping/modding community.

 

[Euronymous]

I never played with any bots, but I searched on Google and found these:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/11140421/Quake_2_Eraser_Bot___Starter
http://mrelusive.com/oldprojects/gladiator/gladiator.html

 

[abija]

Erm, Q2 doesn't have faster gameplay. You might move faster (though I remember the 1:1 map ports from q2 to q3 feeling "too short") but the higher fire rates, faster projectiles and lower reload times made q3 considerably faster gameplay wise.

 

[skacky]

I've always found Q2 to be painfully slow.

 

[Euronymous]

Erm, Q2 doesn't have faster gameplay. You might move faster (though I remember the 1:1 map ports from q2 to q3 feeling "too short") but the higher fire rates, faster projectiles and lower reload times made q3 considerably faster gameplay wise.

That's what I said, the movement feels faster in Q2 whereas the weapons are much more refined in Q3.

 

[abija]

You started with "Q2 has faster gameplay in it"

 

[Euronymous]

It does, and it's not my fault that you didn't read my previous post all the way through. I did say in my previous post that the weapons were more refined.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

How can one not remember the shock rifle(asmd) after playing ANY of the unreal games?

Apparently it's quite easy.

 

[DraQ]

Eh, Unreal was an eyecandy, nothing more, nothing less.

Well, nope.

It's glaringly obvious when you compare it with an actual 100% eyecandy 0% substance game - for example Unreal 2.

Unreal did rely on graphics a lot but it was a mean to an end.

Even the reviews back then were basically "OMG the graphics, 10/10 GOTY! PS the gunplay's kinda shit".

There is more to an FPS than graphics and gunplay.
There is atmosphere which Unreal excelled at (admittedly relying on graphics, but also stuff like music), there is AI which received universal praise at the time and could still be considered pretty fucking good, at least in terms of solo encounters, there is level design and art direction, there is music, there are other aspects of gameplay than just the sole act of bangbanging stuff (like what this stuff does when you try to bangbang it and what you can do to avoid getting bangbanged) and so on.

In about every aspect but sheer numerical damage dealt by weapons Unreal lies Q2 low with its hands tied behind its back.

That said, Q2 was a huge disappointment for me, apart from the great arsenal that it had. Monsters especially. Q1 had the best menagerie ever imo, all games, all genres included. Replacing these demonic spawn with toy robots was such a bad idea!

I can't really agree about arsenal, it was mostly just ISO standard fps guns (although I remember chaingun and hyperblaster fondly, also shotgun sounds), but while I'm not sure if I'd consider Q1 bestiary the best, it was certainly both refreshingly creepy and eerie, and quite effective in terms of gameplay - something Q2 failed miserably at - on both counts.

 

[Sul]

Uh...

 

[DalekFlay]

I remember Unreal's gunplay being fine, it was more the level design I disliked. I haven't played it since it came out though, so at this point that's like not playing it at all. I should boot it up.

 

[bert]

Uh...

HOLY SHIT GUYS THEY USED THE ORIGINAL DOOR SOUNDS IN DOOM SHIT THEY ARE TOTALLY BEING FAITFHUL TO THE HARDCORE OLD SCHOOL AUDIENCE

 

[DraQ]

I remember Unreal's gunplay being fine

The problem wasn't really gunplay itself, but weapons being somewhat weak relative to enemy HP ranges and weapon sounds being too quiet.

it was more the level design I disliked.

Why? Did you dislike anything in particular?

True, Unreal did have its share of linear levels (mostly transitions between locations, but not exclusively - although linear non-transition levels generally feature looping back on themselves and aren't much different from what was typical in even the best FPS games of old), but it also had some awesome sprawling environments with nonlinear layouts and tons of diverse sub-locations.

I haven't played it since it came out though, so at this point that's like not playing it at all. I should boot it up.

Yep.

 

[praetor]

Unreal looked nice, had some nice atmosphere and visual design, but a lot of the levels were really boring or just transitions (as the scalie mentioned) and there was a lot of them, had one enemy with decent AI that was basically a MP bot (the skaarj) and lots of boring ones, but most crucially, it had really underwhelming shooting despite the kinda interesting weapons, which is unacceptable in a First Person Shooter. UT was a noticeable improvement in the shootan department, but it still felt lacking. tried replaying it a year or two ago, but felt really bored after pew-pewing waterguns at HP sponges.