The New DOOM Thread (2016)

[pippin]

Shotgun is surprisingly viable in Doom 1, but your enemies have different variations on the same ranged or melee attacks. Doom 2requires different tactics, since enemies now have different ways to attack you, with different powers and effects. The super shotgun can kill most weaker enemies easily but the reloading time makes it less effective against enemies that attack faster than you do (like the chaingun guy).

 

[DraQ]

SG can quite reliably 1hk anything weaker than chaingunner and is still more likely than not to kill chaingunners with one shot.
It's slightly faster than SSG, and due to its spread being limited to just the horizontal plane meaning no pellets getting caught on floors and ceilings*, not to mention much smaller, it's much more practical to use beyond point blank range.

Meanwhile SSG only extends its 1hk list to pinkies and lost souls (admittedly the kind of enemies that need short range stopping power the most) and while it generally has better damage characteristics, it's much less versatile as it binds you to very close range to avoid wasting pellets and will inevitably waste ammo and whittle down enemy forces slower if there are weak enemies mixed in (thanks to slower rate of fire and already being an overkill against all zombies and imps).

*

Since enemies in DOOMs are infinitely tall the damage falloff can in optimal conditions - player peering from an elevated spot into an open space with enemies - be first power of distance with both SG and SSG, with low ceiling or even just on even ground it becomes distance squared for SSG as the infinitely tall enemy "column" is clipped by floor and ceiling collisions but remains first power of distance for SG - and that's on top of SG's much smaller spread.

 

[Average Manatee]

SSG is great for the stunlocking though. Fighting Arch-Viles without good cover is a common occurrence (custom WADs love to throw them at you like this since Arch-Viles always cause player panic), SSG lets you shove bullets straight in their face and usually come out without a scratch. Similar for other monsters like Mancubus, Barons, Cacodemons, etc. It's also generally easier to alternate between dodging and shooting than it is to shoot while dodging, SSG does this for you.

In terms of pure stats, SG only fires about 50% faster while SSG has around 200% more damage per shot, so when you're just fighting HP-bloated enemies that you can run rings around the higher DPS is great. SSG needs half of its pellets to miss for its DPS (and ammo efficiency) to drop below that of the SG.

Ammo efficiency usually isn't a concern, its rare to face single zombies/imps and usually shotguns have plenty of ammo lying around.

 

[DraQ]

SSG is great for the stunlocking though. Fighting Arch-Viles without good cover is a common occurrence (custom WADs love to throw them at you like this since Arch-Viles always cause player panic), SSG lets you shove bullets straight in their face and usually come out without a scratch. Similar for other monsters like Mancubus, Barons, Cacodemons, etc. It's also generally easier to alternate between dodging and shooting than it is to shoot while dodging, SSG does this for you.

In terms of pure stats, SG only fires about 50% faster while SSG has around 200% more damage per shot, so when you're just fighting HP-bloated enemies that you can run rings around the higher DPS is great.

True, assuming that you're comfortable (or forced) to run right in front of their face.

Arch-Viles are indeed a bit of "OH SHIT!" enemies you simply try to slug with as much of whatever you have as fast as possible if there is no cover, so if SSG is your best option, you use SSG, especially given that Arch-Viles' attacks aren't dodgeable, you can at best break the line of sight, so closing in doesn't confer any additional danger.

Cacos are best dealt with using CG,
CS if alone:

SSG needs half of its pellets to miss for its DPS (and ammo efficiency) to drop below that of the SG.

Which isn't particularly rare occurence given the spread. It will also drop below SG efficiency if you're bogged down by zombies and imps - SG will eat them about 50% faster without even considering time wasted on repositioning to frame targets in optimal way and close in as needed or wasted pellets if you don't.

 

[Average Manatee]

Cacos are best dealt with using CG

Best, but CG runs out of ammo mad fast. 4 Cacodemons and you're running low on ammo.

Which isn't particularly rare occurence given the spread. It will also drop below SG efficiency if you're bogged down by zombies and imps - SG will eat them about 50% faster without even considering time wasted on repositioning to frame targets in optimal way and close in as needed or wasted pellets if you don't.

How often do you only see single zombies/imps though? Almost never past the early levels? And if the map is that easy then worrying about killing efficiency is usually fairly irrelevant to your survival rate. If you've got multiple zombies/imps standing anywhere near each other then a SSG will probable be at least as effective.

 

[DraQ]

Cacos are best dealt with using CG

Best, but CG runs out of ammo mad fast. 4 Cacodemons and you're running low on ammo.

If I was swarmed by cacos I'd consider using BFG.
RL If they were very tightly clustered.

How often do you only see single zombies/imps though? Almost never past the early levels? And if the map is that easy then worrying about killing efficiency is usually fairly irrelevant to your survival rate. If you've got multiple zombies/imps standing anywhere near each other then a SSG will probable be at least as effective.

Not single. Multiple zombies (in general - meaning all zombified humans) are where killing efficiency matters a lot because hitscan attacks are difficult to avoid. SSG will kill an entire group nicely as long as you take time running up to it, nicely framing them with expected pattern then blowing them away. SG will reliably take out multiple zombies (the weakest kind) and single other mutated humans or imps at almost any distance by just pointing and clicking. SG will simply let you drop more pesky hitscanners per unit of time.

Only multiple chaingunners are a bit of an exception because those semi-rare cases when they don't drop in a single hit still pile up quickly into worrying amounts of lost health.

Of course, large numbers of weak enemies are perfect chaingun fodder, but my point here is that SG is just the single most versatile weapon in DOOMs, while SSG is highly specialized niche weapon for hitting stuff like a truck at nearly melee ranges.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Cacodemon is surprisingly resistant to rockets - it's usually a waste of ammo using the rocket launcher on them. CG is of course best but shottie works well woo if you have the space to move and dodge.

 

[Durandal]

I've always wondered what the purpose was of the Plasma Gun. It's a gun that fires projectiles instead of being hitscan like the chaingun and has a different ammo pool, but in nearly every other aspect its role in the game is identical to the Chaingun aside from the fact that it is not as viable on longer ranges as th Chaingun due to its projectile-based nature. Do certain enemies have a lower resistance to plasma or something?

 

[Infinitron]

I've always wondered what the purpose was of the Plasma Gun. It's a gun that fires projectiles instead of being hitscan like the chaingun and has a different ammo pool, but in nearly every other aspect its role in the game is identical to the Chaingun aside from the fact that it is not as viable on longer ranges as th Chaingun due to its projectile-based nature. Do certain enemies have a lower resistance to plasma or something?

Higher DPS, it's as simple as that.

 

[Sjukob]

Yeah , but don't you want to save ammo for BFG ?

 

[Cadmus]

are there even resistances in Doom? I always thought everyone just got some HP and the guns have the damage roll + accuracy and that's how you choose the right weapon

 

[DraQ]

are there even resistances in Doom? I always thought everyone just got some HP and the guns have the damage roll + accuracy and that's how you choose the right weapon

Only resistance to pain IIRC.

 

[Tacgnol]

are there even resistances in Doom? I always thought everyone just got some HP and the guns have the damage roll + accuracy and that's how you choose the right weapon

Only resistance to pain IIRC.

From what I remember of my WAD hacking days weapon damage is purely an attribute on the weapon. There are no damage types.

As DraQ says I think there was a pain/stagger resistance attribute on monsters.

 

[sexbad?]

Yes, monsters have certain chances of being stopped from moving or attacking when shot. The chance varies from monster type to monster type.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Doesn't DoomRL have specific damage types?

 

[Average Manatee]

I've always wondered what the purpose was of the Plasma Gun. It's a gun that fires projectiles instead of being hitscan like the chaingun and has a different ammo pool, but in nearly every other aspect its role in the game is identical to the Chaingun aside from the fact that it is not as viable on longer ranges as th Chaingun due to its projectile-based nature. Do certain enemies have a lower resistance to plasma or something?

It also disrupts your view in a horrible way.

For the Plasma Gun to be useful you generally need a map maker who has the restraint to not hand out the BFG like candy. It has a higher DPS than everything else but the rocket launcher and even beats the rocket launcher against the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind (due to them being immune to the blast damage). But the BFG is both way more powerful and way more ammo efficient in almost all instances.

 

[Gragt]

Plus you can rush the Spider Mastermind and Cyberdemon with the BFG, killing them in a few seconds if you survive.

The Plasma Gun is also good on tight maps where it’s difficult to target many enemies with the BFG due to wall placements.

The Chaingun is useful against Cacodemons and Pain Elementals (and anything else with a high pain chance) but takes too long to kill them and burns through ammo fast. The Super Shotgun can deal with them faster with minimal need to dodge and while spending only four or six shells. Getting rid of them faster means you can switch your attention to other threats.

 

[Gragt]

The chaingun is pretty cool for sniping soft targets, like the many Heavy Weapon Dudes you are sure to find, unless the map author puts them just out of reach of the auto-aim.

 

[dunno lah]

Chaingun made my life easy as hell in Romero's E1M8b.

It's all about designing the levels with "BALANCE".

 

[DraQ]

Plasma Gun stunlocks many foes easily. Also can be useful against certain mobs.

Personally without counting the pistol, I think the chaingun is the worst Doom weapon - takes one million years to kill something. But then again videogame miniguns are notably crap.

Videogame miniguns are stupidly slow, but chaingun really shines against dispersed swarms of weak enemies and lone enemies with high pain chance.
You can use it to "snipe" as well, but that's mildly cheesy.

One of the incredibly few things Q2 did well was how it refined chaingun and plasmagun (->hyperblaster) mechanical formulae.

Of course while lack of any sort of enemy armor mechanics in DOOM was forgiveable, in Q2 where you fought cybernetic tincans rather than predominately fleshy demons it was just stupid.

Miniguns should be for neatly trimming vast lawns of soft targets or hitting really fast ones, not for mincing tanks.

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

 

[Infinitron]

https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/doom-hack-modules-and-warpath/2016/02/22/80

DOOM – Hack Modules and Warpath
Just like the robust single-player campaign, DOOM’s multiplayer is all about pushing forward in a furiously fast firefight: no time to stop, no cowering behind cover, no sniping from the corners – this is all-out adrenaline-fueled arena-style mayhem. Built in partnership with studio Certain Affinity, multiplayer has already been tested by players at Quakecon and in a series of closed alphas. However, we recently had our first opportunity to try out a newly revealed mode: Warpath. This is DOOM’s take on “king of the hill” – the difference being that the capture-point moves in a circle around the map (along a clearly marked path). Meanwhile, a game-changing demon rune moves in lockstep on the opposite side of the path. Players have to decide where they want to be: rushing toward the power-up to turn into a Marine-destroying Demon; clustered around the capture point to defend or steal control; or simply roaming around looking to pick off any errant foes. The constant motion adds a unique twist to the gameplay, spurring players to move just as quickly as they do in single-player. It’s frenetic, fast and a heckuva lot of fun.

Also newly introduced in our recent session: Hack Modules. These are single-use disposable items earned through the game’s progression system. The more you play, the more Hack Modules you’ll get. (They are not tied to microtransactions.) Our current favorite among the handful we were shown: Supply Timer, which displays respawn timers on pickups. “So when you’re running through the world, you might see that an armor piece is coming back in 10 seconds and you could decide to hang back and take it,” Stratton explains. Other Hack Modules include Retribution (location and health of the player who last killed you); Scout (location of all enemies for a few seconds after you spawn in); Vital Signs (health bars over enemies’ heads); and Power Seeker (location of nearby power-ups). While these are all on timers, your active Hack Module will pause when you die, allowing you to use the remaining time on your module, or to pick another module before you respawn (and thus reserve the remaining time in your prior module for later use).

Stratton likens Hack Modules to the proverbial “court vision” that the very best athletes seem to innately have. “Think of Hack Modules as an emphasized awareness of your surroundings that may, if you utilize it well, make you more effective,” Stratton says. “Good players ‘see’ these things inherently. But none of these affect the game’s balance by changing how powerful your gun is or anything like that.”

 

[Caim]

KotH and any point defend game type is pretty much the bane of fast action gameplay.

 

[pakoito]

Unlockables

 

[Unkillable Cat]

*reads Bethesda press announcement*

How many people at marketing had to agonize and suffer to make that text?

I get the same stomach-churning feeling of "bullshit!" from reading that as when I read menus at fancy restaurants where every food item is described with 'fresh' or 'crispy' and even the side-dishes have paragraphs devoted to their backgrounds and points of origin. (Who cares if your onions are imported from the northern regions of Italy?)

This is another example of devs claiming to be inventing the wheel, when they're actually locked in the wheeltracks of their predecessors...and in this case, superiors.

 

[nil]

Other Hack Modules include Retribution (location and health of the player who last killed you); Scout (location of all enemies for a few seconds after you spawn in); Vital Signs (health bars over enemies’ heads)

Good players ‘see’ these things inherently.