The Outer Worlds Pre-Release Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Tigranes]

Unfortunately, that Blizzard advancement quote is true of a number of companies, and it's also true of salaries (it's an unfortunate fact that, in some companies, if an employee leaves for a higher-paying similar position at another company, then return to the same company, they'll often be hired back on at a payscale that would never be what they got had they remained at the company - this happened at Obsidian). This is also the easiest way to get promoted - again, you can get a more senior role easier by leaving a company and coming back, which is bizarre, but true.

From what I've heard from my friends that culture is quite common even in the Finnish gaming/IT industry, but then again some of those companies here are US based. After certain amount of years and shipped titles, you should switch to a different company to get a bigger paycheck.

I even heard horror stories about universities, where administrators would only give you a pay raise if you show them a job offer from a different university with higher pay on it (in the US, naturally. Euro unis mostly have fixed payscales and thank god for that).

Not quite. US professors will typically get cost of living increases + landmark pay rises upon being tenured. But for any meaningful negotiation over pay, you need a competing offer, otherwise you will just be on that very mild incline.

It's not necessarily better to have fixed payscale for them, either; e.g. UK positions will typically advertise a set pay range from the start, and it is far, far lower than what you could get in a good US position even without competing offers.

Anyway, switching companies to get raises and more responsibilities is a bit silly but it's a very normal part of the economy these days.

 

[V_K]

It's not necessarily better to have fixed payscale for them, either; e.g. UK positions will typically advertise a set pay range from the start, and it is far, far lower than what you could get in a good US position even without competing offers.

Well, it's more about how much money universities in different countries have than about types of payscales. For example, both Germany and Denmark have fixed scales, yet my Danish PhD salary is comparable to a full professor salary in Germany. Tenured faculty salaries here are comparable to US from what I gather.
There's also argument to be made that a publicly funded non-profit institution shouldn't have negotiable salaries in the first place - it's not a business and shouldn't be run like one.

 

[Tigranes]

Oh, certainly. Scandinavian institutions are generally in a very good spot at the moment: good working conditions, good pay, and far, far, far less competitive than equivalent US positions (though this doesn't necessarily correlate with quality).

At any rate, it's a whole different ball game. If you're a programmer at Obsidian, then there are a million other programming jobs that you can use as leverage or really move to. Usually that's not the case for professors.

 

[Flou]

More job openings for Indiana?

http://www.obsidian.net/jobs/open-positions/design/1073-ux-designer

http://www.obsidian.net/jobs/open-positions/art/1052-senior-environment-artist

 

[Chris Avellone]

Yeah! And while he's still at Obsidian he can get Leon and Tim to share their success story about running a video game development business. It will be great!

Well, in an added bit of hilarity (which I learned from an upper management stupid admission while they were complaining about their own decision putting them out - sorry, dummies, maybe you should manage?) Josh is now the Exec. Producer (what) on Tim and Leonard's project, replacing Rich Taylor (nooooo, he was good whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy).

But (and here's the 2nd kicker), Josh started his EP'ing off by F'ing off a month off to go do talks elsewhere, so... why does this position exist again? Does the Lead Producer do nothing?

Tim... Leonard... leave already. Reitre. Both. They don't deserve you.

Note I don't blame Josh so much for having a vacation, as it was likely his vacation he had in place once Pillars 2 had shipped (and I don't think Rich's resignation was planned for at all)... BUT, if you are Exec. Producer on a game that may be on its final stages, going on extended vanishing vacation = nope.

(Apparently, the amount of attention Josh gave to the project on his first week was pretty dismal, though, so it may for the best. It even got to the point upper management got complaints - as was relayed to me, the Leads called Josh out on his behavior, which I would have loved to have seen - esp. if Leonard was involved in the raking-across-the-coals.)

I do blame whoever thought it was fucking brilliant to make Josh an Executive Producer when a Design Director should already have enough to do... but whatever, I can guess why: a Design Director you can't charge Take-Two for, but an Executive Producer you can charge Take-Two for to offset your new house costs.

God, what garbage. I hope Take-Two knows Josh is gone for a month when you send them the "budgets", Feargus.

 

[TT1]

Is this real life?

 

[Haba]

a Design Director you can't charge Take-Two for, but an Executive Producer you can charge Take-Two for to offset your new house costs.

LOL, glad to see there are some similarities to "normal" IT.

I've actually invited partner account managers to meetings and assigned them tasks (unit testing, for example) since account manager hours wouldn't get billed from us.

Sadly an average account manager is less effective than an Indian outsourced resource.

 

[Cael]

Is this real life?

Yes. I have stories about upper management incompetence and nepotism like you won't believe, including one where a person was demoted because an upper manager's favourite returned to the company after a few years and wanted her old job back. And yes, the upper manager was male.

 

[Latelistener]

Well, in an added bit of hilarity (which I learned from an upper management stupid admission while they were complaining about their own decision putting them out - sorry, dummies, maybe you should manage?) Josh is now the Exec. Producer (what) on Tim and Leonard's project, replacing Rich Taylor (nooooo, he was good whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy).

As far as we know he left for Blizzard on his own. Are there anyone else who could have replaced him?

Tim... Leonard... leave already. Reitre. Both. They don't deserve you.

If they'll start another company, will you join them?

 

[Jarpie]

Looks like Obsidian haven't learned from the past dealings to not fuck around with the publisher.

 

[Chris Avellone]

Is this real life?

:: ...or is this just fantasy? ::

I wish for the latter.

But no.

 

[Chris Avellone]

If they'll start another company, will you join them?

Hell yes.

And IHaveHugeNick when he leaves the upper echelons, as he always wished.

 

[TT1]

Is this real life?

:: ...or is this just fantasy? ::

I wish for the latter.

But no.

I work now as a project manager, but IT, working inside an investiment bank. Its really impressive how IT and the game industry have the same procedures and bullshit management.

Scrum, waterfall, scrumfall... Nothing can prevent bad management and toxic behaviour if the staff dont do anything to prevent it. Its... Sad.

 

[Chris Avellone]

As far as we know he left for Blizzard on his own. Are there anyone else who could have replaced him?

Did an Exec Producer... who is somehow different from a Lead Producer, unless incompetent, in which case, you should fire the Lead Producer... need to be replaced?

I'd say no. It's a bullshit position designed to generate income from a publisher, I see no value in it. But okay, Obsidian, good one. Applause.

I have heard of new Exec Producer positions at Obsidian, and it simply reinforces the harm the position causes/will cause. I mean - would you really want Chris Parker as Exec. Producer on your project? I say nay, and I say it with confidence.

 

[Latelistener]

If they'll start another company, will you join them?

Hell yes.

And IHaveHugeNick when he leaves the upper echelons, as he always wished.

And if they'll also take Josh with them?

Spoiler

 

[Cael]

Is this real life?

:: ...or is this just fantasy? ::

I wish for the latter.

But no.

I work now as a project manager, but IT, working inside an investiment bank. Its really impressive how IT and the game industry have the same procedures and bullshit management.

Scrum, waterfall, scrumfall... Nothing can prevent bad management and toxic behaviour if the staff dont do anything to prevent it. Its... Sad.

Trust me. Project management in another field is no different, and there is little the staff can do when it is upper management that is a problem that even the clients are openly commiserating the staff caught in the crossfire and endeavouring to assure them that they (the staff) are not the problem.

 

[Latelistener]

As far as we know he left for Blizzard on his own. Are there anyone else who could have replaced him?

Did an Exec Producer... who is somehow different from a Lead Producer, unless incompetent, in which case, you should fire the Lead Producer... need to be replaced?

I'd say no. It's a bullshit position designed to generate income from a publisher, I see no value in it. But okay, Obsidian, good one. Applause.

I have heard of new Exec Producer positions at Obsidian, and it simply reinforces the harm the position causes/will cause. I mean - would you really want Chris Parker as Exec. Producer on your project? I say nay, and I say it with confidence.

If Josh's position was created solely for this purpose, what will happen now? Tim Cain will have to fill both roles as a Project Director and also a Lead Producer?

 

[AwesomeButton]

a Design Director you can't charge Take-Two for, but an Executive Producer you can charge Take-Two for to offset your new house costs.

LOL, glad to see there are some similarities to "normal" IT.

I've actually invited partner account managers to meetings and assigned them tasks (unit testing, for example) since account manager hours wouldn't get billed from us.

Sadly an average account manager is less effective than an Indian outsourced resource.

Agreed. This sounds extremely familiar

 

[Fairfax]

BUT, if you are Exec. Producer on a game that may be on its final stages, going on extended vanishing vacation = nope.

I haven't followed this project closely, but I think the fact it's near its final stages is new info. I guess they're going for a short gap between announcement and launch.

Looks like Obsidian haven't learned from the past dealings to not fuck around with the publisher.

Private Division's directors are relatively new to game publishing. Feargus must be banking on them not knowing old tricks like that. It seems it's worked so far, but he's playing with fire. Take-Two is massive, and Zelnick doesn't fuck around.

 

[Infinitron]

Posting about Obsidian in the Project Indiana thread, posting about Project Indiana in the Obsidian thread

Tim... Leonard... leave already. Reitre. Both. They don't deserve you.

You sounded a lot more optimistic last month, what happened? https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-leonard-boyarsky.119594/page-12#post-5813915
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-leonard-boyarsky.119594/page-13#post-5815113

 

[Latelistener]

Private Division's directors are relatively new to game publishing. Feargus must be banking on them not knowing old tricks like that. It seems it's worked so far, but he's playing with fire. Take-Two is massive, and Zelnick doesn't fuck around.

I don't think Take-Two will tackle with MS though, if the deal will go through. Speaking of sizes, MS will eat Zelnick alive along with Take-Two and Private Division.

 

[Fairfax]

Private Division's directors are relatively new to game publishing. Feargus must be banking on them not knowing old tricks like that. It seems it's worked so far, but he's playing with fire. Take-Two is massive, and Zelnick doesn't fuck around.

I don't think Take-Two will tackle with MS though, if the deal will go through. Speaking of sizes, MS will eat Zelnick alive along with Take-Two and Private Division.

I agree, and I doubt the amount could be enough for MS and Take-Two to quarrel in the first place. Take-Two is aware of some cost padding already, but it seems it was still peanuts to them. If it grows to a less trivial amount and Take-Two confronts MS-owned Obsidian, MS would just pay them and move on.

 

[Flou]

Well, in an added bit of hilarity (which I learned from an upper management stupid admission while they were complaining about their own decision putting them out - sorry, dummies, maybe you should manage?) Josh is now the Exec. Producer (what) on Tim and Leonard's project, replacing Rich Taylor (nooooo, he was good whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy).

Why Sawyer instead of Brennecke who did the executive producing on Pillars and Deadfire? Josh has deserved his vacation and should have been kept out of the project. Too bad that Richard Taylor left, he managed to handle both Armored Warfare and DS3 pretty well.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Is this real life?

:: ...or is this just fantasy? ::

Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality.

Open your eyes,
Look up to the skies and see.

I’m just a poor boy,
I need no sympathy.

‘Cause I’m easy come, easy go...
Little high, little low,
Anyway the wind blows,
Doesn’t really matter to me... TO ME!!

 

[Safav Hamon]

Sawyer looked like shit this past year. He needed a vacation.