Community The RPG Codex's Top 70 PC RPGs (And Some Hidden Gems)

[Shaki]

Planescape: Torment is a bit more than that. It uses the AD&D 2E ruleset, poorly like every RTWP game with shitty combat like ever RTWP rpgs.

I mean, if you're trying to say that RTwP combat in Torment is anything like BG/IWD, then you should probably check yourself for a brain tumor.

Planescape combat is even shittier than IWD one, but RTWP is bad by defaut in any case.

Sure, I'm not a fan of RTwP in general, I said many times that the whole thing was a mistake and exist purely because publishers forced RPG devs to make their games more similar to Diablo. But compared to PST, other Infinity Engine games, especially BG2, are in a completely different league. You couldn't really call their combat tactical, and it doesn't have replayability without mods like SCS, but going through the game first time it can be challenging, harder encounters are basically designed as puzzles which you need to solve (usually solution comes down to picking the right tool for the job), and it can be very satisfying. Once you figured shit out, the challenge never returns, but for one blind playthrough it is very decent, which can't be said for PST where combat is literally a brainless chore and very clearly an afterthought.

 

[luj1]

Underrail is way more difficult than Fallout and that's a plus. It doesn't "require powergaming", you just need to git gud. On my first playthrough I literally made an 800-damage, one-punch "monk" build without any metagaming. Just combined the Combo feat with a pneumatic glove.

I have doubts that you were able to do this without planning your build in advance.

The real tragedy (the real cringe) is believing that creating OP builds is some esoteric knowledge. After 25 years of playing these games under your belt!

Underrail is an entirely original system, not some D&D-like.

I know, right. Because every CRPG released in the last 25 years was D&D.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[luj1]

Notice how the replayability in Underrail consists of trying new builds but not experiencing new things in the game because the game plays the exact same every fucking time, only the type of weapons used changes. This is fake replayability.

In Bloodlines, a Malkovian feels different to a Nosferatu, the Nosferatu feels different to the other clans. This is TRUE replayability.

C&C and story-based replayability are gimmicks anyway.

C&C was never a principal tenet of CRPGs.

It was a principal tenet of text adventures - such as the Colossal Cave Adventure, Oregon Trail or Michael Crichton's Amazon - and CYOA gamebooks.

Thus the problem is people making CRPGs into something they're not, via deconstructing genre boundaries and other norms. Post-modernism plays a huge role here.

 

[Serious_Business]

The Russian RPG community offers critique.

Going hard eh? True warriors. I'm about to fall asleep. These ruskies are intensely sensitive works of lard, they should take over this place. They'd ban everyone in about two weeks. Gotta stop it going down the toilet. More than 20 years of flushing, by now. Yeah baby

 

[Mortmal]

The Russian RPG community offers critique.

The degradation of the RPG community on the example of the latest Top 70 PC RPGs by RPG Codex​

realavt

“This list is getting worse with each passing year” - here and hereafter periodic quotes from reviews and discussion of this list. The actual culprit of the celebration (there are some numbering issues): https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=12405

View attachment 54259

A true RPG according to RPG Codex!

And its short version without reviews and without the list of hidden jams, just pictures with game names:

The Degradation of the RPG Community as exemplified by RPG Codex's fresh Top 70 PC RPGs.

It's an asshole. Over the past decades, the genre's “Overton window” has only ever shifted to the fifth point. Slowly, pushing action game after action game into the lists of “real RPGs”, because they still have a strong RPG component! Deus Ex, System Shock 2 and Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines have already become familiar, they've been dismissed - and as a result of such connivance we've come to the point where “From gameplay perspective it is not much of an RPG, but combat is fun and fluid, locations are interesting to explore, art design is top notch and music is just godly”. But it has a delicious ass - and by today's RPG standards, this is a very strong argument for this anime slasher to climb to 66th place, beating several classic titles! Well, there is such an anime drama in the story, such teenage philosophy and railroads suffer so much....

Of course, it was not limited to that - Dark Souls is on the 21st place, and Elden Ring is on the 60th, also beating a bunch of more “role-playing” representatives. Rolling and parrying defeated thoughtful gameplay, and there was little left of RPG elements. Against this backdrop, we don't even want to pick on Diablo II in 37th place, although a couple of decades ago, the attempt to classify it as an RPG caused a hilarious cholivars in the role-playing community.

And Disco Elysium in 19th place, yep. It looks so ridiculous that reviewers immediately start twirling their sirloins and piling on their pathetic babble of excuses, soy “Disco Elysium is not a game, but an experience” - so why would you put it on a list of the best RPGs if it's only an EXPIRIENCE! Shove it in the lists of best indie EXPIRIENCE or whatever.... But in the end, Avernum: Escape from the Pit, Blackguards, Albion, Divine Divinity and others were left out - they had to have a separate list of hidden jams, because even the authors of the top realized what absurdity was going on here.

Anyway, congratulations on the degradation, gentlemen! A few more years - and all this will crawl to the first places, finally ousting the still recognized “kings of RPGs” from there...

And some quotes to top it off:

"At least this one doesn't have trails in the sky or undertale"
"Fallout over Planescape is enough reason to discard the list."
"Divine Divinity is probably the best Ultima game out there and the game isn't even considered. This top is peak clownery."
"Original Sin games are nowhere to be seen anymore. Almost as if Larian fanboys jump from one shiny new toy to the next."
"Faggout new vegas at #10, Morronwind at #8, Kingdom come deliverance at #16, Human Revolution at 63 (lmao it's garbage), this place is like Reddit on hindsight. Also Elden Ring wtf?"
"Most of the people who voted for this list are new fags with no respect and reputation, I don't consider it a legit Codex list."
"Disco being that high is the real travesty."
"Disco is a visual novel, not an RPG and no amount of RPGCodex awards will miracle it into being one."
"Underrail is the most overrated game here, propped up by the Serbian diaspora. In reality, it's medium tier garbage, with forgettable storyline, railroaded questlines and full of trash mobs."

https://dtf.ru/games/2939485-degrad...a-primere-svezhego-top-70-pk-rpg-ot-rpg-codex

Also visit my thread on trying to make future lists better.

Well, you can tell your Russian friends that the poll was conducted unofficially with little participation, and was later endorsed as official by the staff out of sheer laziness.

 

[ind33d]

why doesn't RPGCodex have a section where we can whine and bitch about things we don't like in video games so modders can fix them

the criticism is kind of meaningless without implementation

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

The Russian RPG community offers critique.

The degradation of the RPG community on the example of the latest Top 70 PC RPGs by RPG Codex​

realavt

“This list is getting worse with each passing year” - here and hereafter periodic quotes from reviews and discussion of this list. The actual culprit of the celebration (there are some numbering issues): https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=12405

View attachment 54259

A true RPG according to RPG Codex!

And its short version without reviews and without the list of hidden jams, just pictures with game names:

The Degradation of the RPG Community as exemplified by RPG Codex's fresh Top 70 PC RPGs.

It's an asshole. Over the past decades, the genre's “Overton window” has only ever shifted to the fifth point. Slowly, pushing action game after action game into the lists of “real RPGs”, because they still have a strong RPG component! Deus Ex, System Shock 2 and Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines have already become familiar, they've been dismissed - and as a result of such connivance we've come to the point where “From gameplay perspective it is not much of an RPG, but combat is fun and fluid, locations are interesting to explore, art design is top notch and music is just godly”. But it has a delicious ass - and by today's RPG standards, this is a very strong argument for this anime slasher to climb to 66th place, beating several classic titles! Well, there is such an anime drama in the story, such teenage philosophy and railroads suffer so much....

Of course, it was not limited to that - Dark Souls is on the 21st place, and Elden Ring is on the 60th, also beating a bunch of more “role-playing” representatives. Rolling and parrying defeated thoughtful gameplay, and there was little left of RPG elements. Against this backdrop, we don't even want to pick on Diablo II in 37th place, although a couple of decades ago, the attempt to classify it as an RPG caused a hilarious cholivars in the role-playing community.

And Disco Elysium in 19th place, yep. It looks so ridiculous that reviewers immediately start twirling their sirloins and piling on their pathetic babble of excuses, soy “Disco Elysium is not a game, but an experience” - so why would you put it on a list of the best RPGs if it's only an EXPIRIENCE! Shove it in the lists of best indie EXPIRIENCE or whatever.... But in the end, Avernum: Escape from the Pit, Blackguards, Albion, Divine Divinity and others were left out - they had to have a separate list of hidden jams, because even the authors of the top realized what absurdity was going on here.

Anyway, congratulations on the degradation, gentlemen! A few more years - and all this will crawl to the first places, finally ousting the still recognized “kings of RPGs” from there...

And some quotes to top it off:

"At least this one doesn't have trails in the sky or undertale"
"Fallout over Planescape is enough reason to discard the list."
"Divine Divinity is probably the best Ultima game out there and the game isn't even considered. This top is peak clownery."
"Original Sin games are nowhere to be seen anymore. Almost as if Larian fanboys jump from one shiny new toy to the next."
"Faggout new vegas at #10, Morronwind at #8, Kingdom come deliverance at #16, Human Revolution at 63 (lmao it's garbage), this place is like Reddit on hindsight. Also Elden Ring wtf?"
"Most of the people who voted for this list are new fags with no respect and reputation, I don't consider it a legit Codex list."
"Disco being that high is the real travesty."
"Disco is a visual novel, not an RPG and no amount of RPGCodex awards will miracle it into being one."
"Underrail is the most overrated game here, propped up by the Serbian diaspora. In reality, it's medium tier garbage, with forgettable storyline, railroaded questlines and full of trash mobs."

https://dtf.ru/games/2939485-degrad...a-primere-svezhego-top-70-pk-rpg-ot-rpg-codex

Also visit my thread on trying to make future lists better.

It's not an RPG community, it's actually an extremely casual popamole general-gaming community. They have no idea what an RPG is. At least on the dex we know.

 

[Ryzer]

Notice how the replayability in Underrail consists of trying new builds but not experiencing new things in the game because the game plays the exact same every fucking time, only the type of weapons used changes. This is fake authentic replayability.

There, fixed it for you. C&C is not a storyfag concept, but a simulationist one. I'm not claiming that Underrail did it right though.

I think the Outer Worlds might be more to your liking.

 

[Hag]

They have no idea what an RPG is. At least on the dex we know.

Can you remind me what it is though ?

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

They have no idea what an RPG is. At least on the dex we know.

Can you remind me what it is though ?

Sure. It's not just gamers who need to categorize things. We can look to other fields to see how specialists do it. In linguistics, for example, a dialect becomes a separate language when it reaches less than 60% of common vocabulary with its base language. (this is why Ukrainian is a dialect of Russian)

In biology, DNA is used to differentiate between species.
So if we take GAMEPLAY ELEMENTS as "DNA" of a game, we should check if these elements are RPG attributes and assign them weight, based on how important they are to the game. If a game carries over 60% (weighted) RPG elements, it's an RPG.
We need to decide what elements belong to an RPG, e.g. inventory, choice & consequence, quests. What elements are too generic to belong to any genre, e.g. walking. And what elements typically belong to other genres, e.g. driving. And what elements belong to multiple genres, e.g. shooting a bow can belong to "RPG" and "FPS", etc.

I hope I've given a framework for anyone who wants to do the hard work. You first need to make a list of all gameplay elements that exist in all games. Then we need to categorize the elements by genre, by popular vote. What will emerge is a scientific definition of an RPG. Then it'll be a matter of "DNA sequencing" any game to see if it's an RPG or not, which is easily done.

If anyone wants to do it, that's how it should be done.
I personally am not emotionally vested into it. I've made a thread explaining why Dark Souls is an RPG. If ratings are anything to go by, most people agree. Good enough for me.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

The Russian RPG community offers critique.

Now translate all 551 (and counting) comments.

 

[Shaki]

Notice how the replayability in Underrail consists of trying new builds but not experiencing new things in the game because the game plays the exact same every fucking time, only the type of weapons used changes. This is fake replayability.

In Bloodlines, a Malkovian feels different to a Nosferatu, the Nosferatu feels different to the other clans. This is TRUE replayability.

C&C and story-based replayability are gimmicks anyway.

C&C was never a principal tenet of CRPGs.

It was a principal tenet of text adventures - such as the Colossal Cave Adventure, Oregon Trail or Michael Crichton's Amazon - and CYOA gamebooks.

Thus the problem is people making CRPGs into something they're not, via deconstructing genre boundaries and other norms. Post-modernism plays a huge role here.

C&C is a principal tenet. But not the modern "C&C" like having some different flavour of dialogue option depending on what previous flavour of dialogue option you chose, or having slightly different ending slides. Actual important C&C, is facing hard choices at character creation screen, then having to live with the consequences. Underrail is a masterclass in C&C.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Notice how the replayability in Underrail consists of trying new builds but not experiencing new things in the game because the game plays the exact same every fucking time, only the type of weapons used changes. This is fake replayability.

In Bloodlines, a Malkovian feels different to a Nosferatu, the Nosferatu feels different to the other clans. This is TRUE replayability.

C&C and story-based replayability are gimmicks anyway.

C&C was never a principal tenet of CRPGs.

It was a principal tenet of text adventures - such as the Colossal Cave Adventure, Oregon Trail or Michael Crichton's Amazon - and CYOA gamebooks.

Thus the problem is people making CRPGs into something they're not, via deconstructing genre boundaries and other norms. Post-modernism plays a huge role here.

C&C is a principal tenet. But not the modern "C&C" like having some different flavour of dialogue option depending on what previous flavour of dialogue option you chose, or having slightly different ending slides. Actual important C&C, is facing hard choices at character creation screen, then having to live with the consequences. Underrail is a masterclass in C&C.

Storyfags successfuly redefined what is C&C over a decade ago unfortunately, now it just means cosmetic bullshit like branching storylines and multiple romanceable characters.

 

[luj1]

They have no idea what an RPG is. At least on the dex we know.

Can you remind me what it is though ?

See my signature

 

[luj1]

Actual important C&C, is facing hard choices at character creation screen

That's not what people mean by C&C though

Storyfags successfuly redefined what is C&C over a decade ago unfortunately, now it just means cosmetic bullshit like branching storylines

Exactly

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

They have no idea what an RPG is. At least on the dex we know.

Can you remind me what it is though ?

See my signature

"During the 60s and 70s, two new trends in wargaming emerged:
1. Small-unit rulesets. This allowed individual players to portray small units down to even a single figure. These rules expanded the abilities of the smaller units accordingly, to magnify their effect on the overall battle.
2. Growing interest in fantasy miniatures. Mainly due to Tolkien's novels The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Rules were quickly developed to play fantasy wargames (previously Napoleonic and American Civil War, medieval and Roman-era wargames).
These converged in the creation of TTRPGs whose original format can therefore be approximated as small-scale fantasy wargaming."

Your signature is missing both the character customization/progression aspects of RPGs and also the exploration aspects, both courtesy of Dave Arneson and his Blackmoor campaign, though it was preceded by Dave Wesely's Braunstein games, in which each player controlled a single character, and Duane Jenkins' Brownstone campaign, which innovated on Braunstein by introducing continuity with a campaign of indefinite length.

 

[Camel]

The RPG Codex's Top 70 PC RPGs (And Some Hidden Gems) presented to you by a guy who thinks Hitler was right.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

These top 70 RPGs are all shit.

Also, I wish Codex would lose its Fallout boner. The OG fallouts are shit. The only one semi-worth playing is New Vegas, but even then, there are better non-shit games to play first.

 

[luj1]

The OG fallouts are shit