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Community The RPG Codex's Top 70 PC RPGs (And Some Hidden Gems)

Arthandas

Prophet
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,482
"You must wait 3 turns to throw the next grenade" - Superior in gameplay perspective. lmao.
If you don't understand why a game focusing on a turn based combat and character builds limits usage of hard hitting aoe attacks, then you have no place in this conversation.
It will probably blow your mind, but it's a video game, not a reality simulator, gameplay > realism, and yes, Underrail is superior in all things relating to combat.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,397
Finally! Good effort, though I remain disappointed that Mankind Divided didn't make the cut, it deserved the spot over Human Revolution.

Makes sense that a site that values writing over gameplay would value the nu-DX with a better story over the one with better gameplay and worse story. Sure, there's A Criminal Past, but how many people have actually played it?

Now, now, you can't draw that conclusion, it could easily be that said JA3 fangirls thought JA3 was better than BG3 in 2024 but neither was good enough to make their top 10 RPGs ever...

What this poll does categorically prove, however, is that NWN2 is better than BG3. :smug:

The power of Mask of the Betrayer's story.

Similar games are still being made today by developers like Owlcat. If Codexers were honest and consistent, they would rate those newer games higher.

They're an aesthetic abomination to those who like the late 90s fantasy style.

Somebody explain to me in what way is Fallout or Fallout 2 better than Underrail. Other than McHamburger jokes.

Writing, art style, role-playing, no powergaming required to complete it...

Sure an Underrail fan would consider that last one a flaw. The Tim Cain-style gamer wouldn't.

Tim Cain said:
If I have to go online to figure out how to spend my level up point or I have to use a spreadsheet to figure it out, at that point I'm usually like "I'm done."
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
8,225
Let's look at how some 2010s games fared between the 2019 list and the 2024 list:

Fallout New Vegas: 7th -> 10th
Age of Decadence: 11th -> 15th
Dark Souls: 12th -> 21st
Pathfinder Kingmaker: 13th -> 24th
The Witcher 3: 15th -> 24th

Underrail: 16th -> 12th

Grimoire: 22nd -> 34th
Shadowrun Dragonfall: 28th -> 44th
Dragon's Dogma: 30th -> 42nd
Divinity Original Sin: 32nd -> didn't make the cut
Divinity Original Sin 2: 32nd -> didn't make the cut

Kingdom Come Deliverance: 34th -> 16th

ELEX: 38th -> didn't make the cut
Mount & Blade Warband: 39th -> 42nd
ATOM RPG: 44th -> 58th
Pillars of Eternity: 45th -> didn't make the cut
Pillars of Eternity 2: 45th -> 63rd
Battle Brothers: 49th -> 63rd
Alpha Protocol: 50th -> 58th


Almost all of them ranked lower in 2024. Underrail actually ranked higher. I think we can conclude that it has joined the ranks of the Codex Classics. 12th is not a remotely bad spot.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
14,538
Location
Eastern block
Similar games are still being made today by developers like Owlcat. If Codexers were honest and consistent, they would rate those newer games higher.
They're an aesthetic abomination to those who like the late 90s fantasy style.

The problem with Owlcat games isn't really aesthetics.

Their number one problem is feature bloat. Kingdom management in Kingmaker, Crusade system in Wrath, ship combat or whatever in Rogue Trader, etc.

The people hate it every single time but Owlcat absolutely *loves* to do this. It's very funny. There's a reason why they do it, though.

Their first game was crowdfunded and crowdfunded games generally end up having a ton of feature bloat because of stretch goals.

Since then they just "ran with it" because (1) it's easier to automate gameplay than create traditional quest structure (saves development time), (2) it's a nice trick to artificially prolong gameplay hours (automated events and "time attacks") and (3) neogamers are generally attracted to minigames and feature bloat (they believe it's innovating).
 

Xorazm

Cipher
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
129
Kudos to Butter for pulling this one out, and to everyone who helped with the reviews. :salute:

I agree. This is the best list I saw on this site. Butter should replace you and your cucked lists, permanently.
2014 list is still pinnacle to me:

https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9453

Everything up to about 40 or so is pretty much sent down from Mount Sinai (after which it starts to get a little ... well we didn't have as much to choose from).

Almost every classic has taken a beating.

Two Wizardys in the top 15 is correct. Banishing Crusaders 11 spots below the original Witcher ... I don't know what to tell you.

Betrayal at Krondor at 16, now it's nearly 20 spots lower.

World of Xeen drops 20 places.

Darklands suffers another near 20 place tumble.

Quest of the Avatar, easily among the most innovative and influential RPGs ever released, nearly doubles its decline, tumbling from 37 to a measly 63.

Wasteland goes from 42 to ... not worth a mention.

Neverwinter Nights 2 climbs from 61, right past almost every classic mentioned, to .... 26?

Diablo goes from not worth mentioning to 34, and Diablo 2 suddenly deserves a showing too.

Neverwinter Nights goes from also not deserving a mention to slotting in.

_________________

Times change I guess.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
14,538
Location
Eastern block
Writing, art style, role-playing, no powergaming required to complete it...

Sure an Underrail fan would consider that last one a flaw. The Tim Cain-style gamer wouldn't.

What the fuck is a "Tim Cain-style gamer"? Did you just describe yourself? Sounds very gay.

Underrail is way more difficult than Fallout and that's a plus. It doesn't "require powergaming", you just need to git gud. On my first playthrough I literally made an 800-damage, one-punch "monk" build without any metagaming. Just combined the Combo feat with a pneumatic glove.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
14,538
Location
Eastern block

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,397
What the fuck is a "Tim Cain-style gamer"? Did you just describe yourself? Sounds very gay.

I'm Tim-adjacent but I don't share his tastes exactly.

Underrail is way more difficult than Fallout and that's a plus. It doesn't "require powergaming", you just need to git gud. On my first playthrough I literally made an 800-damage, one-punch "monk" build without any metagaming. Just combined the Combo feat with a pneumatic glove.

I have doubts that you were able to do this without planning your build in advance.

I looked up the feat list and all the prerequisites and planned my character in advance. I completed it, but I still struggled at parts, and this was on Normal. A casual who just waltzes in and makes a role-playing build and chooses whatever feats reinforce that role-playing build is going to have a hard time.
 

Shaki

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
1,629
Location
Hyperborea
Also the data was clear, 40+ unknown brand new or <10 post accounts coming out of the woodwork for 5/5 BG3 in GOTY poll.
JA3 received a significant number of false 5s from people who did not want BG3 to win because they were mad about bears.
That's bs, no one expected JA3 to be that high, people who did the anti-BG3 vote went to vote 5/5 for Colonoscopy Shit which was seen as the one possible contender.

JA3 won simply because it was a decent game that no one really hated, while all the other ones were controversial. It went under the radar, so most people voted for it honestly, and despite having more 4/5 votes than 5/5 - it was simply well liked across the spectrum, while BG3 had as many haters dropping 1/5, as people using their alts to drop 5/5's, and both Colony Ship and Rogue Trader had a fair share of passionate haters too.
 

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,468
Let's look at how some 2010s games fared between the 2019 list and the 2024 list
Eh, not much point given the difference in methodology. It's good, clean snapshot of what RPGs the Codex values around 2024, particularly the top 10, but things get looser the further down the list you go and I wouldn't read too much in the historical progression.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
14,538
Location
Eastern block
Underrail is way more difficult than Fallout and that's a plus. It doesn't "require powergaming", you just need to git gud. On my first playthrough I literally made an 800-damage, one-punch "monk" build without any metagaming. Just combined the Combo feat with a pneumatic glove.

I have doubts that you were able to do this without planning your build in advance.

The real tragedy (the real cringe) is believing that creating OP builds is some esoteric knowledge. After 25 years of playing these games under your belt!
 

Ryzer

Arcane
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
6,740
I should mention that Underrail features some of the most horrible game decisions: respawning enemies, vendors that restock using real time ( have fun roaming around for 20 minutes to get the right supply) , cooldown-based combat, hp bloat on higher difficulties, lot of trash mobs and reused enemies.

Underrail instills pure decline but Codex slurps it up because it's Serbian and Styg does post on the codex.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,374
"You must wait 3 turns to throw the next grenade" - Superior in gameplay perspective. lmao.
If you don't understand why a game focusing on a turn based combat and character builds limits usage of hard hitting aoe attacks, then you have no place in this conversation.
It will probably blow your mind, but it's a video game, not a reality simulator, gameplay > realism, and yes, Underrail is superior in all things relating to combat.
Only having one character to manage in a turn-based game is already a questionable choice by itself. It's a sympathetic indie game that does many things right, but everything Ryzer said is true.
 

Shaki

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
1,629
Location
Hyperborea
Icewind Dale receives a lot of favor for being a competent fantasy game released in 2000 with the art and writing style that existed in the period between 1996 and 2003. As the Kickstarter revolution proved, you can't go home again when it comes to style, it's just not the same.
I'd kill for more games like Icewind Dale. Almost nobody has the restraint to make them. I can't describe how great it felt to play Knights of the Chalice and see a game that wasn't trying to impress me with its word count. If it had the breadth of classes and production value of IWD, it would be the best RPG ever made.
The Codex darlings are vastly overrated, and the top three games only maintain their status due to nostalgia.
Not true for Arcanum. Others sure, if they didn't exist and were created today, Codex would probably hate them, especially Torment which is basically same shit as Disco Elysium. But Arcanum would be hailed as a masterpiece no matter what. It's a monumental achievement, one of the peak creations of humanity, the art transcending time. It will be as awe-inspiring in 2500 as it was in 2001.

Yes, there are many games that are more fun to play, if we're voting the most fun to play game, then Battle Brothers would be my #1. But Arcanum is so great, because while it does some things badly, it also does some things better than any game ever did, and shows how insanely good could RPGs be, in the right circumstances. It's a proof of concept, showing that pretty much perfect RPG could already be created 20+ years ago, if only Troika had more money to fulfill their ambitions. It's as important today, because it also shows how little love or passion for RPGs still exists in the industry, because evern with budgets 200x higher, top studios are still unable to replicate even a fraction of its achievements. BG3 with their insane budget and time spent on the game, hailed for their "never seen before" reactivity, still doesnt even begin to approach the C&C/Reactivity that Arcanum had. Owlcat with their uber autist over9000 classes Pathfinder games, doesn't come close to the depth of character creation Arcanum offered. Despite the explosion of AAA open world RPGs "See that planet you can fly to it!", no open world game even offered as big and intricate hand-crafted world to explore as Arcanum.

I doubt we'll ever see a company trying to make such a game again. Troika was the perfect storm of ambition, passion, talent, and caring about the right things, they only lacked money. As time goes, even if new companies get money and talent, the market realities will always force them to allocate more and more budget and time to graphics, voice acting, motion capture, and all the other pointless dogshit, hurting the other aspects of the game, so the peaks of Arcanum will probably never be reached again. There was one chance in the history of humanity to make a perfect RPG, and while it failed, Arcanum will forever be a proof that it was not impossible, and serve as an inspiration and a ray of hope to all real, passionate RPG gamers and creators.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
14,538
Location
Eastern block
Codex would probably hate them, especially Torment which is basically same shit as Disco Elysium

Nah, that's fake news

PST has so much trash combat, it's like playing Red Alert

Disco Elysium doesn't have combat, the whole gameplay is just picking dialogue choices

I see a lot of people say this but it just isn't true. Go play the fucking game
 

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