The Outer Worlds Pre-Release Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

Is there any way to defend this game anymore?

Sure.

1) Convince yourself that you don't care that much about Epic Games Store exclusivity.

2) Convince yourself that the twenty minute townkilling stream at PAX East was an abberation and that the Game Informer videos are more representative of how the final game will look and play.

There you go, hype restored.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

The only possible argument you could make in favor of "it's hard to implement a modding system" is that if you use a third party engine and third party tools, you're not allowed to just release the tools you use to the community, but that's just a legal hurdle, not a technical one.

So enabling modding is easy if you... build your own engine and tools from scratch (and then give them away for free)? Call me crazy, but that sounds like a lot of work.

Seeing as they’re using Unreal, they’d presumably have to create a bunch of technical workarounds to facilitate modding without violating Epic’s IP. Also, doesn’t Obsidian license out its dialogue editor to other developers? Can’t imagine the corporate overlords at Microsoft, of all companies, letting them go open source with this stuff (or anything for that matter).

Tim & Leonard have a limited budget and historically their reach tends to exceed their grasp. I really can’t fault them for trying to be disciplined about how they allocate resources. Before you can have a robust modding community, you need people to actually buy and enjoy the damned game, which is what they should be spending their money on.

 

[Quillon]

No Modding because of Epic Game Store

Otherwise they'd provide players with great modding tools, right?

I don't understand what's wrong with people who obviously want to "steal" audience from Bethesda and outright refuses to see that mods can boost profit and create loyal fanbase (sometimes too much loyal, fucking Skyrim fanatics). If they want to make a long run series, mods should be if not priority, but at least one of their concerns.

Time and budget, yo :D

They answered that "it's hard to implement modding system so no mods" or something like that.

I will never understand that retarded argument.

All you have to do to "implement" a "modding system" is to have an open enough file structure that people can edit things. Paradox games and Total War games have no mod tools but there are active modding communities because the file structure is sufficiently open that you can change statistics and some mechanics in the game by editing text files, add new units, change the properties of playable nations, etc. Yeah they're strategy games but in an RPG this could at least allow you to modify equipment stats, add new equipment items, etc. It's not much, but it's something, and there's literally no effort involved on the side of the developer. You don't even have to publish a modding tutorial for your community, they'll figure it all out by themselves.

Also, don't they have tools with which they're building the game? Bethesda just released the same editor they used to build Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim levels to the community so they can build levels too. Simple.
Thief modding started when the community asked the devs "yo, wanna give us the editor for the game so we can make our own levels?" and the devs said "k" and they didn't even give them a big tutorial. The community figured out the intricacies of the editor on their own, and by now can even do things the original devs would never have thought possible.

The only possible argument you could make in favor of "it's hard to implement a modding system" is that if you use a third party engine and third party tools, you're not allowed to just release the tools you use to the community, but that's just a legal hurdle, not a technical one.

Allowing mods isn't hard. You don't actually have to actively do anything as a developer to enable modding.

They never said anything against your argument, when people ask them if there'll be mod support, they think about editors and shit, "modding tools" that devs provide & Obs said they won't be able to do that yet. Otherwise why would they actively prevent modding since they did exactly what you wrote with Deadfire.

 

[Duraframe300]

Is there any way to defend this game anymore?

Sure.

1) Convince yourself that you don't care that much about Epic Games Store exclusivity.

2) Convince yourself that the twenty minute townkilling stream at PAX East was an abberation and that the Game Informer videos are more representative of how the final game will look and play.

There you go, hype restored.

1) I care about Epic Store exclusivity. Which is why I'm boycotting the Epic Store. Still going to buy the game though on Windows Store and after getting over the decision (still not fully, just because of proffessional pride) still excited.

2) Of all the outrage, theres not actually a lot of difference between what was said in the Game Informer Interviews than compared to the Video. With a bit of new information. From Tim Cain's pizza, over the 20% New Vegas Staff, to the possibility of killing everyone, to the choice of humor/Firefly vibe, to the Time Period/Art Deco Artstyle (which wasn't really showcased in the gameinformer footage because it was mostly outdoor areas), to Science Weapons, to the reaffirmance of Megan Starks saying she got a lot of notes/clear direction from Leonard / had to watch Brazil and so on. Everything they showed was a focus in the gameinformer interviews.

So, how going back to the gameinfromer interviews should suddenly convince you now in comparison I have no idea.

In fact the biggest new information I got out of it relates to dialog! :D

- Context dependant (information/disguises/trade) dialog choices (I didn't think they had a full disguise system)
- Personal impression, but from Leonards comments, dialouge trees are more choice dependant to navigate/can close off depending on your choices.

 

[Infinitron]

The Game Informer gameplay video told a complete story, showing a broad variety of environment types, situations, mechanics, etc. Much of it took place in a colorful outdoor area that played to the game's technical strengths (ie, outside of a city so okay for it to be sparsely inhabited).

PAX East stream - single environment, aborted sidequest with no narrative closure, retarded lulz combat.

It was a night and day difference in how to showcase a game. Whoever put together the first gameplay video knew what they were doing. I wonder if the publisher was involved.

 

[hajro]

1 year from release game will be patched up and ready to play, thank you for beta testing egs cucks

 

[ArchAngel]

Is there any way to defend this game anymore?

Sure.

1) Convince yourself that you don't care that much about Epic Games Store exclusivity.

2) Convince yourself that the twenty minute townkilling stream at PAX East was an abberation and that the Game Informer videos are more representative of how the final game will look and play.

There you go, hype restored.

Did it work for you?

 

[Flou]

Obsidian's salaries aren't competitive, so the only people applying must really want to make bigger budget RPGs (and these people typically aren't grognards) or are desperate enough to work in the game industry and no one else wanted to hire them.

With Microsoft paying the bills, I'm sure their salaries will be competitive after a while.

 

[JarlFrank]

The only possible argument you could make in favor of "it's hard to implement a modding system" is that if you use a third party engine and third party tools, you're not allowed to just release the tools you use to the community, but that's just a legal hurdle, not a technical one.

So enabling modding is easy if you... build your own engine and tools from scratch (and then give them away for free)? Call me crazy, but that sounds like a lot of work.

Seeing as they’re using Unreal, they’d presumably have to create a bunch of technical workarounds to facilitate modding without violating Epic’s IP. Also, doesn’t Obsidian license out its dialogue editor to other developers? Can’t imagine the corporate overlords at Microsoft, of all companies, letting them go open source with this stuff (or anything for that matter).

Tim & Leonard have a limited budget and historically their reach tends to exceed their grasp. I really can’t fault them for trying to be disciplined about how they allocate resources. Before you can have a robust modding community, you need people to actually buy and enjoy the damned game, which is what they should be spending their money on.

As I said in the post you quoted above:

"but that's just a legal hurdle, not a technical one."

Creating "modding tools" is usually nothing more than releasing the tools you used for the creation of your game to the community - that is, including them in the game that is either bought on DVD or downloaded from the storefront you bought it at, and the tools can only be used with that particular game (you can't use Morrowind's mod tools on Oblivion or vice versa, for example, despite them essentially using the same engine). So you're not really "going open source" with that stuff. Instead, you just let the people who buy your game also have access to the tools used to build the game's content, so they can create content of their own. Nothing "open source" about that.

There have been some Russian-made mods for Rome Total War that use a modified .exe, because they made some changes that are beyond what normal modding can do.
These mods aren't allowed to be uploaded to TWCenter, the most major Total War modding community, because the modified .exe includes a crack and you can essentially use these mods as standalone games without requiring a legal copy of the game.

So just making your file structure open or providing content creation tools doesn't mean anything other than "people can use it to modify the game as long as they keep it to the game and don't turn it into standalone releases". Because that would not be legal. It's only legal to use the tools in connection with the full version of the original game, and make all user-created content dependent on having the full version of the game installed.

This has nothing to do with making anything "open source".

Yes, if you have your own tools instead of licensed ones, you can just offer them to the owners of the game to modify the game with.
There's no "giving them away for free" there. The game isn't being given away for free, either, is it? You have to buy the game to use the tools, and all content created with them only work with the game. What's "free" about that?

Bonus points for releasing your tools to the community: if talented modders appear, you can offer them a job when you start working on the sequel and need additional level designers. They have shown their talent and are already proficient with the exact tools you use to build your levels. Win-win situation.

 

[Father Foreskin]

I HAVE CONVINCED MYSELF BOYS ITS GONNA BE GOOD!!!1!! FUCK AMEN SIEG HEIL. This is the last time you can do this. Somebody mentioned Microsoft. No matter how bad this game is, wait until you see xbox exclusive "skyrim" they shit out.

 

[Thonius]

Sooo, now we are on "mods will fix it" stage?
We are making great progress here.

 

[Father Foreskin]

Dont you come here to bash this masterpiece. Mods would fix it if it needed fixing. Thats why it doesnt have mods, nothing to fix. Get this epic game from the Epic store, its gonna be like first person Arcanum!

 

[Sailor Woedica]

This is cool, they've updated Felix icon since the first gameplay video 3 months ago!

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

And it looks worse now. Tides of Numanum, again?

 

[ciox]

And it looks worse now. Tides of Numanum, again?

The one on the left is the new one.

 

[frajaq]

Isn't this game going to be a LOT less modding-friendly because of the engine? I could swear I read something like that somewhere

 

[Duraframe300]

Dont you come here to bash this masterpiece. Mods would fix it if it needed fixing. Thats why it doesnt have mods, nothing to fix. Get this epic game from the Epic store, its gonna be like first person Arcanum!

(Not sure if deliberate or unintentional though)

 

[CyberWhale]

This is cool, they've updated Felix icon since the first gameplay video 3 months ago!

Has a bigger nose than me FFS.

 

[Ismaul]

And it looks worse now. Tides of Numanum, again?

The one on the left is the new one.

And I'd say the new version looks worse still, more generic, averaged out. The older design with the big nose and smile at least is recognizable and seems like he has a distinct personnality. A flawed but endearing character, rather than a commitee-designed-one-size-fits-all supermodel.

Also the yellow outline's ugly.

 

[Yosharian]

And it looks worse now. Tides of Numanum, again?

The one on the left is the new one.

And I'd say the new version looks worse still, more generic, averaged out. The older design with the big nose and smile at least is recognizable and seems like he has a distinct personnality. A flawed but endearing character, rather than a commitee-designed-one-size-fits-all supermodel.

Also the yellow outline's ugly.

The one on the right looks like a fucking retard...

 

[Fairfax]

Why not: "Obsidian's salaries aren't competitive, so the only people applying must really be grognards"

I am not saying you are wrong, I just find the argument lacking.

My impression is that grognards would rather work on lower budget games and make fewer compromises for the mass market. Sawyer himself has confirmed that he and Bobby Null are the biggest systems nerds at Obsidian, and that most other Obsidian designers can't even play Pillars of Eternity on hard.

I agree with the first part, but Sawyer and Null aren't examples, since they're not grognards.

Is there any way to defend this game anymore?

Sure.

1) Convince yourself that you don't care that much about Epic Games Store exclusivity.

2) Convince yourself that the twenty minute townkilling stream at PAX East was an abberation and that the Game Informer videos are more representative of how the final game will look and play.

There you go, hype restored.

Weirdly negative coming from you. What made you turn on this game (at least to a certain extent)?

 

[Roguey]

I agree with the first part, but Sawyer and Null aren't examples, since they're not grognards.

Sawyer made the claim that Bobby was the biggest grog at Obsidian, so in that case, they don't have any.

(this is why I specifically referred to them as "systems nerds")

 

[AwesomeButton]

Any negative opinions on the outlook for ToW should be split in a separate thread so they don't dirty the landscape.

 

[Infinitron]

Weirdly negative coming from you. What made you turn on this game (at least to a certain extent)?

It was not meant to be negative or positive. My default attitude towards things is "upbeat but detached neutrality"

 

[Sailor Woedica]

And it looks worse now. Tides of Numanum, again?

The one on the left is the new one.

And I'd say the new version looks worse still, more generic, averaged out. The older design with the big nose and smile at least is recognizable and seems like he has a distinct personnality. A flawed but endearing character, rather than a commitee-designed-one-size-fits-all supermodel.

Also the yellow outline's ugly.

He still looks cute and unique, and really like Kylo Ren

Tho hopefully he doesn’t have the mood swings Kylo gets