Game News The Technology of Dragon Age II, Part 1

[FriendOfProsper]

If your arm is broken you won't care it didn't penetrate. Probably some of the old greek "leather" armor was better than chain mail. It was pretty much invulnerable to arrows (even modern longbows) and would have done much better against blunt than chain mail.

 

[commie]

In the real world blades are ineffective against well made armour whatever its design anyway.

Two-handers can cut/chop past chainmail and lamellar armor. Only plate armor is more or less completely invulnerable to slashing attacks.

Bullshit. Bullshit never changes.

Another relatively recent find that's interesting is that it seems like a quality mail provided perfectly sufficient protection against puncture, whether by arrows or spears, which is probably why bodkin arrows in the west and other exotic weapons in the east came into use at all in later periods.

Mail armour provided an effective defence against slashing blows by an edged weapon and penetration by thrusting and piercing weapons; in fact the Royal Armoury at Leeds concluded that "... it is almost impossible to penetrate using any conventional medieval weapon..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_(armour)#Effectiveness

Even some of the ancient Roman mail, alternating between riveted and solid rings in double lines, is thought to have easily rivalled that of medieval counterparts according to metallurgic findings, though blunt trauma is an entirely different matter, of course, which is likely why they came up with lorica segmentata, thought to absorb and distribute shock with less concussion than later periods' plate armours.

Hollywood and fantasy genres have produced immense amounts of bullshit to understate the level of protection armour in the old world provided.

Even the leather cuirass of the classical antiquity might have provided relatively good protection. There are still ongoing experiments to recreate such armour produced in their period's methods and so far the results aren't exactly anything like popular culture would have you believe, ie. "one slash or thrust and you're gone".

True, but also because chainmail wasn't used in isolation but was often worn over a padded tunic that absorbed a lot of the impact of a slashing blow. On the other hand, a fierce blow from a two handed sword would still fuck up the wearer of a chain mail, causing massive trauma and maybe breaking bones even if the mail itself wasn't penetrated. Therefore, chain mail is tougher than usually thought of but a person wearing it is still vulnerable to the trauma from forceful slashing attacks(never mind piercing attacks).

 

[J_C]

That fucking giant sword

The graphics could be Crysis-level that I wouldn't be able to take my eyes off the giant sword. The hilt is the size of the guy's arm.

Yes, that's pretty stupid. Have the designer thought this through? What's the point of making the hilt so damn long? Are they holding it with 6 hands? Actually Bioware probably did this so they can say, that their fantasy world is original. Afterall, they use the word ser instead of sir. Yep, originality at its best.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Don't ridges on an armor help protect against blunt weapon attacks, forming a kind of crumple zone?

Never heard of this, a link to some source would be pretty interesting. You should consider that all of these protruding elements decrease the contact area between the head of the blunt weapon an the shoulder guards though. Also, even though subtle ridges may prove beneficial, retardedly protruding shoulder guard elements may result in the generation of bending moments when hit, which may theoretically throw you off balance.

Don't have a source, but intuitively it would seem to help by elevating the contact surface away from the body. For the same reason that you wouldn't hold a shield up against your body and then let someone take a whack at you with a mace. You extend it outwards so that the impulse is distributed over a wider span of time and along a wider span of the body. Decreasing the contact area is one thing, but the force is still distributed as well or better and an angled surface is inherently stronger than a flat one.

That fucking giant sword

The graphics could be Crysis-level that I wouldn't be able to take my eyes off the giant sword. The hilt is the size of the guy's arm.

Yes, that's pretty stupid. Have the designer thought this through? What's the point of making the hilt so damn long? Are they holding it with 6 hands? Actually Bioware probably did this so they can say, that their fantasy world is original. Afterall, they use the word ser instead of sir. Yep, originality at its best.

Wasn't the same issue present with the KotOR game? I think Bioware may just not know what swords actually look like.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

It seems they increased blade length and width to make their swings easier to track with the faster combat animations. Considering that the one handed sword swinging animation looks like they're twirling tennis rackets I'm not sure it was such a good idea.

Graphics look like DA1's which were good enough for me, although they're nothing to brag about when you claim to be going for the call of duty player base.

Seeing unsheathed weapons hovering a foot away from a character's back looks out of place considering how detailed the rest of the game looks.

 

[Monocause]

I can't remember the time I've seen graphics bad enough on pre-release shots. Pre-release shots are supposed to showcase the best the game has to offer - what is this then? Both the models and the background feels insanely artificial, look at the incredibly poor lightning effects and all these straight lines that I haven't seen in games since about 2003.

Actually, if you take the models out of the screenshot you'd have a scene that could be probably rendered as well by the NWN2 engine. I'm not a graphics whore but that's just embarassing.

 

[DraQ]

clean - sterile.
pretty - teehee!
more consistent - same shit over and over.
visually striking - well my eyes *did* bleed a little, so yeah, "striking" is the word
flow great - streamlined linear shit.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

you'd have a scene that could be probably rendered as well by the NWN2 engine.

Aren't they both running renamed/souped up versions of nwn1's aurora?

 

[DraQ]

you'd have a scene that could be probably rendered as well by the NWN2 engine.

Aren't they both running renamed/souped up versions of nwn1's aurora?

I've seen much more impressive shots in Unreal Engine 1, save for the models, but they are aesthetically too shit to be an actual advantage.

 

[Leimrey]

Another relatively recent find that's interesting is that it seems like a quality mail provided perfectly sufficient protection against puncture, whether by arrows or spears

I've yet to see a video of mail preventing a bodkin to penetrate. The fact that this article states that mail provided sufficient protection against spears puts its validity under question. Some videos that demonstrate the protective capabilities of chainmail:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4gPgHyaG1Q&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-9I-Imp ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzKC3O0R ... re=related

Mail is useful only against glancing blows. It will also not stop a Longsword or a fucking Zweihander, especially when it is delivered to an advancing opponent. Also, mail provides shit protection against thrusting attacks made by most weapons, including a simple Sword.

in fact the Royal Armoury at Leeds concluded that "... it is almost impossible to penetrate using any conventional medieval weapon..."

Ehh, I'm pretty much sure bodkin arrows counted as "conventional weapons" during that time period (due to widespread use of armor) as did spears. IIRC, the rings in a chainmail were made from iron with relatively small hardness, but increased toughness (ability to resist mechanical shock without fracture), ductility and malleability (both are related to the ability to withstand deformations without fracture). This is done so that the metal of individual rings will not fracture on impact. That's very different from wrought iron used for plate armor that may have been carburised, hardened and then tempered to provide both good hardness and toughness (in the case of high quality armor suits).

TL;DR: mail wil only stop one-handed slashing weapons (a warhammer will penetrate it like butter) or glancing strikes delivered by two-handed slashing weapons.

 

[Leimrey]

but the force is still distributed as well or better and an angled surface is inherently stronger than a flat one.

Strength is not the only important factor here, the geometry of the surface is important as well. Most of the plate armors out there have spherical/rounded shoulder guards as such geometry allows the blade/blunt weapon head to slide off from ANY angle while transmitting only a fraction of its momentum to the target. This is the most significant advantage of such shape. The weapon will transmit more momentum to the target if it gets stuck in the shoulder guard somehow. Also, less deformation of armor does not necessarily equal better protection. We should not forget that part of the weapon's kinetic energy is transformed into potential energy of elastic deformation and some other part is used to produce plastic deformation. However excessive deformation of armor may be the result of greater injury than accepting a heavier blow, so that's a difficult topic.

 

[DraQ]

Yeah, mail is only good against slashing, fails against piercing (although it will stop broadhead arrows that would do much more severe damage against unprotected flesh and were used for hunting meaning they could probably be encountered as an improvised weapon of sorts) and strong enough blow with a sword will still cause a lot of damage even if it fails to penetrate. Hammers can fuck up even plate, so no contest here.

If we are talking about plate, then indeed, shapes that make it difficult to deal blow that wouldn't slide off the armour are obviously preferable.

The only way to make various protrusions and other voluminous shit useful is hypothetical armour that would rely mostly on absorbing blows, often in a destructive manner. It can happen in some fantasy universes, but should be explained, DA approach is, obviously, shit.

There is also another factor that is vital to designing an effective armour - freedom of movement.

 

[Seolas]

How can these low(er) budget European devs make games with quality graphics (Witcher II, Two Worlds II, etc.) and Bioware with its millions put out a game that looks like its from the last generation of consoles. Mass Effect 2 even looked better than DA2 visually, it is just incredibly ugly, almost offensively so.

 

[denizsi]

Here are some JewTube videos from clueless larpers who don't even know what they don't know.

Okay.

Interesting that you should say that a warhammer would penetrate mail like butter because according to one of those videos, it does not. But whatever, you are right, mail is useless, I don't know how it lasted for 2000+ years. Must have been a chic-magnet.

There is also another factor that is vital to designing an effective armour - freedom of movement.

Not this, again. Codex is very clingy about its outdated armor fantasies.

 

[Leimrey]

Here are some JewTube videos from clueless larpers

Mike Loades is a larper now? I'm sorry, but it is you who should be the object of that Cleve expression. Both the second and third videos are documentaries that warrant more respect than some dubious article from wikipedia with clearly questionable content.

Interesting that you should say that a warhammer would penetrate mail like butter because according to one of those videos, it does not.

You could've googled what a warhammer actually is and saved yourself the embarassment.

 

[DraQ]

But whatever, you are right, mail is useless, I don't know how it lasted for 2000+ years. Must have been a chic-magnet.

Against bodkins, spear or good warhammer/mace? It is.
It does shine against slashing weapons, though, and against broadhead arrows.

There is also another factor that is vital to designing an effective armour - freedom of movement.

Not this, again. Codex is very clingy about its outdated armor fantasies.

No, I don't mean that plate is bad or overly restrictive. :p

Also, I've just seen the vids - LMFAO.
Combat looks derp and technically, in terms of both eyecandy, animations and general feel is vastly inferior to the first Witcher. Also, mid '90s called, they want their weapon trails back - one thing that can be actually eliminated or rendered much more subtle (and visually pleasing) through the use of shaders and they decide to stick with conspicuous white trails and simple translucency?

The humongous sword hilts are indeed pretty derp, though I guess this kind of visual design will appeal to those tards who thought that (dawn/dusk)fang from SI was the best looking sword ever.

What is it with the retarded huge weapons, BTW? Even in Witcher they had to include Azar Javed dual wielding maces looking like fucking totem-poles.

 

[Leimrey]

Even in Witcher they had to include Azar Javed dual wielding maces looking like fucking totem-poles.

He's a sorcerer and sorcerers can do whatever the fuck they want in my book. When you see a sorcerer dual wielding two fuckhuge maces, you stand the fuck back, you stand the fuck still and hope that he doesn't put you on the list of shit he wants to fuck up today.

 

[DraQ]

Even in Witcher they had to include Azar Javed dual wielding maces looking like fucking totem-poles.

He's a sorcerer and sorcerers can do whatever the fuck they want in my book. When you see a sorcerer dual wielding two fuckhuge maces, you stand the fuck back, you stand the fuck still and hope that he doesn't put you on the list of shit he wants to fuck up today.

He still could have chosen something at least graspable to go Vilgefortz on Geralt's ass. I don't get how he even held those.

 

[dragonfk]

Ahh yessss...The fabulous times when Vilgefortz kicked Geralt ass with a stick.

As for the DA2 gameplay doesn't look promising. But I like the idea of story spanning over few years. That's the only thing that keeps my faith in this game.

 

[Phelot]

I find it hard to believe that any gaming journalist can gush about the "technology" behind this game with those screenshots. At best it maybe looks as good as Source Engine and even that is stretching it.

 

[markec]

Talk about living in denial http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/260/index/6070404/1

Also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VoZVvgtbGY

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

ffs

youtube movie 360p
did you use your phone to record that shit straight from the monitor?

 

[Phelot]

Talk about living in denial http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/260/index/6070404/1

Also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VoZVvgtbGY

I'm glad this prestigious forum doesn't tend to have 15 pages of "cool, thanks." and "Thanks, looks cool" comments every time an article is posted.

 

[racofer]

Thanks markec!

Very useful link you got there.

 

[Ruprekt]

Damn Bioware and the Jews for dragging the glorious english accent into the mud.