Community The RPG Codex's Top 70 PC RPGs (And Some Hidden Gems)

[Eisen]

A shame that ELEX didn't make to the top 70, didn't vote because i've beaten these days.

 

[Beans00]

Earlier this year, Codex voted for JA3 over BG3 as 2023 Game of the Year. And yet here we are with BG3 making the Top 70 and JA3 nowhere in sight. You've been found out.

Funny how that works, huh?

In a poll this broad, many of the people who voted for JA3 would just vote for JA2 instead. Meanwhile BG3 is a seminal enough game to stand on its own.

Because people think it's funny and people also think both of you are annoying shills.
Face it, no one gives a fuck about either of your opinions on RPGs.

I didn't vote JA3, or BG3 in the goty post because I didn't play either of them. FYI. Being higher in this list doesn't mean people on this forum like bg3 more. It means the hardcore bg3 fans have it in their top 10, while JA3 fans might only have it in their top 20, or 30.



As for the list itself, there are some picks I disagree with of course but I appreciate the effort of every1 involved. Some games are too high, some are too low but everyone will feel that way.

 

[luj1]

A casual who just waltzes in and makes a role-playing build [snip] is going to have a hard time.

 

[Mortmal]

Icewind Dale receives a lot of favor for being a competent fantasy game released in 2000 with the art and writing style that existed in the period between 1996 and 2003. As the Kickstarter revolution proved, you can't go home again when it comes to style, it's just not the same.

I'd kill for more games like Icewind Dale. Almost nobody has the restraint to make them. I can't describe how great it felt to play Knights of the Chalice and see a game that wasn't trying to impress me with its word count. If it had the breadth of classes and production value of IWD, it would be the best RPG ever made.

The Codex darlings are vastly overrated, and the top three games only maintain their status due to nostalgia.

Not true for Arcanum. Others sure, if they didn't exist and were created today, Codex would probably hate them, especially Torment which is basically same shit as Disco Elysium. But Arcanum would be hailed as a masterpiece no matter what. It's a monumental achievement, one of the peak creations of humanity, the art transcending time. It will be as awe-inspiring in 2500 as it was in 2001.

Yes, there are many games that are more fun to play, if we're voting the most fun to play game, then Battle Brothers would be my #1. But Arcanum is so great, because while it does some things badly, it also does some things better than any game ever did, and shows how insanely good could RPGs be, in the right circumstances. It's a proof of concept, showing that pretty much perfect RPG could already be created 20+ years ago, if only Troika had more money to fulfill their ambitions. It's as important today, because it also shows how little love or passion for RPGs still exists in the industry, because evern with budgets 200x higher, top studios are still unable to replicate even a fraction of its achievements. BG3 with their insane budget and time spent on the game, hailed for their "never seen before" reactivity, still doesnt even begin to approach the C&C/Reactivity that Arcanum had. Owlcat with their uber autist over9000 classes Pathfinder games, doesn't come close to the depth of character creation Arcanum offered. Despite the explosion of AAA open world RPGs "See that planet you can fly to it!", no open world game even offered as big and intricate hand-crafted world to explore as Arcanum.

I doubt we'll ever see a company trying to make such a game again. Troika was the perfect storm of ambition, passion, talent, and caring about the right things, they only lacked money. As time goes, even if new companies get money and talent, the market realities will always force them to allocate more and more budget and time to graphics, voice acting, motion capture, and all the other pointless dogshit, hurting the other aspects of the game, so the peaks of Arcanum will probably never be reached again. There was one chance in the history of humanity to make a perfect RPG, and while it failed, Arcanum will forever be a proof that it was not impossible, and serve as an inspiration and a ray of hope to all real, passionate RPG gamers and creators.

I knew it wasn't sincere and sounded like you asked AI to praise Arcanum. Poor AI never played it... Not that it's much different from most Codexers, they never played it either, mind you.

 

[Beans00]

Somebody explain to me in what way is Fallout or Fallout 2 better than Underrail.

Underrail is great but it can't match the atmosphere, writing and style of Fallout

Ironically my favorite part about underrail was the story, atmosphere and world. Although to me it felt like a non retarded version of metro 2033, rather than fallout.

 

[Shaki]

Codex would probably hate them, especially Torment which is basically same shit as Disco Elysium

Nah, that's fake news

PST has so much trash combat, it's like playing Red Alert

Disco Elysium doesn't have combat, the whole gameplay is just picking dialogue choices

I see a lot of people say this but it just isn't true. Go play the fucking game

Yes, PST is basically Disco Elysium + trash combat, it's an aftertought thrown in there because devs thought an RPG has to have combat, otherwise people will call it a point&click adventure and no one will play it.

Combat in PST doesnt change anything, it doesnt make it a better game, or different than Disco. You can't die, everything is uber slow on purpose so you can kite every enemy to death, there is no way to really lose combat. It there purely so they could say "we have combat", but very obviously no one gave a fuck about it.

Both games are in essence a point&click adventure games, (or visual novels, w/e you prefer) one is just wearing a suit that says "RPG" on it.

 

[Shaki]

Icewind Dale receives a lot of favor for being a competent fantasy game released in 2000 with the art and writing style that existed in the period between 1996 and 2003. As the Kickstarter revolution proved, you can't go home again when it comes to style, it's just not the same.

I'd kill for more games like Icewind Dale. Almost nobody has the restraint to make them. I can't describe how great it felt to play Knights of the Chalice and see a game that wasn't trying to impress me with its word count. If it had the breadth of classes and production value of IWD, it would be the best RPG ever made.

The Codex darlings are vastly overrated, and the top three games only maintain their status due to nostalgia.

Not true for Arcanum. Others sure, if they didn't exist and were created today, Codex would probably hate them, especially Torment which is basically same shit as Disco Elysium. But Arcanum would be hailed as a masterpiece no matter what. It's a monumental achievement, one of the peak creations of humanity, the art transcending time. It will be as awe-inspiring in 2500 as it was in 2001.

Yes, there are many games that are more fun to play, if we're voting the most fun to play game, then Battle Brothers would be my #1. But Arcanum is so great, because while it does some things badly, it also does some things better than any game ever did, and shows how insanely good could RPGs be, in the right circumstances. It's a proof of concept, showing that pretty much perfect RPG could already be created 20+ years ago, if only Troika had more money to fulfill their ambitions. It's as important today, because it also shows how little love or passion for RPGs still exists in the industry, because evern with budgets 200x higher, top studios are still unable to replicate even a fraction of its achievements. BG3 with their insane budget and time spent on the game, hailed for their "never seen before" reactivity, still doesnt even begin to approach the C&C/Reactivity that Arcanum had. Owlcat with their uber autist over9000 classes Pathfinder games, doesn't come close to the depth of character creation Arcanum offered. Despite the explosion of AAA open world RPGs "See that planet you can fly to it!", no open world game even offered as big and intricate hand-crafted world to explore as Arcanum.

I doubt we'll ever see a company trying to make such a game again. Troika was the perfect storm of ambition, passion, talent, and caring about the right things, they only lacked money. As time goes, even if new companies get money and talent, the market realities will always force them to allocate more and more budget and time to graphics, voice acting, motion capture, and all the other pointless dogshit, hurting the other aspects of the game, so the peaks of Arcanum will probably never be reached again. There was one chance in the history of humanity to make a perfect RPG, and while it failed, Arcanum will forever be a proof that it was not impossible, and serve as an inspiration and a ray of hope to all real, passionate RPG gamers and creators.

I knew it wasn't sincere and sounded like you asked AI to praise Arcanum. Poor AI never played it... Not that it's much different from most Codexers, they never played it either, mind you.

Literally wrote every single letter myself. Stop using these retarded sites.

 

[Mortmal]

Planescape: Torment is a bit more than that. It uses the AD&D 2E ruleset, poorly like every RTWP game with shitty combat like ever RTWP rpgs. The setting is well-known and popular , or was popular, which helps greatly and writing was great. Disco is quite under that it's more like a CYOA animated book.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Disco Elysium is better than shit Planescape Torment because DE actually leans into what it is. Planescape tries too hard to prove it's an RPG but all it is is a slog.

 

[Shaki]

Planescape: Torment is a bit more than that. It uses the AD&D 2E ruleset, poorly like every RTWP game with shitty combat like ever RTWP rpgs.

I mean, if you're trying to say that RTwP combat in Torment is anything like BG/IWD, then you should probably check yourself for a brain tumor.

 

[Infinitron]

Face it, no one gives a fuck about either of your opinions on RPGs.

I would have a lot less rating spam in my Notifications tab if that were true!

 

[luj1]

Well to be honest this is the reason,

and this is the result,

yikes

shit collector

 

[Sigourn]

Earlier this year, Codex voted for JA3 over BG3 as 2023 Game of the Year. And yet here we are with BG3 making the Top 70 and JA3 nowhere in sight. You've been found out.

BG3 fans are deluded into thinking their favorite game is Top 100 material. JA3 fans know better.

 

[Mortmal]

Planescape: Torment is a bit more than that. It uses the AD&D 2E ruleset, poorly like every RTWP game with shitty combat like ever RTWP rpgs.

I mean, if you're trying to say that RTwP combat in Torment is anything like BG/IWD, then you should probably check yourself for a brain tumor.

Planescape combat is even shittier than IWD one, but RTWP is bad by defaut in any case.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Somebody explain to me in what way is Fallout or Fallout 2 better than Underrail. Other than McHamburger jokes.

F1/2 is categorically worse than Underrail hands down. Underrail is the best RPG ever made by a mile, Fallout is only top 5 material (because there's only like 10 RPGs ever made that are worth ever replaying even once).

Writing:
Fallout is good, but not very ambitious, it's silly and superficial ameriburger setting that relies heavily on a retro aesthetic.
Underrail absolutely knocks it out of the park, with a truly fascinating future world that is FAR more original, FAR more developed, and FAR more subtle in its delivery. It goes beyond post-apo, well into Dying Earth territory backed up by Christian schizo esotericism as part of a very profound and subtly delivered backdrop.
It's like comparing Star Wars original trilogy (fallout) with Gene Wolfe's New/Long/Short Sun novel series (Underrail). I only understood that Underrail is an esoteric christian work because of reading Wolfe.

Preferring Fallout setting can only be the thought process of a true mental peasant.

Exploration:
Fallout is just your standard 2D world map. You can get a car I guess. And dodge encounters with Outdoorsman, also you might get irradiated or attacked at random.
Underrail is a far bigger world which is literally multi-layered with loads of different means of transport. You can open a path through underpassages to walk from SGS to Core City in like 5 screen transitions. You can learn riftwalking. You can get a jetski and explore the world map from an entirely fresh avenue of attack, visiting places you previously mostly visited by foot or fast-travel ferry. There are multiple quests relating to destroying or activating elevators, there's a tower which goes up so high, constantly getting colder and colder (you need lots of coal for campfires and good cold-res gear to not die), that you wonder at one point if you aren't looking out onto the surface of the planet, utterly dark and frozen. What happened to the sun?

Fallout 2 and Underrail both have a submarine to visit a special area. There is no contest, Underrail's submarine trip is a thousand times cooler and more atmospheric. Fallout 1/2 is objectively great, but when compared to Underrail it's mediocre in every way.

The only flaw in Underrail's writing is the playable story - it only makes sense with the protagonist being as insane of a risk-taker as Cugel the Clever, and going on a daring series of adventures just because he can. But that is still cool even if it makes a lot less sense than finding the water chip. Any fun RPG story ends up being a suicidal rampage anyway, plus setting and backstory >>> 'story'. What matters in a playable protagonist is that they pull the lever and press the red buttons. All of them.

Mechanics:
Obviously all of the mechanics and gameplay are far better in Underrail than in Fallout, don't even need to discuss that. Ryzer is kind of right that the mechanics (specifically feats) lock you into using a specific subset of weapons for a given run, but that is the only flaw.

Fallout's art WAS better than Underrail, but Underrail's visuals have surpassed Fallout in the more recent content, and will blow it out of the water with te Infusion sequel.
Fallout is going to be remembered as helping to lay the groundwork for Underrail, THE seminal work in the 'retro' (non-retard) RPG genre of the future.

If you prefer Fallout to Underrail and are reading this, you are a RETARD and should an hero immediately. Most likely you care a lot about drama among recruitable NPCs or something.

 

[lukaszek]

I see a lot of people say this but it just isn't true. Go play the fucking game

ban yt gaymers

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Codex would probably hate them, especially Torment which is basically same shit as Disco Elysium

Nah, that's fake news

PST has so much trash combat, it's like playing Red Alert

Disco Elysium doesn't have combat, the whole gameplay is just picking dialogue choices

I see a lot of people say this but it just isn't true. Go play the fucking game

You've totally owned the Disco-communists here, bro.

 

[Roguey]

The real tragedy (the real cringe) is believing that creating OP builds is some esoteric knowledge. After 25 years of playing these games under your belt!

Underrail is an entirely original system, not some D&D-like.

Yes, PST is basically Disco Elysium + trash combat, it's an aftertought thrown in there because devs thought an RPG has to have combat, otherwise people will call it a point&click adventure and no one will play it.

Combat in PST doesnt change anything, it doesnt make it a better game, or different than Disco. You can't die, everything is uber slow on purpose so you can kite every enemy to death, there is no way to really lose combat. It there purely so they could say "we have combat", but very obviously no one gave a fuck about it.

Both games are in essence a point&click adventure games, (or visual novels, w/e you prefer) one is just wearing a suit that says "RPG" on it.

Avellone himself strongly disagrees with this take and wishes that he had focused more on the combat.

 

[Twiglard]

The Russian RPG community offers critique.

The degradation of the RPG community on the example of the latest Top 70 PC RPGs by RPG Codex​

realavt

“This list is getting worse with each passing year” - here and hereafter periodic quotes from reviews and discussion of this list. The actual culprit of the celebration (there are some numbering issues): https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=12405

A true RPG according to RPG Codex!

And its short version without reviews and without the list of hidden jams, just pictures with game names:

The Degradation of the RPG Community as exemplified by RPG Codex's fresh Top 70 PC RPGs.

It's an asshole. Over the past decades, the genre's “Overton window” has only ever shifted to the fifth point. Slowly, pushing action game after action game into the lists of “real RPGs”, because they still have a strong RPG component! Deus Ex, System Shock 2 and Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines have already become familiar, they've been dismissed - and as a result of such connivance we've come to the point where “From gameplay perspective it is not much of an RPG, but combat is fun and fluid, locations are interesting to explore, art design is top notch and music is just godly”. But it has a delicious ass - and by today's RPG standards, this is a very strong argument for this anime slasher to climb to 66th place, beating several classic titles! Well, there is such an anime drama in the story, such teenage philosophy and railroads suffer so much....

Of course, it was not limited to that - Dark Souls is on the 21st place, and Elden Ring is on the 60th, also beating a bunch of more “role-playing” representatives. Rolling and parrying defeated thoughtful gameplay, and there was little left of RPG elements. Against this backdrop, we don't even want to pick on Diablo II in 37th place, although a couple of decades ago, the attempt to classify it as an RPG caused a hilarious cholivars in the role-playing community.

And Disco Elysium in 19th place, yep. It looks so ridiculous that reviewers immediately start twirling their sirloins and piling on their pathetic babble of excuses, soy “Disco Elysium is not a game, but an experience” - so why would you put it on a list of the best RPGs if it's only an EXPIRIENCE! Shove it in the lists of best indie EXPIRIENCE or whatever.... But in the end, Avernum: Escape from the Pit, Blackguards, Albion, Divine Divinity and others were left out - they had to have a separate list of hidden jams, because even the authors of the top realized what absurdity was going on here.

Anyway, congratulations on the degradation, gentlemen! A few more years - and all this will crawl to the first places, finally ousting the still recognized “kings of RPGs” from there...

And some quotes to top it off:

"At least this one doesn't have trails in the sky or undertale"
"Fallout over Planescape is enough reason to discard the list."
"Divine Divinity is probably the best Ultima game out there and the game isn't even considered. This top is peak clownery."
"Original Sin games are nowhere to be seen anymore. Almost as if Larian fanboys jump from one shiny new toy to the next."
"Faggout new vegas at #10, Morronwind at #8, Kingdom come deliverance at #16, Human Revolution at 63 (lmao it's garbage), this place is like Reddit on hindsight. Also Elden Ring wtf?"
"Most of the people who voted for this list are new fags with no respect and reputation, I don't consider it a legit Codex list."
"Disco being that high is the real travesty."
"Disco is a visual novel, not an RPG and no amount of RPGCodex awards will miracle it into being one."
"Underrail is the most overrated game here, propped up by the Serbian diaspora. In reality, it's medium tier garbage, with forgettable storyline, railroaded questlines and full of trash mobs."

https://dtf.ru/games/2939485-degrad...a-primere-svezhego-top-70-pk-rpg-ot-rpg-codex

Also visit my thread on trying to make future lists better.

 

[Bruno]

Underrail deserves a high place on the list. It is far from flawless, but the core tactical combat system is supremely well done.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Writing, art style, role-playing, no powergaming required to complete it...

Sure an Underrail fan would consider that last one a flaw. The Tim Cain-style gamer wouldn't.

If I have to go online to figure out how to spend my level up point or I have to use a spreadsheet to figure it out, at that point I'm usually like "I'm done."

kill xirself
You only need to powergame Underrail if you picked Hard (moderate powergaming required) or Dominating (still room for suboptimal choices and dozens of different builds can win)

 

[Ryzer]

Notice how the replayability in Underrail consists of trying new builds but not experiencing new things in the game because the game plays the exact same every fucking time, only the type of weapons used changes. This is fake replayability.

In Bloodlines, a Malkovian feels different to a Nosferatu, the Nosferatu feels different to the other clans. This is TRUE replayability.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Notice how the replayability in Underrail consists of trying new builds but not experiencing new things in the game because the game plays the exact same every fucking time, only the type of weapons used changes. This is fake replayability.

In Bloodlines, a Malkovian feels different to a Nosferatu, the Nosferatu feels different to the other clans. This is TRUE replayability.

C&C and story-based replayability are gimmicks anyway.

 

[ind33d]

Disco Elysium is better than shit Planescape Torment because DE actually leans into what it is. Planescape tries too hard to prove it's an RPG but all it is is a slog.

i'm not a communist but if anyone thinks Disco is better than Torment they should be in a gulag

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Notice how the replayability in Underrail consists of trying new builds but not experiencing new things in the game because the game plays the exact same every fucking time, only the type of weapons used changes. This is fake authentic replayability.

There, fixed it for you. C&C is not a storyfag concept, but a simulationist one. I'm not claiming that Underrail did it right though.