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The Outer Worlds 2

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
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Messages
36,566
Cross-posting from the Avellone thread

Obsidian also has Leonard Boyarsky and Tim Cain on board, even though both are on Outer Worlds (2), and Leonard and Tim are the original creators of Fallout.

I thought it was strange how Boyarsky and Cain were still on but not directing, but realized this is likely

Avellone said:
Brandon Adler did weigh in on production decisions, but he wasn't always listened to. For example, he told me that in all future titles, Josh should not do any companion design or writing for a long list of reasons (which made sense - the biggest point was the time it consumed vs. overseeing the project as Project Director). That said, Brandon doesn't run Obsidian, and while his instincts may be correct (I agreed when he told me his opinion), he doesn't have the authority to make that happen vs. the "owners".

finally being applied. It's possible Boyarsky was likely unsatisfied with the quality of writing in TOW (who wouldn't be :P) so he decided to become more hands-on as a full-time creative lead rather than spreading himself too thin as both creative lead and director. Cain also comes across as the kind of guy who would rather just program the things he wants to do instead of bearing the burden of leadership.
 

gerey

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
3,472
Women in games were a mistake.
It's possible Boyarsky was likely unsatisfied with the quality of writing in TOW (who wouldn't be :P) so he decided to become more hands-on as a full-time creative lead rather than spreading himself too thin as both creative lead and director. Cain also comes across as the kind of guy who would rather just program the things he wants to do instead of bearing the burden of leadership.
Unless the writing team over at Obsidian saw some radical changes (and by that I mean less women and more men) then there's next to no hope the sequel will be any better than the first game.
 

BlackheartXIII

Educated
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
95
I see that the outer world 2 narrative team newest recruits is consist of "professional creatives" which can be divide in to two main groups: the first one are the YA writers: a group that mostly consist of older millennials; obviously they are from the YA fiction field which is in a constant decline since the mid 10's' (probably explain their migration to gamedev and the newer trends that we are witnessing in crpgs writing in the last decade) now it is in a extremely dire state. (the twitter thread below presenting the dire state in publishing in an accurate way)


The second group are the freelancers contact creators, mostly consist of younger millennials; it's characterized with a vague focus on a single creative profession; it reflected in their resume which contained various creative gigs such as podcasts, short stories, screenwriting and etc. it seems they are trying to find a gig that stick (which also indicate the qualities of their other gigs).

i think that our awareness of that phenomenon is important due to its profound effects on the quality of crpgs writing.
 

Flou

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
869
Location
Hellsinki
Cross-posting from the Avellone thread

Obsidian also has Leonard Boyarsky and Tim Cain on board, even though both are on Outer Worlds (2), and Leonard and Tim are the original creators of Fallout.

I thought it was strange how Boyarsky and Cain were still on but not directing, but realized this is likely

Chris previously claimed Cain had retired which seemed odd.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
I see that the outer world 2 narrative team newest recruits is consist of "professional creatives" which can be divide in to two main groups: the first one are the YA writers: a group that mostly consist of older millennials; obviously they are from the YA fiction field which is in a constant decline since the mid 10's' (probably explain their migration to gamedev and the newer trends that we are witnessing in crpgs writing in the last decade) now it is in a extremely dire state. (the twitter thread below presenting the dire state in publishing in an accurate way)


The second group are the freelancers contact creators, mostly consist of younger millennials; it's characterized with a vague focus on a single creative profession; it reflected in their resume which contained various creative gigs such as podcasts, short stories, screenwriting and etc. it seems they are trying to find a gig that stick (which also indicate the qualities of their other gigs).

i think that our awareness of that phenomenon is important due to its profound effects on the quality of crpgs writing.

Being a "young adult fiction writer' is not a fucking career, it is a hobby.
I should feel bad for these people to some degree because they were lied to their entire life and convinced to go $100k into debt based on a lie. But I don't, because it's funny.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,487
Let’s be honest and admit the supply of writers far exceeds demand. This is true in book publishing and in media. It devalues writing.

michael-jordan-lol.gif
 

BlackheartXIII

Educated
Joined
Mar 18, 2022
Messages
95
Being a "young adult fiction writer' is not a fucking career, it is a hobby.
I should feel bad for these people to some degree because they were lied to their entire life and convinced to go $100k into debt based on a lie. But I don't, because it's funny.

most of YA writers are coming from affluent backgrounds so they can afford the education and the livelihood in major cultural centers like new york (Brooklyn is a great example). those who comes form a middle class background are usually married to a white collar professional that can support their writing career.
 
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S.torch

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
1,094
It's not bad than old RPG designers are leaving. Most of them became disloyal or became wimps. Effectively throwing every one of their fans and what they stood for under the bus.

There's no point on keep following people like that. The better they can do is retire so they stop desecrating their own legacy. It also will create a space for people who actually care about the ideals and things they abandoned and make them theirs.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,470
Being a "young adult fiction writer' is not a fucking career, it is a hobby.
I should feel bad for these people to some degree because they were lied to their entire life and convinced to go $100k into debt based on a lie. But I don't, because it's funny.

It's a hobby when you're mediocre and can't get hired. It stops being a hobby when you git gud get paid. That's the definition of a profession.

Nobody was lied to. I was told all throughout university that a writing degree is toilet paper. If you as a writer didn't either expect a lifetime of hardship and struggle (or 40 years of some corporate desk jockey job), then you were simply in denial.

I'm tired of people complaining about how hard their lives are when they write Gravity Falls fanfiction and sleep all day.
 
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Kem0sabe

Arcane
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
13,182
Location
Azores Islands
Outer worlds was one of the most basic low effort RPGs to come out of an established developer. Everything from the graphics, to the world design, to the combat and writing was at its best mediocre, but often it was just awful.

Obsidian needs to put 20x their effort into the sequel just to come close to their previous release, PoE2, that despite being just "ok", it showed a lot of dedication put into by its development team.

Sadly, Microsoft is mismanaging their first party studios into the ground, and obsidian with no one to pressure them, and with it's teams now comfortable with a corporate salary, will likely just release another piece of crap.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
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Messages
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santino27

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
2,769
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Being a "young adult fiction writer' is not a fucking career, it is a hobby.
I should feel bad for these people to some degree because they were lied to their entire life and convinced to go $100k into debt based on a lie. But I don't, because it's funny.

It's a hobby when you're mediocre and can't get hired. It stops being a hobby when you git gud get paid. That's the definition of a profession.

Nobody was lied to. I was told all throughout university that a writing degree is toilet paper. If you as a writer didn't either expect a lifetime of hardship and struggle (or 40 years of some corporate desk jockey job), then you were simply in denial.

I'm tired of people complaining about how hard their lives are when they write Gravity Falls fanfiction and sleep all day.
Yep. And it's easier than ever to make money writing (books) these days, provided you don't try to go the traditional publishing route where you're subjected to primadonna agents and risk-averse publishers.
 

Flou

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
869
Location
Hellsinki
He has in fact moved to Washington with his husband. Permanent remote work.

That seemed more plausible move even back then, but some people were sure that Cain had retired because Chris said so. Now give Cain and Boyarsky their shot at a new Fallout game (or Arcanum)
 

Marat

Arcane
Wumao
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
2,672
The trailers for this one and the first one were pretty good. Shame it's the best thing to come out of the franchise.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
In Feb 2022 (4 months ago) Evan Hill joined Obsidian as a senior area designer for TOW2. he also the Executive producer/writer/sole employee (according to LinkedIn) of Self Hunter Studio.
Executive Producer / Writer
Self Hunter Studio
Jul 2019 - Present-2 years 11 months

Los Angeles, California, United States

Working with established writers and producers to develop IP for adaptation to film/tv/games
also worked on Torment: Tides of Numenera:
Level Designer / Technical Designer
inXile Entertainment
May 2015 - Jan 2017 1 year 9 months

Newport Beach

I focus on the creation and implementation of Torment: Tides of Numenera's "crisis sequences"
and on The Last of Us Part II:
Level Designer
Naughty Dog
Feb 2018 - May 20202 years 4 months

+ Principal level design, layout, and additional scripting for 4 sections of The Last of Us Part II
+ Narrative design, systems/feature design, and gameplay prototyping
+ Producer for owned levels. Scheduling, task/bug management, meeting coordination.
(Contracted through Yoh Services)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/evan-hill-a7880949
game industry sure is full of people failing upwards
 

gurugeorge

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
7,823
Location
London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
In Feb 2022 (4 months ago) Evan Hill joined Obsidian as a senior area designer for TOW2. he also the Executive producer/writer/sole employee (according to LinkedIn) of Self Hunter Studio.
Executive Producer / Writer
Self Hunter Studio
Jul 2019 - Present-2 years 11 months

Los Angeles, California, United States

Working with established writers and producers to develop IP for adaptation to film/tv/games
also worked on Torment: Tides of Numenera:
Level Designer / Technical Designer
inXile Entertainment
May 2015 - Jan 2017 1 year 9 months

Newport Beach

I focus on the creation and implementation of Torment: Tides of Numenera's "crisis sequences"
and on The Last of Us Part II:
Level Designer
Naughty Dog
Feb 2018 - May 20202 years 4 months

+ Principal level design, layout, and additional scripting for 4 sections of The Last of Us Part II
+ Narrative design, systems/feature design, and gameplay prototyping
+ Producer for owned levels. Scheduling, task/bug management, meeting coordination.
(Contracted through Yoh Services)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/evan-hill-a7880949

Hrm, well that's not exactly filling me with confidence :)
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
Obsidian really let the world down but it was always dwindling returns with them to begin with.
 

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